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  1. #1
    la vache fantôme phantomcow2's Avatar
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    Question regarding Genesis 2.

    I was given a copy of Genesis 2: King James Bible to read for a class. I don't know if it's the entire genesis 2; I have no knowledge of how the bible works. Anyways, the professor said to "Give it a close read." Most of this is pretty straight forward, albeit somewhat challenging to decipher the out-of-order English. My question is regarding the formation of the woman.
    My understanding is that god removed a rib from Adam, and somehow a woman was formed. Can somebody elaborate a bit on how the woman was actually formed? Why did god remove the rib from Adam to do this, when he could have easily created woman from the dust of the ground and breath life into her nostrils?

    The final line of the chapter says: "and they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed." Did god figure that because they came from the same body, they would have no reason to be ashamed of having sex, and so would propagate the species?
    And, the fact that they came from the same body would make the man more inclined to leave the nest and move out of mom and dad's place. Then, he would "Cling to his wife".

    Lastly, where does "wo" come in, when taken in context of the word "woman"? It says "she shall be called woman, because she was taken out of man." How does that work? It wouldn't occur me to add "wo" as a prefix.

    Thoughtful responses which are backed by knowledge are appreciated. Dumb responses are condemned by god.
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  2. #2
    Immoderator KrisPistofferson's Avatar
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    It's Bronze Age mythology, dude, it really doesn't have to make sense. If I wasn't familiar with your posts and how you seem very similar personality-wise to Lt. Commander Data, I'd say you were trolling a bit.
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  3. #3
    Overacting because I can SpongeDad's Avatar
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    They weren't ashamed because they had no sin. Sex between a married couple is essentially (if not literally) a sacrament and a gift from God (per Augustine), and therefore not shameful.

    Lust is a sin, which by definition derives from the original sin. Shame is a reaction to our fallen nature, including lust.

    Short answer: Pre-fall, everything is good; post-fall, life sucks and then you die.
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  4. #4
    Riding Heaven's Highways on the grand tour ModoVincere's Avatar
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    My take...its a story and is meant to tell us something, not to be taken literally. It also shows the interconnectedness of man and woman....how we are made from the same.
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  5. #5
    la vache fantôme phantomcow2's Avatar
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    Thanks for the responses. I like the idea of showing the interconnectedness of the genders.
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  6. #6
    Fax Transport Specialist black_box's Avatar
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    the argument for adding 'wo' to 'man' requires the assumption that they spoke english back then, right? Otherwise, i would say woe to man, woeman, woman.

  7. #7
    Riding Heaven's Highways on the grand tour ModoVincere's Avatar
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    I've said "wo....man" many a times when an attractive female walks by.
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  8. #8
    riding once again jschen's Avatar
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    PC2, some literary freedom is implicit, if for no other reason because Genesis 2 is a creation story, as is Genesis 1. (Also, you may have only Genesis 2, but it's really not that hard to find Genesis 1 and Genesis 3 out there.) Also, keep in mind the original is in Hebrew, so the likeness of the words "woman" and "man" refers to the words in Hebrew, not in English.

    Woman comes from the rib (or side) of man to stand beside man, not from his feet to be subservient to him or from his head to rule over him. This likeness is what makes woman a suitable helper for man after none of the other creatures (the ones raised from the dust of the ground and into which life was breathed) were found suitable.

    Woman and man are naked and unashamed because they know no shame. There is no sin yet, and thus there is nothing to be ashamed of. In Genesis 3, woman and man both eat from the forbidden fruit, and their eyes were opened (clearly figuratively since woman saw the fruit before that) and they realized nakedness and made coverings. This nakedness is representative of things one wants to hide, i.e. sin and shame.

    PC2, I assume this careful reading is for a literature class. If so, whether or not you choose to believe the contents, you must treat it as literature, not as an engineering textbook. If you get the idea from reading this that you shall pull out one of your ribs in order to engineer your future wife, and she shall be called wophantomcow2, and you two shall run around naked until after eating some fruit, then you're doing something wrong.
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  9. #9
    Immoderator KrisPistofferson's Avatar
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    Also, it's usually referred to as "Second Genesis," so as not to make it sound like a sci-fi novel.

    For the man, wo-man thing, that's just us putting it into English, you'd probably need to get into the original Hebrew to look deeper into the answer to this.*

    (*Just don't get too transfixed, it's no different than Odin and his brothers killing the frost giant Ymir to create the world, it's mythology. Just because a lot of gullible people believe it doesn't mean you should feel obligated to.)
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  10. #10
    ....gets the cheese Second Mouse's Avatar
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    Curious as to what class this assignment was for. Prying, probably.

  11. #11
    la vache fantôme phantomcow2's Avatar
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    This is actually not for a literature class. This for a class called 'Cue for passion', basically a course emphasizing persuasive writing and speaking, which all students must take.
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    Banned. red house's Avatar
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    How do we know that Adam was not a black man? -?

  13. #13
    Riding Heaven's Highways on the grand tour ModoVincere's Avatar
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    or asian?
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  14. #14
    L T X B O M P F A N S R apricissimus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by red house View Post
    How do we know that Adam was not a black man? -?
    Duh...


  15. #15
    Banned. red house's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantomcow2 View Post
    I was given a copy of Genesis 2: King James Bible to read for a class. I don't know if it's the entire genesis 2; I have no knowledge of how the bible works. Anyways, the professor said to "Give it a close read." Most of this is pretty straight forward, albeit somewhat challenging to decipher the out-of-order English. My question is regarding the formation of the woman.
    My understanding is that god removed a rib from Adam, and somehow a woman was formed. Can somebody elaborate a bit on how the woman was actually formed? Why did god remove the rib from Adam to do this, when he could have easily created woman from the dust of the ground and breath life into her nostrils?

    The final line of the chapter says: "and they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed." Did god figure that because they came from the same body, they would have no reason to be ashamed of having sex, and so would propagate the species?
    And, the fact that they came from the same body would make the man more inclined to leave the nest and move out of mom and dad's place. Then, he would "Cling to his wife".

    Lastly, where does "wo" come in, when taken in context of the word "woman"? It says "she shall be called woman, because she was taken out of man." How does that work? It wouldn't occur me to add "wo" as a prefix.

    Thoughtful responses which are backed by knowledge are appreciated. Dumb responses are condemned by god.




    uhm.. dood... fyi; it's not based on an 'actual' event btw... don't expect it to make sense, and if you want to make some sense of it -- then it is entirely up to you to come up with some interpretation that you find satisfactory. We really have no idea what they were thinking or what types of substance abuse - might have inspired such a bunch of incoherent non-sense about man having possessed an extra rib - or that the first woman was made from his non-existent spare... Just keep reading, it's really not 'that' deep (or at least - it was never intended to be). It's a simple story - from a simpler time - from simple minded ppl.

  16. #16
    J3L 2404 gbcb's Avatar
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    Jason's right about remembering this was not originally written in English. A lot of (all?) the names in the Old Testament particularly are imbued with many levels of meaning, most of which have been lost in translation. At most we English speakers can pick up on names like "Peter" (meaning rock), which explains the whole "you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church" bit. I bet the whole wo-man thing was a laugh riot in Hebrew

    I took a course in high school that approached the Bible as a work of literature... I foudn it really interesting to approach in an analytical way, regardless of my opinions about it.

    On a sort-of-related note, the etymology of "woman" in English is actually quite interesting too... If I remember correctly from what an English geek friend of mine told me (and any English geeks are welcome to correct me ), "man" was the Old English word for a human of any kind, and the prefix "wif" was added to refer to women. I think he said it shares a root with the world "weave", which is one of the things women did in early Anglo-Saxon society.

    Anyway, interesting this is for a persuasive writing/speaking course. Did they say why they chose this particular book?

  17. #17
    L T X B O M P F A N S R apricissimus's Avatar
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    phantomcow2,

    Regarding your sig, weren't C prompts usually C:\> ?

    It's been a while. Maybe there were variants. And I'm no expert.

  18. #18
    Senior Member deraltekluge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantomcow2 View Post
    I was given a copy of Genesis 2: King James Bible to read for a class. I don't know if it's the entire genesis 2
    Read it here or you could compare it with more modern language here. If you'd like to try additional Bibles, you might also look at this or this.

    Compare Genesis 1 with Genesis 2, and pay particular attention to the order in which the various items and creatures are created according to the two versions.

  19. #19
    phony collective progress x136's Avatar
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    Huh, I initially assumed this thread would be about something else.

    Genesis:


    Genesis II:


    Genesis 3:

  20. #20
    la vache fantôme phantomcow2's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies, folks. Apparently (according to an inside source) my professor is going be asking if males have one less rib than females because of this.
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  21. #21
    Riding Heaven's Highways on the grand tour ModoVincere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantomcow2 View Post
    Thanks for the replies, folks. Apparently (according to an inside source) my professor is going be asking if males have one less rib than females because of this.
    no....physically taking a rib from a man does not change the DNA of that man. Also, that question seems to suppose an actual physical event taking place rather than a story with points being made.
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  22. #22
    The Site Administrator: Currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes,please contact my assistnt admins for forum issues Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
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    Genesis:2 is about loss of innocence is all. It's a metaphor, PC.
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  23. #23
    I... Don't care. nekohime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by x136 View Post
    Huh, I initially assumed this thread would be about something else.

    Genesis:


    Genesis II:


    Genesis 3:
    You know I thought it would be this too. Oh, the geekery.
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  24. #24
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    it's just a bunch of crap some guerilla movement used to create an uprising and then some bunch of kings used it control people, let preists **** boys and torture men, and as an excuse to kill and take the land of those they did not like. that's all.

    wow, there was a genesis 3?

  25. #25
    Footballus vita est iamlucky13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantomcow2 View Post
    I was given a copy of Genesis 2: King James Bible to read for a class. I don't know if it's the entire genesis 2; I have no knowledge of how the bible works.
    I think the serious responses that were given should set you on the right track.

    Regarding "how the Bible works," it's arranged into books that procede more or less chronologically. The division into books is based sometimes on author, sometimes timeline, sometimes on who knows what. Each book is broken down into chapters, which are pretty short. Genesis 2 would imply the 2nd chapter of the book of Genesis.

    Quote Originally Posted by goldfishin
    it's just a bunch of crap some guerilla movement used to create an uprising and then some bunch of kings used it control people, let preists **** boys and torture men, and as an excuse to kill and take the land of those they did not like. that's all.
    Have anything either insightful, interesting, or accurate to contribute?
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