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Old 07-11-08, 09:20 AM   #1
baiskeli
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Question - Attempted fraud by restaurant or innocent mistake

So, you eat at a nice restaurant in Montreal 3 times in a 3 day period. All is fine until you get back to Boston and look at your credit card bill. You see you got charged incorrectly on
one of the days, once for $143 and once for $413 (both at the same day/time)

Now, the $143 is correct, but the $413 is definitely not.

So, rather than file a fraudulent charge with Amex, I decide to give the restaurant the benefit of the doubt and give the restaurant a call.

Called on Monday, spoke to one of the managers, apparently someone entered the bill once and then entered it again (I don't know why) and fat fingered it and transposed the digits. Promised she would fix it and call me back the next day. No call on tuesday. I call again on wednesday, different manager and apparently the first manager never told him anything about this. He takes down the information again, promises to fix it the next day and call me. No call on Thursday.

Friday I lose my patience, I call and speak to the same manager I spoke to on Wednesday. He tells me he is waiting for the first manager because she is the only one who can reverse the charges (huh, note there is a tiny bit of language barrier because I don't speak french and they are not very fluent in english). So I state clearly

"I want this resolved by end of day today or I am filing a fraudulent charge claim with Amex"

This seems to get his attention and he says they will fix it and call me by 3:00pm today. I say;

"If I don't hear from you by 3:00pm I will go ahead and file the fraudulent charge claim with my credit card"

So, am I a patsy for trying to first resolve it with the restaurant? Also, was the double charge an innocent mistake or do you think it was a case of a restaurant assuming that an out of towner would not be diligent enough to look at their credit card statement after the fact. I definitely will never patronize this restaurant again but I want to determine likely motive(s) so I can add it to my online restaurant review (if I think it was an innocent mistake I will leave it out, if not (and the fact that they seem not really eager to fix the problem is leaning me towards they did this on purpose) I will include it in the review and warn my friends away from the restaurant)
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Old 07-11-08, 09:25 AM   #2
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so what you're saying is that you're 'better' than me - because you eat out at "nice" restaurants.. (?)
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Old 07-11-08, 09:25 AM   #3
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Who knows? That the numbers were transposed seems to suggest an innocent mistake, but that could also be a convenient cover. Personally, I'd just call American Express, and call it an apparent mistake. Let them sort it out as to whether or not it's fraud. That shouldn't be your job- it's theirs.
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Old 07-11-08, 09:25 AM   #4
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i think you did exactly the right thing. it's best to try to resolve it first and if you can't get anywhere, then you escalate it to the CC company.
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Old 07-11-08, 09:26 AM   #5
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Cards always require you to talk to the vendor first so you're not a patsy for starting at the beginning of the process if that's what you're asking.
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Old 07-11-08, 09:26 AM   #6
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so what you're saying is that you're 'better' than me - because you eat out at "nice" restaurants.. (?)
dude, be nice to him. maybe he'll toss us some scraps.
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Old 07-11-08, 09:28 AM   #7
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Who knows? That the numbers were transposed seems to suggest an innocent mistake, but that could also be a convenient cover. Personally, I'd just call American Express, and call it an apparent mistake. Let them sort it out as to whether or not it's fraud. That shouldn't be your job- it's theirs.
The problem is that their online system does not have an innocent mistake option, only fraudulent charge. But I just smacked myself on the head after reading your post because it never occured to me to let the cc deal with it. I'll just call the cc company, tell them what I did and let them decide whether its an innocent mistake or not.
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Old 07-11-08, 09:30 AM   #8
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so what you're saying is that you're 'better' than me - because you eat out at "nice" restaurants.. (?)
Trust me, it was a well earned vacation, and we don't eat at nice restaurants often
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Old 07-11-08, 09:44 AM   #9
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Trust me, it was a well earned vacation, and we don't eat at nice restaurants often


so... you think I do not eat at nice restaurants too? ... Yesterday for lunch - I had a mango-curry spiced swordfish dish from the buffet at the Shalimar. What did you have for lunch yesterday baiskeli? ?
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Old 07-11-08, 09:45 AM   #10
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Old 07-11-08, 09:49 AM   #11
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Similar thing at the only "local" ski shop in positively alpine West London. They didn't want to know/weren't interseted even when the CC company reversed the charge.

Never been back, never going back and definitely never recommending the shop - some companies are strange.
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Old 07-11-08, 09:54 AM   #12
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so... you think I do not eat at nice restaurants too? ... Yesterday for lunch - I had a mango-curry spiced swordfish dish from the buffet at the Shalimar. What did you have for lunch yesterday baiskeli? ?
Korean BBQ Chicken with brown rice and a glass of water from Ginger Pad.

Ha!
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Old 07-11-08, 09:57 AM   #13
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go file the claim with the cc, and tell that restaurant to eat your ass!
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Old 07-11-08, 10:01 AM   #14
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so... you think I do not eat at nice restaurants too? ... Yesterday for lunch - I had a mango-curry spiced swordfish dish from the buffet at the Shalimar. What did you have for lunch yesterday baiskeli? ?
Oh stop, RH. Leave him alone.

I can top all of you. I had NOTHING for lunch!
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Old 07-11-08, 10:23 AM   #15
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i think you did exactly the right thing. it's best to try to resolve it first and if you can't get anywhere, then you escalate it to the CC company.
I agree. And polite, too.
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Old 07-11-08, 10:29 AM   #16
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why is this thread rejecting my reply to baiskeli? ... There seems to be a three sentence maximum for my posts that has been put in place. How can I get around that?
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Old 07-11-08, 10:33 AM   #17
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what did you leave for a tip? Hopefully not 58 cents.
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Old 07-11-08, 11:48 AM   #18
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I grilling some yakitori tonight.
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Old 07-11-08, 12:11 PM   #19
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what did you leave for a tip? Hopefully not 58 cents.
About 20% ($24.48 on a $118.52 bill)
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Old 07-11-08, 12:47 PM   #20
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It must be a Canadian thing. I was recently overcharged by Arkel and it took them two weeks to get it fixed.

Stupid Canada.





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Old 07-11-08, 02:45 PM   #21
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Actually you should have called AMEX directly. It's no biggie I've done this a couple of times. Make AMEX work for you. If it's the vendor's fault, money goes back to your account automatically. If it's yours, they show you documentation. This is the best thing about AMEX, you can almost complain about everything and in their eyes you are always right. Unless proven otherwise.
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Old 07-11-08, 04:52 PM   #22
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You told them of the problem a number of times. If they haven't fixed it yet, it's gone from being a mistake to fraudulent.
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Old 07-11-08, 06:31 PM   #23
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You told them of the problem a number of times. If they haven't fixed it yet, it's gone from being a mistake to fraudulent.
Or at least incompetent. Either way let the credit card company deal with it, they'll figure it out and act accordingly.
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Old 07-11-08, 06:41 PM   #24
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So, you eat at a nice restaurant in Montreal 3 times in a 3 day period. All is fine until you get back to Boston and look at your credit card bill. You see you got charged incorrectly on
one of the days, once for $143 and once for $413 (both at the same day/time)

Now, the $143 is correct, but the $413 is definitely not.

So, rather than file a fraudulent charge with Amex, I decide to give the restaurant the benefit of the doubt and give the restaurant a call.

Called on Monday, spoke to one of the managers, apparently someone entered the bill once and then entered it again (I don't know why) and fat fingered it and transposed the digits. Promised she would fix it and call me back the next day. No call on tuesday. I call again on wednesday, different manager and apparently the first manager never told him anything about this. He takes down the information again, promises to fix it the next day and call me. No call on Thursday.

Friday I lose my patience, I call and speak to the same manager I spoke to on Wednesday. He tells me he is waiting for the first manager because she is the only one who can reverse the charges (huh, note there is a tiny bit of language barrier because I don't speak french and they are not very fluent in english). So I state clearly

"I want this resolved by end of day today or I am filing a fraudulent charge claim with Amex"

This seems to get his attention and he says they will fix it and call me by 3:00pm today. I say;

"If I don't hear from you by 3:00pm I will go ahead and file the fraudulent charge claim with my credit card"

So, am I a patsy for trying to first resolve it with the restaurant? Also, was the double charge an innocent mistake or do you think it was a case of a restaurant assuming that an out of towner would not be diligent enough to look at their credit card statement after the fact. I definitely will never patronize this restaurant again but I want to determine likely motive(s) so I can add it to my online restaurant review (if I think it was an innocent mistake I will leave it out, if not (and the fact that they seem not really eager to fix the problem is leaning me towards they did this on purpose) I will include it in the review and warn my friends away from the restaurant)

Haven't read thru the responses but really - that should have been corrected that evening (I've run through some fees that were accidental - but before the end of the evening you can send through a "fix" - before closing out. So now the mistake has been made and no one has fixed and so the next day it is a real charge. Now as to the "waiting" for the first manager who is the only one who can reverse charges is most likely correct as they have to be able to access the system (I never had access) - BUT - and TRULY BUT - if you notified them immediately and now you're on a freaking waiting game of phone tag over several days?????? File charges. That's rediculous.
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Old 07-11-08, 10:38 PM   #25
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So, am I a patsy for trying to first resolve it with the restaurant? Also, was the double charge an innocent mistake or do you think it was a case of a restaurant assuming that an out of towner would not be diligent enough to look at their credit card statement after the fact. I definitely will never patronize this restaurant again but I want to determine likely motive(s) so I can add it to my online restaurant review (if I think it was an innocent mistake I will leave it out, if not (and the fact that they seem not really eager to fix the problem is leaning me towards they did this on purpose) I will include it in the review and warn my friends away from the restaurant)
A possible explanation is that the charge was entered incorrectly (the $413), and then correctly (the $143) without canceling the incorrect entry...possibly because the person didn't know how to do so. Trying to correct it via the manager was definitely the right thing to do. However, the manager not knowing how to correct the situation would be rather implausible. Errors in billing happen all the time and are usually corrected without a hassle. I'd say that they either don't give a damn or are crooks, and that filing the fraud claim was the proper thing.
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