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Old 08-17-08, 06:09 AM   #1
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I hate flying

So I'm currently sitting on the plane in Charlotte. Have been for about an hour and a half. Weather delays in Charlotte. Then a ground stop in Atlanta. And to top it off, I'm most likely going to miss my connection to Denver. Uggg! Just venting.
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Old 08-17-08, 06:14 AM   #2
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direct flights FTW.
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Old 08-17-08, 06:15 AM   #3
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Delta=Fail
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Old 08-17-08, 06:16 AM   #4
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I feel for ya !
I had the exact same thing happen at Charlotte 2 weeks ago but
because there was no place to let passengers off.
On a commuter jet too, so I was intimately familiar with the angry
person sitting next/on top of me.
I never ran faster in my whole life trying to make my connect when they
let us off, only to find it was moved to another gate

I hope things work for you
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Old 08-17-08, 06:31 AM   #5
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Delta=Fail
correct, but compared to KLM it's the puta madre.

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Old 08-17-08, 07:35 AM   #6
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do they have a business class lounge since you'll spend more time on the ground than flying?
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Old 08-17-08, 08:31 AM   #7
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I avoid flying unless there is literally no other way to get to the destination.

Since my wife is from Toronto, we visit there quite often, but flying means a 1 hr drive to the airport (and you need to get there at least an hour early) and once you figure in taxiing, delays, taking the bus, then subway (on the Toronto end) it ends up only saving around 2 hours over driving.

So that's about $1000 to save that two hours. Needless to say, we drive.

Of course it's cheaper to fly Southwest to Buffalo and then rent a car, but it's still more expensive than driving the whole way, and still doesn't save much time.
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Old 08-17-08, 11:08 AM   #8
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Stop complaining, you have it easy.

My 7 hour flight to New York became a 23 hour flight to New York.

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Old 08-17-08, 01:13 PM   #9
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My last flight from Milwaukee to Los Angeles went perfectly! I'm just too tall to be comfortable on any plane. Only downside.
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Old 08-17-08, 01:26 PM   #10
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Stop complaining, you have it easy.

My 7 hour flight to New York became a 23 hour flight to New York.

; )
it's what she;s good at, after all she's a liberal from whinerville.
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Old 08-17-08, 04:09 PM   #11
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Just got to my hotel. Clock it. This isn't nothing though. I have it way worse than this.
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Old 08-17-08, 05:58 PM   #12
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http://www.aopa.org/learntofly/index.html

Take the airlines out of the equation...
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Old 08-17-08, 09:07 PM   #13
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tomorrow DFW to NY to Malpensa Milano. oh boy I can't wait to spend
hours in flight. . .
American all flights, could be worse I suppose.
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Old 08-17-08, 09:17 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by ehidle View Post
http://www.aopa.org/learntofly/index.html

Take the airlines out of the equation...
It works for some with far-flung destinations that don't have airline service, but it not the solution for the vast majority of people.

Don't get me wrong, I fly my own airplane and used to fly it on trips quite a bit, but unless you want to spend a LOT of money (e.g., $75K+ per year is a good baseline cost for owning your own single-engine, instrument-capable, 200 mph airplane) and are willing to devote yourself to practically a part-time job keeping yourself trained so you can operate it safely in weather, it's virtually impossible to come close to the airlines on time and reliability on most trips. For most who do it, it is a labor of love and not a viable economic alternative to the airlines.

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Old 08-18-08, 04:57 AM   #15
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(e.g., $75K+ per year is a good baseline cost for owning your own single-engine, instrument-capable, 200 mph airplane)
That's 10x as much plane as the "vast majority" of people would even need, IMHO.

A single engine, instrument certified, 125kt plane is enough for anyone, and costs an order of magnitude less to maintain than a 200kt plane (which is a retrac with a turbo-six or a turbine and probably has pressure and a ton of other equipment that has to be maintained at great expense). Sure, there is a distance beyond which flying commercial will still be more practical, but I have yet to figure out how to get to Atlanta from Philly in less than 6 hours on a commercial airline.

KLOM -> KPDK = 6 hours door to door
KPHL -> KATL = ~13 hours door to door

Also, being a member of a flying club solves most cost-of-ownership issues for people who do not fly every single day.

There other reasons that GA is not the solution for a lot of people, but cost and time are not among them. You'll either get "the talk" or you won't
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Old 08-18-08, 05:26 AM   #16
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tomorrow DFW to NY to Malpensa Milano. oh boy I can't wait to spend
hours in flight. . .

American all flights, could be worse I suppose.
Marty
really?
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Old 08-18-08, 05:33 AM   #17
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I simply dislike the whole foolish idea of flying anywhere in a commercial aircraft. As for all the security checks and other nonsense I can do without it. As it happens I did take flying lessons in my 20 somethings, but that was different because that was like riding a motorcycle in the sky. Being jammed up in an airliner is worse than having to ride in an overcrowded bus on a wet day IMHO.
Much better to stay at home and work in my garden when it comes to flying. If I can't either walk there or ride there on my bicycle it isn't worth worrying about and I don't need to go. At least I can get a decent cup of real Ceylon tea at home and it's lovely and peaceful and stress free here.
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Old 08-18-08, 06:12 AM   #18
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better than walking...
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Old 08-18-08, 06:20 AM   #19
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The thing that puts me off wanting to fly myself is being cooped up in the cockpit for hours. Especially if I'd be flying tiny aircraft that take so much longer to get from place to place and no real room to stand up. My back cries just at the thought.

Not to mention I live on an island and I would never ever want to cross the Atlantic in anything other than a proper airliner.

I don't enjoy the process of flying but it doesn't bother me either. Certainly beats my only alternative of getting abroad -sailing. I really really really hate being on boats.
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Old 08-18-08, 06:27 AM   #20
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I simply dislike the whole foolish idea of flying anywhere in a commercial aircraft. As for all the security checks and other nonsense I can do without it. As it happens I did take flying lessons in my 20 somethings, but that was different because that was like riding a motorcycle in the sky. Being jammed up in an airliner is worse than having to ride in an overcrowded bus on a wet day IMHO.
Much better to stay at home and work in my garden when it comes to flying. If I can't either walk there or ride there on my bicycle it isn't worth worrying about and I don't need to go. At least I can get a decent cup of real Ceylon tea at home and it's lovely and peaceful and stress free here.
some of us like to experience new things. ymmv.
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Old 08-18-08, 07:56 AM   #21
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I simply dislike the whole foolish idea of flying anywhere in a commercial aircraft. As for all the security checks and other nonsense I can do without it. As it happens I did take flying lessons in my 20 somethings, but that was different because that was like riding a motorcycle in the sky. Being jammed up in an airliner is worse than having to ride in an overcrowded bus on a wet day IMHO.
Much better to stay at home and work in my garden when it comes to flying. If I can't either walk there or ride there on my bicycle it isn't worth worrying about and I don't need to go. At least I can get a decent cup of real Ceylon tea at home and it's lovely and peaceful and stress free here.
I don't have a choice in the matter as my job requires me to travel.
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Old 08-18-08, 08:43 AM   #22
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Flying is amazingly awesome. For a couple hundred bucks you get in a bid aluminum tube, close your eyes, and a couple hours later you are 1500 miles away. The food sucks. The security is absurd. The seats are uncomfortable. So what? You are flying through the air at 500 mph. It beats sitting in a car for two days.
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Old 08-18-08, 11:33 AM   #23
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That's 10x as much plane as the "vast majority" of people would even need, IMHO.

A single engine, instrument certified, 125kt plane is enough for anyone, and costs an order of magnitude less to maintain than a 200kt plane (which is a retrac with a turbo-six or a turbine and probably has pressure and a ton of other equipment that has to be maintained at great expense). Sure, there is a distance beyond which flying commercial will still be more practical, but I have yet to figure out how to get to Atlanta from Philly in less than 6 hours on a commercial airline.

KLOM -> KPDK = 6 hours door to door
KPHL -> KATL = ~13 hours door to door

Also, being a member of a flying club solves most cost-of-ownership issues for people who do not fly every single day.

There other reasons that GA is not the solution for a lot of people, but cost and time are not among them. You'll either get "the talk" or you won't
You can cherry pick some odd combo of local airports but that's not representative. The vast majority of people can get door-to-door from Philly to Atlanta via commercial airlines for way less than 13 hours. That's a ridiculous number.

A 125-knot airplane IFR airplane (e.g,. a Cessna 172) will not typically have fuel reserves to make this trip non-stop, nor will it have the altitude capability to safely fly this route in IFR conditions, nor will it have any anti-icing capabilities. This rules out flying this route for the entire winter months except in good VFR conditions and most summer afternoons will be dicey with thunderstorms. If you're not on a schedule and can pick and choose the days you fly, it is certainly doable, but that's not representative of how most people travel.

Most flying clubs don't rent IFR-capable airplanes, or if they do, they're typically larger and more expensive. I've belonged to several flying clubs and they're great for local pleasure flying, but it is very difficult to schedule a plane for a long trip and keep it for any length of time at a destination. Further, you never know what is going to wrong with the airplane when you show up for the flight and when I depart in an airplane into the clouds, I want to know exactly what is working and what is not. It just doesn't work very well for IFR trips. And if you can find a flying club with a suitable aircraft like you're talking about, then it will typically rent for around $125/hour wet with today's fuel prices. If the round-trip flight is 13 hours Hobbs time (and assuming no daily charges for layovers), then you can expect to pay around $1600 for the trip. I don't think this solves the "cost issue".

Partnerships are the way to go if you want to fly trips regularly. I've been in several and they worked out very well. The best was in a two-person Bonanza partnership and I flew this airplane all around the country. But some years I spent $50K on airplane expenses. Again, a labor of love, but NOT an effective match to the airlines in cost, dispatch reliability, or safety.

- Mark
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Old 08-18-08, 01:46 PM   #24
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Nah, I just hate airlines and will try to convince people not to fly, ESPECIALLY if they are considering Delta. Delta brings the fail. United is second, made me miss a wedding where I was supposed to meet my boyfriend's family.
Well we might as well ad US Airways to the list. They destroyed my bags last weekend, the same bag has been on a hundred flights. I asked for a baggage claim policy and they said if it has a handle or strap it's not covered

Fortunately my connection flight in Charlotte to Roanoke was late (United) b/c US Airways dropped me off with 5 minutes to spare.

Yeah I hate flying too, next week it's Portland Maine.
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Old 08-18-08, 02:08 PM   #25
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Fail.

A plane and the obscene security measures will NEVER beat a good road trip.


I'm hoping I can make it out to TX next summer on my motorcycle. It's as much about the journey as the destination (my favorite tattoo artist for more ink).
a sentiment shared by most people in TX.

Quote:
Originally Posted by huerro View Post
Flying is amazingly awesome. For a couple hundred bucks you get in a bid aluminum tube, close your eyes, and a couple hours later you are 1500 miles away. The food sucks. The security is absurd. The seats are uncomfortable. So what? You are flying through the air at 500 mph. It beats sitting in a car for two days.
or a week or two.

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