Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Foo Off-Topic chit chat with no general subject.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-23-08, 07:11 PM   #1
Kommisar89
Bottecchia fan
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Bikes: 1959 Bottecchia Professional (frame), 1966 Bottecchia Professional (in progress...), 1971 Bottecchia Professional (frame), 1973 Bottecchia Gran Turismo, 1974 Bottecchia Special (in progress...), 1977 Bottecchia Special (frame), 1974 Peugeot UO-8
Posts: 3,425
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Any dentists out there? Why do I need root canal and a crown?

Just wondering. 25 years ago I had nasty cavity on one of my molars. The dentist drilled and filled it and we called it good. Yesterday that filling came out so I went to the dentist today for a new filling. She says I need a root canal and a crown. Why is that? Nothing seems to have happened to it in the mean time. I have no pain or sensitivity. There is simply a hole in my tooth where the original dentist drilled it 25 years ago. I'm not sure why she can't just fill it again and we'll worry about it in another 25 years. She didn't do a very good job of explaining it.
__________________
1959 Bottecchia Professional (frame), 1966 Bottecchia Professional, 1971 Bottecchia Professional (frame),
1973 Bottecchia Gran Turismo, 1974 Bottecchia Special, 1977 Bottecchia Special (frame),
1974 Peugeot UO-8, 1988 Panasonic PT-3500, 2002 Bianchi Veloce, 2004 Bianchi Pista
Kommisar89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-08, 07:13 PM   #2
Indy_Rider
Banned
 
Indy_Rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: On a boat
Bikes: 2000 Fisher Paragon, 2005 Giant OCR2, 2006 Bianchi SASS, numerous others
Posts: 56
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You don't brush well or floss.

When fillings go bad and are not replaced in time they can crack the tooth. That can effect the nerves then. I had to get an inlay because of this.
Indy_Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-08, 07:19 PM   #3
fuzzbox
Your imaginary friend.
 
fuzzbox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Wandering aimlessly.
Bikes: A sweet Quamen ATL custom, GT Mach 2
Posts: 2,210
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Either what he said or she just wants your money. You should probably check that out with other dentists a lot of em just say you have cavities even though you don't just to get your money.
__________________

Every passing minute is another chance to turn it all around.
fuzzbox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-08, 07:21 PM   #4
Indy_Rider
Banned
 
Indy_Rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: On a boat
Bikes: 2000 Fisher Paragon, 2005 Giant OCR2, 2006 Bianchi SASS, numerous others
Posts: 56
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzbox View Post
Either what he said or she just wants your money. You should probably check that out with other dentists a lot of em just say you have cavities even though you don't just to get your money.
Mine shows me on the x-ray and with a camera on a video monitor. If it is that bad, it should be pretty obvious.
Indy_Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-08, 07:51 PM   #5
-=(8)=-
♋ ☮♂ ☭ ☯
 
-=(8)=-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: 40205 'ViLLeBiLLie
Bikes: Sngl Spd's, 70's- 80's vintage, D-tube Folder
Posts: 7,903
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The new status-quo for dentists is to snatch all of your
insurance money possibly in the first visit, two at the most.
Its almost impossible to say 'just fix the bad tooth' because that
doesnt coincide with 'The Plan' .
-=(8)=- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-08, 09:08 PM   #6
peabodypride
No plan.
 
peabodypride's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: PA
Bikes:
Posts: 2,744
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If the filling is removed and the nerve is exposed, there's a good possibility of it getting infected and a root canal basically scrapes out the nerves and fills it with some putty. I chipped my front tooth in half last summer and had to have it done.

Basically if the hole is exposed you could be in trouble. But it might not actually be infected and you might not need a root canal. It's true that a root canal is a multi-thousand dollar procedure and some dentists love money. Even with insurance mine was a few hundred out of pocket.
peabodypride is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-08, 09:18 PM   #7
Kommisar89
Bottecchia fan
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Bikes: 1959 Bottecchia Professional (frame), 1966 Bottecchia Professional (in progress...), 1971 Bottecchia Professional (frame), 1973 Bottecchia Gran Turismo, 1974 Bottecchia Special (in progress...), 1977 Bottecchia Special (frame), 1974 Peugeot UO-8
Posts: 3,425
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Well, I won't claim to be the best at dental hygene but I've been to the dentist (not this one) regularly for checkups, cleanings, etc. and was never told there was anything wrong with this filling. It just came out yesterday and I picked up the phone and made the appointment for today.

She showed me the x-ray and a lovely high tech picture of the tooth. Doesn't mean much to me. I'm not a dentist. It looks bad. I would imagine (though obviously I have no way of actually knowing) that the x-ray would have looked equally bad 25 years ago when the last dentist fixed it. I could glue the filling back in place and it would look the same as it did yesterday or last year or 5 years ago.

What I think her logic is, is that she has to clean up the tooth now before should could refill it and that would involve the removal of some material which would then either get too close to the nerve or not leave enough material to fill but she didn't really say that. I just wish dentists (and medical professionals in general) would explain what it is they want to do and why and what other options there might be.
__________________
1959 Bottecchia Professional (frame), 1966 Bottecchia Professional, 1971 Bottecchia Professional (frame),
1973 Bottecchia Gran Turismo, 1974 Bottecchia Special, 1977 Bottecchia Special (frame),
1974 Peugeot UO-8, 1988 Panasonic PT-3500, 2002 Bianchi Veloce, 2004 Bianchi Pista
Kommisar89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-08, 09:22 PM   #8
fuzzbox
Your imaginary friend.
 
fuzzbox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Wandering aimlessly.
Bikes: A sweet Quamen ATL custom, GT Mach 2
Posts: 2,210
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Did you ask? Always ask. If there is still a hole there you can go to some convenient store and pick up a do it yourself filling thing. It is only temporary.
__________________

Every passing minute is another chance to turn it all around.
fuzzbox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-08, 09:23 PM   #9
Kommisar89
Bottecchia fan
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Bikes: 1959 Bottecchia Professional (frame), 1966 Bottecchia Professional (in progress...), 1971 Bottecchia Professional (frame), 1973 Bottecchia Gran Turismo, 1974 Bottecchia Special (in progress...), 1977 Bottecchia Special (frame), 1974 Peugeot UO-8
Posts: 3,425
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by peabodypride View Post
If the filling is removed and the nerve is exposed, there's a good possibility of it getting infected and a root canal basically scrapes out the nerves and fills it with some putty. I chipped my front tooth in half last summer and had to have it done.

Basically if the hole is exposed you could be in trouble. But it might not actually be infected and you might not need a root canal. It's true that a root canal is a multi-thousand dollar procedure and some dentists love money. Even with insurance mine was a few hundred out of pocket.
My point exactly - the nerve is not exposed and she even said that. There is no pain or sensitivity and I can eat or drink hot or cold food with no problem. If not for the fact that I can feel it with my tongue I wouldn't even realize it had come out. And yes, the root canal and crown together are almost $500 after insurance.
__________________
1959 Bottecchia Professional (frame), 1966 Bottecchia Professional, 1971 Bottecchia Professional (frame),
1973 Bottecchia Gran Turismo, 1974 Bottecchia Special, 1977 Bottecchia Special (frame),
1974 Peugeot UO-8, 1988 Panasonic PT-3500, 2002 Bianchi Veloce, 2004 Bianchi Pista
Kommisar89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-08, 09:25 PM   #10
Minesbroken
It is what it is...
 
Minesbroken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Long Island NY
Bikes: Trek 6500 w/ stuff
Posts: 806
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
because they can charge more for a crown and a root canal then a filling?

doesnt take a dentist to figure that out lol...
__________________
sign here so we can do stuff to your stuff...

myspace
myplace
my bike
Minesbroken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-08, 09:26 PM   #11
Kommisar89
Bottecchia fan
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Bikes: 1959 Bottecchia Professional (frame), 1966 Bottecchia Professional (in progress...), 1971 Bottecchia Professional (frame), 1973 Bottecchia Gran Turismo, 1974 Bottecchia Special (in progress...), 1977 Bottecchia Special (frame), 1974 Peugeot UO-8
Posts: 3,425
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minesbroken View Post
because they can charge more for a crown and a root canal then a filling?

doesnt take a dentist to figure that out lol...
Kinda what I was thinking...
__________________
1959 Bottecchia Professional (frame), 1966 Bottecchia Professional, 1971 Bottecchia Professional (frame),
1973 Bottecchia Gran Turismo, 1974 Bottecchia Special, 1977 Bottecchia Special (frame),
1974 Peugeot UO-8, 1988 Panasonic PT-3500, 2002 Bianchi Veloce, 2004 Bianchi Pista
Kommisar89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-08, 09:30 PM   #12
Minesbroken
It is what it is...
 
Minesbroken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Long Island NY
Bikes: Trek 6500 w/ stuff
Posts: 806
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kommisar89 View Post
Kinda what I was thinking...
I found out last week that if I go into my dentists office for a "deep cleaning" ultrasonic under the gums type deal...if I pay cash they charge 600 dollars...If they charge my insurance its 1200 dollars...no wonder its hard to find dental insurance.
dentists take advantage wherever they can.
only doctors and dentists can make 1200 dollars in an hour... 8 hours a day.
__________________
sign here so we can do stuff to your stuff...

myspace
myplace
my bike
Minesbroken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-08, 09:36 PM   #13
fuzzbox
Your imaginary friend.
 
fuzzbox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Wandering aimlessly.
Bikes: A sweet Quamen ATL custom, GT Mach 2
Posts: 2,210
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
They told me I had 6 cavaties in the making but nothing ever happened.
__________________

Every passing minute is another chance to turn it all around.
fuzzbox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-08, 09:37 PM   #14
Minesbroken
It is what it is...
 
Minesbroken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Long Island NY
Bikes: Trek 6500 w/ stuff
Posts: 806
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzbox View Post
They told me I had 6 cavaties in the making but nothing ever happened.

thats because they want to wait till you need a root canal and crowns..
__________________
sign here so we can do stuff to your stuff...

myspace
myplace
my bike
Minesbroken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-08, 09:39 PM   #15
fuzzbox
Your imaginary friend.
 
fuzzbox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Wandering aimlessly.
Bikes: A sweet Quamen ATL custom, GT Mach 2
Posts: 2,210
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
worst part it was a brother of a family member's boss.
__________________

Every passing minute is another chance to turn it all around.
fuzzbox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-08, 09:40 PM   #16
Minesbroken
It is what it is...
 
Minesbroken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Long Island NY
Bikes: Trek 6500 w/ stuff
Posts: 806
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
those are the worst kind because they dont think you will go anywhere else...
__________________
sign here so we can do stuff to your stuff...

myspace
myplace
my bike
Minesbroken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-08, 09:47 PM   #17
fuzzbox
Your imaginary friend.
 
fuzzbox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Wandering aimlessly.
Bikes: A sweet Quamen ATL custom, GT Mach 2
Posts: 2,210
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yep, but we said bye to him after all his screw ups.
__________________

Every passing minute is another chance to turn it all around.
fuzzbox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-08, 09:48 PM   #18
Minesbroken
It is what it is...
 
Minesbroken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Long Island NY
Bikes: Trek 6500 w/ stuff
Posts: 806
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
smart move...never use someone you know for an important service...
__________________
sign here so we can do stuff to your stuff...

myspace
myplace
my bike
Minesbroken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-08, 12:44 AM   #19
Tude 
Blasted Weeds
 
Tude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Rochester, NY
Bikes: Trek 1200C, Specialized Rockhopper, Giant Yukon FX, Giant Acapulco
Posts: 1,182
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I re-wrote this a few times, mostly cause what I wrote was angry and didn't want to get the wrong impression. It seems that (from my interviews anyway) most people are OK with dentists - I do not do well with them at all. While I am good at handling pain, I do not do well with my jaw I guess, and so I'm a freaking wimp.

So. In knowing this - and having been thru a couple of things due to an accident (being shoved out a door and landing face first onto a sidewalk is not the nicest of things) and now knowing I have to have more stuff done because of that - and have put it off for a bit - mainly to stockpile some money.

Go get some estimates - and more than three too. Prices are all over the place as well as their quality, the labs they use, etc, etc, etc.
__________________
Tude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-08, 01:01 AM   #20
Tude 
Blasted Weeds
 
Tude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Rochester, NY
Bikes: Trek 1200C, Specialized Rockhopper, Giant Yukon FX, Giant Acapulco
Posts: 1,182
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kommisar89 View Post
My point exactly - the nerve is not exposed and she even said that. There is no pain or sensitivity and I can eat or drink hot or cold food with no problem. If not for the fact that I can feel it with my tongue I wouldn't even realize it had come out. And yes, the root canal and crown together are almost $500 after insurance.
My company's dental policy is nothing, but I do have a sideplan where I can have X amount of money (minor) taken out of each paycheck and put into a "reserve" - for anything medical, etc - or dental - so needless to say I have done that.

One dentist, and I'd like to say moron - and yet she was not - shoot she has the degree and the practice and I do not, or her grodie pet of a hygenist - who quoted me price of $3,500 for a root canal and crown on a molar. And this was after I sat thru the x-rays, forms, etc - and then had grodie come in and initially examine me - and I could see the xrays where it was obvious where the problem was, and I told her to not, NOT use the PICK as it was sensitive - so instead she whips the pick tool around and wonks the handle on my tooth - which sent me to the roof. THE HANDLE!

Said wtf a couple times - and looked at her and said WTF! DO NOT DO THAT AGAIN - told you it was sensitive (I mean a tooth if it's in trouble is sensitive - it's freaking small enough so that you don't have to know what freaking left/right/north/south effin quadrant it is - X-RAYS!! - SO I settle back - and grodie did the same dam thing and wonked my tooth on the same dam spot. Swore at her and yanked my bib, etc off and stalked out.

Main dentist came rushing out into the waiting area and I was pissed as I was paying for my time there including x-rays - which I took with me - and that's when she came up with the $3,500 quote. Speechless (or unless I said No effin way or something like that) - I left.

Get quotes, and definitely get them from dentists who have good references too - I went to that dentist for a quote based on my mother's advice from one of her affluent clients. I wouldn't recommend that place to anyone.
__________________

Last edited by Tude; 10-24-08 at 01:04 AM.
Tude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-08, 05:45 AM   #21
Minesbroken
It is what it is...
 
Minesbroken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Long Island NY
Bikes: Trek 6500 w/ stuff
Posts: 806
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tude View Post
I re-wrote this a few times, mostly cause what I wrote was angry and didn't want to get the wrong impression. It seems that (from my interviews anyway) most people are OK with dentists - I do not do well with them at all. While I am good at handling pain, I do not do well with my jaw I guess, and so I'm a freaking wimp.

So. In knowing this - and having been thru a couple of things due to an accident (being shoved out a door and landing face first onto a sidewalk is not the nicest of things) and now knowing I have to have more stuff done because of that - and have put it off for a bit - mainly to stockpile some money.

Go get some estimates - and more than three too. Prices are all over the place as well as their quality, the labs they use, etc, etc, etc.
Angry? you? I dont believe it...
__________________
sign here so we can do stuff to your stuff...

myspace
myplace
my bike
Minesbroken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-08, 06:12 AM   #22
AnthonyG
Senior Member
 
AnthonyG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Queanbeyan, Australia.
Bikes:
Posts: 3,686
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 71 Post(s)
Root canals are NOT recommended.

I had a root canal done years ago and it made me VERY sick for a couple of reasons. I so wish that I had just had it removed back then and last year I eventually had it completely removed. Now I think the principle reason why this root canal made me so sick was that it was FULL of dental amalgam which is about 50% mercury. I had a few other amalgam fillings which weren't good for my health but this root canal was the last and the biggest and my health just plummeted in free fall after I had it in although at the time I didn't know that it was the cause.

I had all the mercury removed 5-6 years ago including from the root canal and that was the start of my healing journey which I'm still on. I was reading a lot of negative articles about root canals so I decided that I would just have it removed rather than repaired further. I can't say that I noticed the biggest difference in the world after its removal and recovery from removal but I did feel somewhat better afterwards.

I would tell the dentist that you won't go for a root canal and ask her to repair it the best she can. If it comes down to it I would have it removed first, especially if she's planning on using amalgam. It is possible that she will recommend amalgam for such a large filling however the larger the filling required the more poisonous amalgam is.

Don't go down that road. The possible cosmetic loss of a tooth is NOTHING compared to the possible downside to your health. The molar I had removed is a back one anyway so its not visible.

Here's one article, http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...al-health.aspx

Anthony
AnthonyG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-08, 08:42 PM   #23
mrt10x
Dumb@s$ Jarhead
 
mrt10x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Woodland Park CO
Bikes: Calfee Dragon Fly Pro 1984 Pinarello Montello
Posts: 1,110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I had a dentist recommend a root canal for almost the exact same reason (cracked the old filling chewing ice) 5 years ago... and this was military so no money involved... I said I would wait it out until I actually felt some pain... 5 years and waiting.
__________________
Si vis pacem, para bellum
mrt10x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-08, 08:54 PM   #24
MTBLover
But on the road more
 
MTBLover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Bikes: Bianchi Volpe '07
Posts: 864
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I had an old filling on a lower molar fall out (I actually didn't even know it until I went in for a routine checkup!). Anyway, my dentist was very straightforward with me- he said there was a real possibility that I'd need a root canal, but he would see what he could do to avoid that. I had a fair amount of decay that was VERY close to the nerve, but after a lot of lidocaine and very careful drilling on his part, we avoided the root canal. Bless his heart- he went on to get advanced training in endodontia (they're the guys who do root canals), and my new dentist is every bit as conservative as he is. Like Tude and others have said, if you're uncomfortable with the way your dentist is approaching your situation, definitely shop around- get another opinion or three. It's YOUR tooth.
MTBLover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-08, 05:53 PM   #25
Allen
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 4,751
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyG View Post
Root canals are NOT recommended.

I had a root canal done years ago and it made me VERY sick for a couple of reasons. I so wish that I had just had it removed back then and last year I eventually had it completely removed. Now I think the principle reason why this root canal made me so sick was that it was FULL of dental amalgam which is about 50% mercury. I had a few other amalgam fillings which weren't good for my health but this root canal was the last and the biggest and my health just plummeted in free fall after I had it in although at the time I didn't know that it was the cause.

I had all the mercury removed 5-6 years ago including from the root canal and that was the start of my healing journey which I'm still on. I was reading a lot of negative articles about root canals so I decided that I would just have it removed rather than repaired further. I can't say that I noticed the biggest difference in the world after its removal and recovery from removal but I did feel somewhat better afterwards.

I would tell the dentist that you won't go for a root canal and ask her to repair it the best she can. If it comes down to it I would have it removed first, especially if she's planning on using amalgam. It is possible that she will recommend amalgam for such a large filling however the larger the filling required the more poisonous amalgam is.

Don't go down that road. The possible cosmetic loss of a tooth is NOTHING compared to the possible downside to your health. The molar I had removed is a back one anyway so its not visible.

Here's one article, http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...al-health.aspx

Anthony
Sorry Anthony, but the above is horrible advice.
A root canal and amalgam are apples and oranges, one is the removal of a nerve the other is a filling material now in decline. There is almost no mercury that leaches from amalgam material, and there is no good science to prove otherwise. Recommending someone to have their tooth removed is just poor advice all around, they do not grow back.
Allen is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:51 PM.