Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 28
  1. #1
    unaangalia nini? baiskeli's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Arlington MA
    My Bikes
    Jamis Quest (Ultegra components,Mavic Ksyrium Elite wheels and Reynods Ouzo Pro Fork), Gary Fisher Tassajara
    Posts
    1,136
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Question - Attempted fraud by restaurant or innocent mistake

    So, you eat at a nice restaurant in Montreal 3 times in a 3 day period. All is fine until you get back to Boston and look at your credit card bill. You see you got charged incorrectly on
    one of the days, once for $143 and once for $413 (both at the same day/time)

    Now, the $143 is correct, but the $413 is definitely not.

    So, rather than file a fraudulent charge with Amex, I decide to give the restaurant the benefit of the doubt and give the restaurant a call.

    Called on Monday, spoke to one of the managers, apparently someone entered the bill once and then entered it again (I don't know why) and fat fingered it and transposed the digits. Promised she would fix it and call me back the next day. No call on tuesday. I call again on wednesday, different manager and apparently the first manager never told him anything about this. He takes down the information again, promises to fix it the next day and call me. No call on Thursday.

    Friday I lose my patience, I call and speak to the same manager I spoke to on Wednesday. He tells me he is waiting for the first manager because she is the only one who can reverse the charges (huh, note there is a tiny bit of language barrier because I don't speak french and they are not very fluent in english). So I state clearly

    "I want this resolved by end of day today or I am filing a fraudulent charge claim with Amex"

    This seems to get his attention and he says they will fix it and call me by 3:00pm today. I say;

    "If I don't hear from you by 3:00pm I will go ahead and file the fraudulent charge claim with my credit card"

    So, am I a patsy for trying to first resolve it with the restaurant? Also, was the double charge an innocent mistake or do you think it was a case of a restaurant assuming that an out of towner would not be diligent enough to look at their credit card statement after the fact. I definitely will never patronize this restaurant again but I want to determine likely motive(s) so I can add it to my online restaurant review (if I think it was an innocent mistake I will leave it out, if not (and the fact that they seem not really eager to fix the problem is leaning me towards they did this on purpose) I will include it in the review and warn my friends away from the restaurant)

  2. #2
    Banned. red house's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    In the stomach of a whale. :beer:
    My Bikes
    Lemond Fillmore, Cmofalge black baby
    Posts
    5,543
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    so what you're saying is that you're 'better' than me - because you eat out at "nice" restaurants.. (?)

  3. #3
    But on the road more MTBLover's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    My Bikes
    Bianchi Volpe '07
    Posts
    863
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Who knows? That the numbers were transposed seems to suggest an innocent mistake, but that could also be a convenient cover. Personally, I'd just call American Express, and call it an apparent mistake. Let them sort it out as to whether or not it's fraud. That shouldn't be your job- it's theirs.

  4. #4
    more ape than man timmhaan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    nyc
    Posts
    8,093
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    i think you did exactly the right thing. it's best to try to resolve it first and if you can't get anywhere, then you escalate it to the CC company.

  5. #5
    GATC
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    south Puget Sound
    Posts
    6,609
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Cards always require you to talk to the vendor first so you're not a patsy for starting at the beginning of the process if that's what you're asking.

  6. #6
    more ape than man timmhaan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    nyc
    Posts
    8,093
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by red house View Post
    so what you're saying is that you're 'better' than me - because you eat out at "nice" restaurants.. (?)
    dude, be nice to him. maybe he'll toss us some scraps.

  7. #7
    unaangalia nini? baiskeli's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Arlington MA
    My Bikes
    Jamis Quest (Ultegra components,Mavic Ksyrium Elite wheels and Reynods Ouzo Pro Fork), Gary Fisher Tassajara
    Posts
    1,136
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MTBLover View Post
    Who knows? That the numbers were transposed seems to suggest an innocent mistake, but that could also be a convenient cover. Personally, I'd just call American Express, and call it an apparent mistake. Let them sort it out as to whether or not it's fraud. That shouldn't be your job- it's theirs.
    The problem is that their online system does not have an innocent mistake option, only fraudulent charge. But I just smacked myself on the head after reading your post because it never occured to me to let the cc deal with it. I'll just call the cc company, tell them what I did and let them decide whether its an innocent mistake or not.

  8. #8
    unaangalia nini? baiskeli's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Arlington MA
    My Bikes
    Jamis Quest (Ultegra components,Mavic Ksyrium Elite wheels and Reynods Ouzo Pro Fork), Gary Fisher Tassajara
    Posts
    1,136
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by red house View Post
    so what you're saying is that you're 'better' than me - because you eat out at "nice" restaurants.. (?)
    Trust me, it was a well earned vacation, and we don't eat at nice restaurants often

  9. #9
    Banned. red house's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    In the stomach of a whale. :beer:
    My Bikes
    Lemond Fillmore, Cmofalge black baby
    Posts
    5,543
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by baiskeli View Post
    Trust me, it was a well earned vacation, and we don't eat at nice restaurants often


    so... you think I do not eat at nice restaurants too? ... Yesterday for lunch - I had a mango-curry spiced swordfish dish from the buffet at the Shalimar. What did you have for lunch yesterday baiskeli? ?

  10. #10
    more ape than man timmhaan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    nyc
    Posts
    8,093
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

  11. #11
    POWERCRANK addict markhr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    North Acton, West London, UK
    Posts
    3,783
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Similar thing at the only "local" ski shop in positively alpine West London. They didn't want to know/weren't interseted even when the CC company reversed the charge.

    Never been back, never going back and definitely never recommending the shop - some companies are strange.
    shameless POWERCRANK plug
    Recommended reading for all cyclists - Cyclecraft - Effective Cycling
    Condor Cycles - quite possibly the best bike shop in London
    Don't run red lights, wear a helmet, use hand signals, get some cycle lights(front and rear) and, FFS, don't run red lights!

  12. #12
    unaangalia nini? baiskeli's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Arlington MA
    My Bikes
    Jamis Quest (Ultegra components,Mavic Ksyrium Elite wheels and Reynods Ouzo Pro Fork), Gary Fisher Tassajara
    Posts
    1,136
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by red house View Post
    so... you think I do not eat at nice restaurants too? ... Yesterday for lunch - I had a mango-curry spiced swordfish dish from the buffet at the Shalimar. What did you have for lunch yesterday baiskeli? ?
    Korean BBQ Chicken with brown rice and a glass of water from Ginger Pad.

    Ha!

  13. #13
    Senior Member EatMyA**'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    930
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    go file the claim with the cc, and tell that restaurant to eat your ass!

  14. #14
    Hey guyz? Guyz? Wait up!! Siu Blue Wind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    10,488
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by red house View Post
    so... you think I do not eat at nice restaurants too? ... Yesterday for lunch - I had a mango-curry spiced swordfish dish from the buffet at the Shalimar. What did you have for lunch yesterday baiskeli? ?
    Oh stop, RH. Leave him alone.

    I can top all of you. I had NOTHING for lunch!
    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha
    We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.
    Quote Originally Posted by making View Post
    Please dont outsmart the censor. That is a very expensive censor and every time one of you guys outsmart it it makes someone at the home office feel bad. We dont wanna do that. So dont cleverly disguise bad words.

  15. #15
    tired donnamb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Portland, OR
    My Bikes
    Breezer Uptown 8, U frame
    Posts
    5,660
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by timmhaan View Post
    i think you did exactly the right thing. it's best to try to resolve it first and if you can't get anywhere, then you escalate it to the CC company.
    I agree. And polite, too.
    "Real wars of words are harder to win. They require thought, insight, precision, articulation, knowledge, and experience. They require the humility to admit when you are wrong. They recognize that the dialectic is not about making us look at you, but about us all looking together for the truth."

  16. #16
    Banned. red house's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    In the stomach of a whale. :beer:
    My Bikes
    Lemond Fillmore, Cmofalge black baby
    Posts
    5,543
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    why is this thread rejecting my reply to baiskeli? ... There seems to be a three sentence maximum for my posts that has been put in place. How can I get around that?

  17. #17
    Senior Member peiffer83's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    My Bikes
    2007 Giant TCR A1
    Posts
    171
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    what did you leave for a tip? Hopefully not 58 cents.

  18. #18
    hello roadfix's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Los Angeles
    My Bikes
    thank you for asking
    Posts
    18,502
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I grilling some yakitori tonight.

  19. #19
    unaangalia nini? baiskeli's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Arlington MA
    My Bikes
    Jamis Quest (Ultegra components,Mavic Ksyrium Elite wheels and Reynods Ouzo Pro Fork), Gary Fisher Tassajara
    Posts
    1,136
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by peiffer83 View Post
    what did you leave for a tip? Hopefully not 58 cents.
    About 20% ($24.48 on a $118.52 bill)

  20. #20
    Senior Member thebarerider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Norman, OK
    My Bikes
    Trek520
    Posts
    471
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It must be a Canadian thing. I was recently overcharged by Arkel and it took them two weeks to get it fixed.

    Stupid Canada.






  21. #21
    Member otep12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Nutley, NJ
    Posts
    42
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Actually you should have called AMEX directly. It's no biggie I've done this a couple of times. Make AMEX work for you. If it's the vendor's fault, money goes back to your account automatically. If it's yours, they show you documentation. This is the best thing about AMEX, you can almost complain about everything and in their eyes you are always right. Unless proven otherwise.

  22. #22
    BF's Level 12 Wizard SingingSabre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    My Bikes
    Diamondback Sorrento turned Xtracycle commuter
    Posts
    1,414
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    You told them of the problem a number of times. If they haven't fixed it yet, it's gone from being a mistake to fraudulent.
    Shameless plug (my sites):
    Photography
    Vanity
    Quote Originally Posted by Bklyn
    Obviously, the guy's like a 12th level white wizard or something. His mere presence is a danger to mortals.

  23. #23
    Senior Member ryder47's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    54
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by SingingSabre View Post
    You told them of the problem a number of times. If they haven't fixed it yet, it's gone from being a mistake to fraudulent.
    Or at least incompetent. Either way let the credit card company deal with it, they'll figure it out and act accordingly.

  24. #24
    Blasted Weeds Tude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    My Bikes
    Trek 1200C, Specialized Rockhopper, Giant Yukon FX, Giant Acapulco
    Posts
    1,183
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by baiskeli View Post
    So, you eat at a nice restaurant in Montreal 3 times in a 3 day period. All is fine until you get back to Boston and look at your credit card bill. You see you got charged incorrectly on
    one of the days, once for $143 and once for $413 (both at the same day/time)

    Now, the $143 is correct, but the $413 is definitely not.

    So, rather than file a fraudulent charge with Amex, I decide to give the restaurant the benefit of the doubt and give the restaurant a call.

    Called on Monday, spoke to one of the managers, apparently someone entered the bill once and then entered it again (I don't know why) and fat fingered it and transposed the digits. Promised she would fix it and call me back the next day. No call on tuesday. I call again on wednesday, different manager and apparently the first manager never told him anything about this. He takes down the information again, promises to fix it the next day and call me. No call on Thursday.

    Friday I lose my patience, I call and speak to the same manager I spoke to on Wednesday. He tells me he is waiting for the first manager because she is the only one who can reverse the charges (huh, note there is a tiny bit of language barrier because I don't speak french and they are not very fluent in english). So I state clearly

    "I want this resolved by end of day today or I am filing a fraudulent charge claim with Amex"

    This seems to get his attention and he says they will fix it and call me by 3:00pm today. I say;

    "If I don't hear from you by 3:00pm I will go ahead and file the fraudulent charge claim with my credit card"

    So, am I a patsy for trying to first resolve it with the restaurant? Also, was the double charge an innocent mistake or do you think it was a case of a restaurant assuming that an out of towner would not be diligent enough to look at their credit card statement after the fact. I definitely will never patronize this restaurant again but I want to determine likely motive(s) so I can add it to my online restaurant review (if I think it was an innocent mistake I will leave it out, if not (and the fact that they seem not really eager to fix the problem is leaning me towards they did this on purpose) I will include it in the review and warn my friends away from the restaurant)

    Haven't read thru the responses but really - that should have been corrected that evening (I've run through some fees that were accidental - but before the end of the evening you can send through a "fix" - before closing out. So now the mistake has been made and no one has fixed and so the next day it is a real charge. Now as to the "waiting" for the first manager who is the only one who can reverse charges is most likely correct as they have to be able to access the system (I never had access) - BUT - and TRULY BUT - if you notified them immediately and now you're on a freaking waiting game of phone tag over several days?????? File charges. That's rediculous.

  25. #25
    Senior Member deraltekluge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    My Bikes
    Kona Cinder Cone, Sun EZ-3 AX
    Posts
    1,195
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by baiskeli View Post
    So, am I a patsy for trying to first resolve it with the restaurant? Also, was the double charge an innocent mistake or do you think it was a case of a restaurant assuming that an out of towner would not be diligent enough to look at their credit card statement after the fact. I definitely will never patronize this restaurant again but I want to determine likely motive(s) so I can add it to my online restaurant review (if I think it was an innocent mistake I will leave it out, if not (and the fact that they seem not really eager to fix the problem is leaning me towards they did this on purpose) I will include it in the review and warn my friends away from the restaurant)
    A possible explanation is that the charge was entered incorrectly (the $413), and then correctly (the $143) without canceling the incorrect entry...possibly because the person didn't know how to do so. Trying to correct it via the manager was definitely the right thing to do. However, the manager not knowing how to correct the situation would be rather implausible. Errors in billing happen all the time and are usually corrected without a hassle. I'd say that they either don't give a damn or are crooks, and that filing the fraud claim was the proper thing.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •