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View Poll Results: Which camera?
XSi 12 48.00%
30D 13 52.00%
Voters: 25. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-05-08, 09:53 PM   #1
str8flexed
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OT: Canon XSi or 30D for newbie

I wanna get a DSLR. I'm upgrading from my point and shoot so I know very little about photography.

What do you think would be better for a n00b? The Digital Rebel XSi or Canon 30D??

I've spent hours reading reviews, and would probably have to go to the store and molest both of them before I can form a better opinion, but was just wondering what ya'll thought.

Thanks!

Now, you might wonder why I'm posting this in this forum, well, that's because I figure there are more photographers in here than the other forums.

Things I like about each:

XSi:
Rebel is smaller. Means I might want to carry it with me more.
Slightly cheaper.
Newer, slightly better features like sensor cleaning, Digic III. (not a big deal in my book)

30D:
Heard the build is better. Feels more quality.
"Easier to use." (with the scroll wheel and all, and less menus to go through)(very important to me if it is actually true)
Better pentaprism viewfinder.
3200 ISO

Also, I probably would not "just get the cheaper one and a better lens", since I know nothing about lenses right now. I'll wait to upgrade the lens after I shoot a little and learn what I don't like and what I'd like in a new lens.

Last edited by str8flexed; 05-05-08 at 10:35 PM.
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Old 05-05-08, 10:05 PM   #2
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get the xsi body only and invest in a better lens, the kit lens is ok for getting started but save up for something better.
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Old 05-05-08, 10:05 PM   #3
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i shoot canon so i'll say the XTi. no reason to get the NEWEST camera. you'll save a lot by getting "last year's model". shoot, get the XT and use the rest of the money on a NICE lens. after all, it's teh glass, not the body
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Old 05-05-08, 10:12 PM   #4
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get a pentax. you'll get more features and better construction for less.

besides, neither the xti or 30d are designed as complete cameras. canon's design policy is to undermine every model just enough that you'd be driven to upgrade to the next model. thats not to say that it isn't a good camera, but before you know it you'll be trapped in a circle of dangerous advertising.

if you really know what you're doing then yeah, go for an xti or a pentax, something you can really use 100%. if you need a really awesome point and shoot which also happens to be a dslr then get a d40/50.

otherwise there are plenty of fixed lens digital cameras that will serve your needs just as well because unless you plan on making prints - the only thing you're really getting is focus speed. images for the internet more or less top off at 3mpx. anything beyond that is wasted data.
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Old 05-05-08, 10:24 PM   #5
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(edit: read my lsat edit at the bottom before the WOT, i thought you were talking about a canonXSi and the nikon D40[even though you said 30] )

i havent shot both brands dslrs, but ive been looking into buying a dslr for over a year now. with all the reviews, samples, and side by side statistics, i'd say go for the nikon. have you been to dpreview dot com?

why are there 2 people that said canon, and one say pentax, yet nikon has 3 votes and canon has zero? lol

i like nikkor lenses better than canon equivalents as well. (again, only from samples, reviews, and statistics, and in this cases, prices).

i recently owned a canon S2 IS, and had every intention of buying a rebel before i began delving into reviews for these two cameras. i would loveeeeee a D300, but i think i should get more familiar with dslr and buy the d40 instead.


EDIT: oh wow. eff it. i just realized as i typed that last "d40" what this poll was really about. snap. what a waste of time and typing XD lol

well then, let me take this time to tell you to consider a nikon.

if you're dead set on a canon, then so be it. what's your reason for picking it?

if you're not 100% positive you want a canon, consider a nikon ;D

i can get you some links if you're at all interested.

BUT i'd say the rebel before the 30D if it's your first slr if you're getting a canon

-_-

Last edited by homEsick; 05-05-08 at 10:31 PM.
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Old 05-05-08, 10:38 PM   #6
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get the xsi body only and invest in a better lens, the kit lens is ok for getting started but save up for something better.
I heard the newer 18-55 IS lens was much improved over the older lenses that came with the kits. I really don't know much about lenses right now so I think buying a "good" lens right now isn't necessary.
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Old 05-05-08, 10:38 PM   #7
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I personally have a nikon d70s, and my friend is looking for a dslr just to get into digital and doesnt want to break the bank, im recommending either a pentax or one of the new olympus cameras. I dont particularly like canon's layout of buttons or menu's. So I vote nikon, pentax or olympus, just get a good lens.
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Old 05-05-08, 10:40 PM   #8
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dont bother. once they've been lured in by canon they're usually never released.

that is of course till a camera like the d3 shows up and lays waste to canon supporters. i can't even begin to imagine the tears and sadness of 1ds owners when the d3x comes out.

i say pentax because as a 'third party' they have to try a lot harder to maintain their market share. they've offered super-bright viewfinders, enhanced waterproofing, in camera vibration reduction, and dust removal features in a 10mpx body for the same price as canon's rebel. you're getting a lot of bang for you buck.

don't be fooled into thinking that one company's glass is really any better than the others. all of these companys have been in the game for a long time. where you really see the good features are in operating system, build, and speed. none of which is worth investing in until you get up to the pro-amateur level (5d, d300/200).

now as a person who makes his living via photography it hurts to see a bunch of old men and gadget junkies with serious imaging devices. you don't know how to take advantage of what the power you've got and even if you did the subject matter being photographed would not warrant the expense. that said, we're also in a forum full of toolbags buying pro track frames and doing bunny hops in grocery market parking lots with 'em.
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Old 05-05-08, 10:42 PM   #9
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I heard the newer 18-55 IS lens was much improved over the older lenses that came with the kits. I really don't know much about lenses right now so I think buying a "good" lens right now isn't necessary.
no no no no nono no no. ITS ALWAYS ABOUT THE GLASS. cameras come and go but a good lens stays forever. foreverrrr. buying a decent camera then sticking a junky kit lens on it is like (continuing with the bike analogies) sticking 27" machine-made wheels on your njs track bike. it's stooooopid.
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Old 05-05-08, 10:43 PM   #10
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I personally have a nikon d70s, and my friend is looking for a dslr just to get into digital and doesnt want to break the bank, im recommending either a pentax or one of the new olympus cameras. I dont particularly like canon's layout of buttons or menu's. So I vote nikon, pentax or olympus, just get a good lens.
Thanks. I might go play with some of the other brands in the store. To be honest I have always been a Canon fanboy, having been through maybe 5 Canon cameras in our family.

I think that I would just subconsciously associate Canons with being better quality and I'd be most "proud" of my new DSLR if it were Canon. If I got a Nikon or something, I'd view it as an adopted child or something.
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Old 05-05-08, 10:43 PM   #11
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I agree with doomkin on about everything he says. What are you gonna be taking pictures of, do you really wanna drop the serious dough on a dslr just to take snapshots? Or are you gonna be a serious photographer? If you want a camera just to take around in your bag and take good pictures get a canon G9 or a nikon p5100 or something like that.
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Old 05-05-08, 10:47 PM   #12
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no no no no nono no no. ITS ALWAYS ABOUT THE GLASS. cameras come and go but a good lens stays forever. foreverrrr. buying a decent camera then sticking a junky kit lens on it is like (continuing with the bike analogies) sticking 27" machine-made wheels on your njs track bike. it's stooooopid.
Ya, but, its like I'm a kid who just learned how to ride a bike. Yesterday. I've never ridden fixed before. Should I buy a complete Iro or should I buy everything separately (lets say Kilo TT frame, Arrospoke', Sugino 75's, etc.)? I should probably get the complete bike and then after riding for a year or so, after appreciating riding fixed, and evidently learning about how cool the arrospoke is, finally scrounge enough money to buy one and upgrade. If I jumped right into building my own bike w/ the arrospoke, I wouldn't appreciate how cool it was.

(I wouldn't appreciate a nice lens if I just went and bought what others think is a good lens now without evening knowing why it were good)

fixedup: well, I think I would "probably" be interested in getting into photography as a hobby. I wouldn't mind spending 500-800 on something like that. Loan money is meant to be spent. I just recently broke the LCD on my point and shoot, though it still takes pictures and downloads. It'll be my ultimate beater, take-everywhere camera. But then I'd like to complement it with a nicer camera I guess, sometimes I wish I had more options. I was considering the Canon G9 but I think I would really feel short changed with that and I'd just be left wanting more. Plus it's not "cheap" either, it's still $400 or so..

However, I most likely would not become semi-pro. It would most likely remain a hobby. There is a chance that I'd just completely get bored with photography and stop, but, I hope that doesn't happen if I buy a DSLR...

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Old 05-05-08, 10:50 PM   #13
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Thanks. I might go play with some of the other brands in the store. To be honest I have always been a Canon fanboy, having been through maybe 5 Canon cameras in our family.

I think that I would just subconsciously associate Canons with being better quality and I'd be most "proud" of my new DSLR if it were Canon. If I got a Nikon or something, I'd view it as an adopted child or something.
it's all advertising dude. nikon doesnt need to constantly remind everyone that they have been the only real option for serious photographers for, oh i dont know, about 50 years. nikon F serious cameras are legendary in their longevity, mechanical quality and precision. nikon HAS ALWAYS BEEN SLOW. they do things deliberately with careful planning because when nikon releases a camera, they want that camera to last forever.

nikon has always been a camera company dedicated to serving the photographer. canon has always been about new technology - serving the engineer. canon prefers fewer buttons with more functions and more aeshetics. nikon users are the guys used to hammering tent spikes with their f3s and fingering their shutter speeds into place while laying in mud or snow so they look for cameras that are built hardy, with lots of big buttons with single functions.

canon has been on top the past few years because they play to the market. yeah, it's good business sense, but it's bad for the photographer. (read: canon doesn't care about you) nikon is willing to take a monetary hit in order to produce fewer but consistently better cameras.
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Old 05-05-08, 10:55 PM   #14
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ive heard it said that bodies are generally out of date in about 3-5 years. glass lasts 15-20.

edit: if you're not planning on making money with a camera, you need to ask yourself if you need all the lens options. if you're just taking photos for fun and don't need some higher end features, i wouldn't go beyond recommending the canon S5 IS
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Old 05-05-08, 10:55 PM   #15
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Ya, but, its like I'm a kid who just learned how to ride a bike. Yesterday. I've never ridden fixed before. Should I buy a complete Iro or should I buy everything separately (lets say Kilo TT frame, Arrospoke', Sugino 75's, etc.)? I should probably get the complete bike and then after riding for a year or so, after appreciating riding fixed, and evidently learning about how cool the arrospoke is, finally scrounge enough money to buy one and upgrade. If I jumped right into building my own bike w/ the arrospoke, I wouldn't appreciate how cool it was.

(I wouldn't appreciate a nice lens if I just went and bought what others think is a good lens now without evening knowing why it were good)
you're confusing nice with expensive here. the components on a complete bike aren't amazing, but they're strong and will hold true until the day you learn to keep a consistent 120rpm for 20 laps.

consider nikon's basic kit lens, the 18-55/3.5-5.6 vr2. stopped down it is as sharp as any of nikon's other $1500 lenses and with its 2nd generation vibration reduction allows you to shoot as much as 3 stops slower than you normally would be able to without wicked hand shake. the whole thing is the size of a medium tomato and weighs just about as much.

the consider the 17-55/2.8 dx. no vibration reduction, doubles the weight of whatever camera you put it on, is extremely large. yes, you can shoot in low light conditions and yes it's sharp when stopped down, but now you've got a chunky expensive lens you can't conveniently carry around.
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Old 05-05-08, 11:01 PM   #16
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ive heard it said that bodies are generally out of date in about 3-5 years. glass lasts 15-20.
depends on what your needs are. if you're taking pictures of the family, printing 4x6s and posting on the web, then you can get by with a 3megapixel camera from 2000 - eight years ago. if you need to be printing billboard sized prints of half naked women fighting with sharks then yeah, you might need that $35000 40megapixel medium format back for your hasselblad.

as for lenses, it's entirely the platform. none of canon's lenses older than 1990ish work with the current bodies and all their first generation AF lenses pale in comparison to the speed of the current models.

nikon's pro level bodies (d300, d3) still take all their legacy from as far back as 1930ish. i've got this sweet 85/1.2 from the 40s with wicked bokeh that i still use all the time.

leica lenses from the turn of the century still work with all their modern cameras, as does pentax's entire catalogue.

as long as you're not a photojournalist or sports photographer, most of your lenses will outlast you if you're okay with taking them to a camera repair shop once a decade.
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Old 05-05-08, 11:20 PM   #17
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if you need to be printing billboard sized prints of half naked women fighting with sharks then yeah, you might need that $35000 40megapixel medium format back for your hasselblad.
Betterlight dude, Betterlight.

EDIT:
Ok so for the mentioned situation this won't work. But its still damn cool. And I would probably go Maymia over Hasselblad any way.
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Old 05-05-08, 11:51 PM   #18
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I also tend to agree with doomkin. I personally shot Sony/minolta and I am overall happy with my choice (except for the damn noise). Minolta glass is amazing and I have a total of $170 (100mm 2.8 macro and 50mm 1.7) in to lenses not counting the kit.

I haven't look at the Pentax cameras extensively but from what I do know they are pretty nice cameras.

Check out The Photography Forum for lots of info.
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Old 05-06-08, 12:38 AM   #19
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I am with doomkin, I shoot Pentax and love the value (plus not having to get in stupid Canon/Nikon arguments all the time). The new K20D is a ton of camera for the price- you need to take a big step up to get some of those featured from Canikon. Then, dig into the vast riches of awesome Pentax glass from the days of old via eBay.
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Old 05-06-08, 01:10 AM   #20
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Make sure to look at the lens selection of each camera maker and see if the variety they have is appealing to you. For example, even though I like how nikon bodies feel in my hands, I like canon because they have good normal primes (for 1.5x) at affordable prices. I like how small the olympus E410 is, but Olympus has a really bad selection of primes.

Also, ergonomics are a large factor to you being able to have fun and feel confident with the camera. Do not overlook this, seriously. Sounds like bull, but it isn't. It sucks to use a camera that feels awkward in your hands. DSLRs in the same price bracket are often really similar, and chances are that you probably wont miss or greatly enjoy the differences between them unless you exactly know what you need and want. Just get something that feels good in your hands, has a menu that seems intuitive to you, and doesn't feel too bulky to take around with you, because what's the point of having a nice camera that you hate to take around with you.|

Then again, I don't currently own a DSLR, or a digital camera at all. I have one of these babies. And until a digital camera can be just as compact, light, fun to use, and still able to produce great results, I do not plan on buying one. Those new Oly 420s with the new 50mm pancake sound nice though.
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Old 05-06-08, 03:30 AM   #21
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i would go with the 30d, the xsi is newer beginner camera, but eventually would need to upgrade

if i had a xsi, i would eventually want to upgrade to an 40d or something.
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Old 05-06-08, 03:37 AM   #22
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Nikon
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Old 05-06-08, 06:14 AM   #23
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unless you NEED some of the features of either of the cameras you'd be best suited with an XT and a nice piece of glass. Personally I have the 20d with a nice 17-40L
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Old 05-06-08, 07:16 AM   #24
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Most of the advice in this thread is just opinion, and most of it generally should be taken with a grain of salt.

With that being said, I would suggest going to your local camera shop and holding all the models you are considering. See which one feels right in your hands, and which one has the interface that suits you.

Pentax used to make great cameras and lenses, but I really wouldn't put any amount of money into a camera system that simply prides itself on the lenses of yesteryear. As bad as it sounds, Canon and Nikon are really the only serious choices, and they are the only companies who I would even consider. Canon and Nikon both have their pros and their cons, and really it all boils down to user interface and whether or not you have some lenses from one company or the other. Nikon makes great cameras, and so does Canon. Canon makes incredibly good lenses, much better lenses than Nikon, but Nikon has the universal F mount, and they make lenses of compirable quality.

It is important to understand that you should be more concerned with lens choice. If you don't know what type of lenses you would want to get, then maybe you shouldn't be looking at DSLR's. Chances are, your point and shoot will actually suffice for quite a long time, so maybe you should reconsider your choice.

Personally, if I were in your shoes, I would buy a used 20D and buy the 17-40L. The 20D would probably even be an overkill for what you are doing. You really could probably get away with an old 300D, even. A 20D or even something lower quality, coupled with the 17-40L or any other L series lens would produce images that would be of excellent quality, and if you decide later that photography isn't your thing, you could always sell off the lens for pretty close to what you bought it for.
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Old 05-06-08, 08:32 AM   #25
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You've already picked your manufacturer, and that's fine. You've picked the right one

If i were you, and knew absolutely nothing about photography the features of a higher-end body are going to be completely lost on you. Ergonomics plays a role in what body you should get, so you really should go down to your LPS and handle them in person.

In your situation, I would buy a used XTi and a decent "normal zoom" lens (Canon 17-55 IS, Sigma 17-70, Sigma 18-50 EX Macro, Tamron 17-50 etc). Learn what you're doing and you'll eventually want to upgrade anyway. Your XTi can become your backup body when you upgrade to a 5D.

what you absolutely SHOULDN'T do now is waste your money on a fancy-ass body and a crappy lens. Good glass is what makes good pictures (well, good light and a good eye makes good pictures - but good glass really helps).
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