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Old 07-30-09, 08:41 AM   #76
gbcb
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And remember that even if you're a buggy-whip maker or some other relic of the past (like, say a journalist), there may still be opportunities making buggy whips or newspapers for niche audiences. My magazine, for instance, is hiring.
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Old 08-13-09, 01:38 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Mr. Markets View Post
I have always had a saying about employment markets:

Employers first like to hire the "best of the best"
Then they fill in with the "best of the rest"
And finally, they get down to the "rest of the rest"
When they have to cut back, it goes in reverse order.

If you are the first one out, and you were not the last one in, you better figure out how you
fit into those categories and why. It may not help with the reference this time around, but it
sure will help when you get that new position.

Another saying I have always had is "attitude is 80% of every job"
No one wants to work with a genius with a chit attitude, but anyone will step up to help train
someone who is sharp and willing and friendly all the time.

Finally...

Keep in mind the job market is always in flux. Yes, some jobs disappear forever (like buggy whip
makers), but many jobs that go have transferrable skills. It really is a full-time job to get a full-time
job so keep at it and network network network.
That's not the whole picture. I was a consultant at a software company that got bought by a bigger software company. I was laid off with many of my colleagues; while the observation that employers keep the "best of the best" is generally true, in this case they targeted consultants in markets where the sales guys were not making their quotas, and consequently not generating work for the consultants. They did keep some of the "rock stars", but I later found out that they also retained some H1B visa holders who were making less money. This group were by no means the "best of the best".
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Old 08-20-09, 08:36 AM   #78
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Mac Cheese and ramen. A lot can be done with ramen.
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Old 10-01-09, 07:57 PM   #79
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Never
Never
Never give up

I got hired today- two days short of 6 months without work... and I wasn't eligible for unemployment.
Keep working and talking to everyone you can. You'll get there.
so, it turns out that post from june was a false-start... the job folded and blew away before the first day.
getting a job is one thing, getting paid is another.

However, today was a better day than that.
(Cross Posted from my celebration thread)

A brief note:
I got a job in my field (albeit a month-to-month contract position) a little over a month ago.
I just got my first paycheck since January 15th, 2009...

I feel like the richest man in the world.

In case you needed a reason to rejoice tonight - feel free to rejoice with me?

again for those as may need the encouragement-
Never, Never, Never give up.
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Old 10-02-09, 10:31 AM   #80
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Don't take the first job offered to you. I did, what a HUGE mistake!
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Old 10-10-09, 08:02 PM   #81
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...and now my husband was laid off yesterday!
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Old 10-26-09, 09:05 PM   #82
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yup, work is work at this point. over the years I watched many a person run out their unemployment,
turning down jobs, only to get desperate and all right AFTER their UI was gone. If you gotta start
dipping into savings, you gotta start jettisoning the old life way sooner than later. Economists like
to joke about the saying "this time it's different" when people start to say it, but truly, THIS time it
REALLY IS different.

We are in a 'balance sheet recession', not your ordinary inventory supply downturn. This is the ki8nd
of downturn where everyone is forced to rebuild their balance sheets and pay down debt. And all
the government spending in the world is not gonna fix those problems. If anything, it will make them
worse.

SO, if you are one of those people who has too much debt, too littl savings, and selling the car, boat,
RV, house, whatever will lessen the monthly nut, by all means do it EARLY in the unemployment
process this time around. I can with all assurance tell you we WILL have structurally high unemployment
for a very long time to come. Better safe than sorry -- do not hang onto your 'old life' if you
cannot afford it.
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Old 10-26-09, 09:35 PM   #83
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...and now my husband was laid off yesterday!
then taking that first job offered you might not have been such a mistake after all. It might not be your "dream job", but it will keep the wolf from the door.......true?
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Old 10-27-09, 09:54 PM   #84
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then taking that first job offered you might not have been such a mistake after all. It might not be your "dream job", but it will keep the wolf from the door.......true?
Heck no! The first job I took was a crap job just for money, and they never even paid me.
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Old 10-30-09, 01:59 PM   #85
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Interview in two weeks. Wish me luck.
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Old 11-14-09, 07:26 PM   #86
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then taking that first job offered you might not have been such a mistake after all. It might not be your "dream job", but it will keep the wolf from the door.......true?
problem is that sometimes... many times you can only get something like a $500 a month job (i'll be lucky to get ANY job thanks to the neuromas in my feet. standing long hours is not something i can do any longer and the reason i quit my last job (i quit but would have been fired thanks in part to my bad attitude thanks to four months of not feeling my toes... but it is funny to not that they pressured me JUST as my health insurance was going to kick in. so, i wonder if it really was my fault. i was a good employee at first... but anyway).

anyway, $500 a month ain't gonna pay for **** anyway. why work if you can't live on it? (and no, multiple jobs aren't a likely route thanks to not having a car).... sometimes your just screwed.

but it is good to note that if you can make at least $1200 a month doing the job, and you can do the job, then you'd damn well better take it unless you live in the country and can live off the land or something. cus right now, and pretty soon, $14,000 a year is gonna be the new median income.
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Old 11-14-09, 07:27 PM   #87
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Heck no! The first job I took was a crap job just for money, and they never even paid me.
was it one of those things where you work for commission only? those are one of the few types of jobs i've seen available around here. those and the ones where they want you to have all sorts of experience and **** that many don't have.
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Old 11-14-09, 07:48 PM   #88
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Lot's of excellent advice in this thread. I'm encouraged. Thank you!


-Joe: six time victim of the LIFO policy.
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Old 11-14-09, 09:06 PM   #89
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I have a few questions for those of you who have been in management or hiring:

1) When checking references such as past employers, what are companies allow to ask former employers? Is there any instance when a previous employer, can tell a potential employer if you were fired or why you were terminated?

2) What is the best way to handle a situation where you were fired? How does one still come out with a positive impression when explaining that scenario?


Thanks again!
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Old 11-14-09, 09:55 PM   #90
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I think it would depend on the reason you were fired. I would try to explain my point of view to prospective employers.
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Old 11-15-09, 02:28 PM   #91
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I think it would depend on the reason you were fired. I would try to explain my point of view to prospective employers.
that only works if you get to talk to them. :/



and have you all ever noticed how they have these questionnaires on job applications? those things where they ask you if you're always happy and are politicians honest and ask you to list things in order of good to worse and generally just give you a bunch of questions completely without context and somehow expect you to give simple yet somehow, still accurate answers?

how the hell are you supposed to answer those because i think they all red ink me on them.... i hate those things!

also, how do you look for a job if you stink and have no place to shower? that's one that needs to be answered.

and what jobs are available to those that can't stand for long periods?
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Old 11-15-09, 03:28 PM   #92
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You're not supposed to think too hard about those questions, they're only meant to weed out the most incompetent of psychopaths. Stealing is bad; you should always obey your superiors but show drive and initiative and work hard without supervision, if you see your coworker doing something wrong you report them. Those sorts of things. Sitting down job w/o previous experience = telemarketer. Can shower at YMCA or truck stops.
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Old 11-15-09, 04:47 PM   #93
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You're not supposed to think too hard about those questions, they're only meant to weed out the most incompetent of psychopaths. Stealing is bad; you should always obey your superiors but show drive and initiative and work hard without supervision, if you see your coworker doing something wrong you report them. Those sorts of things. Sitting down job w/o previous experience = telemarketer. Can shower at YMCA or truck stops.
telemarketing went to india. :/

and i don't think those questionnaire are that simple. i went for one with ace cash express, i think they wanted the psychopath... and should i be honest and answer that all politicians are liars and thieves?
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Old 11-15-09, 06:17 PM   #94
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that only works if you get to talk to them. :/



and have you all ever noticed how they have these questionnaires on job applications? those things where they ask you if you're always happy and are politicians honest and ask you to list things in order of good to worse and generally just give you a bunch of questions completely without context and somehow expect you to give simple yet somehow, still accurate answers?

how the hell are you supposed to answer those because i think they all red ink me on them.... i hate those things!

also, how do you look for a job if you stink and have no place to shower? that's one that needs to be answered.

and what jobs are available to those that can't stand for long periods?

old82?
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Old 11-15-09, 08:30 PM   #95
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yes, how do you know?
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Old 11-15-09, 09:11 PM   #96
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As a hiring manager, due to potential defamation claims, most employers no longer give references. We tell dates of employment, starting and ending pay, and if they are eligible for rehire. That is it.
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Old 11-16-09, 02:26 AM   #97
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many times hiring managers do not get the calls anyway, references get listed as managers who
are really co-workers who lie, or someone who is not a manager picks up a phone somewhere and
says things against company policy. even the WAY someone says they cannot give a reference is a
reference into and of itself at times. I can tell you I personally got the last kind of reference MANY
times over the years. And finally, in close-knit communities of professionals, informal references
get shared even if policy says no. One woman whoworked for me sued a client (i kid you not) for
job descrimination AFTER she broke her foot and stopped going to work. I don;t know how the suit
eventually resolved as the company went bust within a year of the suit, but I DO know she never
got hired in her field even 5 years after that episode because her field was small and HR managers talk.
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Old 11-16-09, 03:34 AM   #98
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yes, how do you know?
Long time member PCP.
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Old 11-16-09, 10:25 AM   #99
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Mr. Markets is spot on. There is official company policy and there is what actually happens. In small professional communities where everyone knows each other, people often pick up the phone and provide or receive references. I have done this many times. I will do it by phone, but not by email, so as to avoid a written record that can get subpoenaed in discovery.

For most professionals, suing an employer is a Pyrric victory at best even if you win. Once you get a reputation for this, it can be very difficult to get hired anywhere again.
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Old 12-03-09, 01:48 AM   #100
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By now, some unemployed readers of this might be starting to get desperate as they are running out of money. Or, perhaps you are not
running out of money yet buy you have high bills and know eventually you will. So I want to take this particular post off onto a tanget to
those people who read and feel desperate. And here is my advice...

Don't lose it, let others take the loss.

Owe on your credit cards? Stiff them. Sure your credit rating will get trashed, but paying them off at 30% won't help you if you run out of money.
House payment gonna reset upwards on your ARM? Stop paying. Banks are NOT being very good about foreclosure as they don't
want to show the hit on their books. You could possibly live a year or more rent-free courtesy of the bank. Yeah, they too may trash your
credit rating, but really, would you rather starve or crash with the relatives?

Americans are trained to pay their bills and internalize the stress of not being able to do so. The system normally works well this way, however
these are not normal times. Do you REALLY feel bad some bankster won't get their bonus because too many of you stop paying your credit
card bills? Or that some other bankster may not get as much this Xmas because you default on your loan?

With a good effort, you can always restore your credit over a 3-7 year period. And if you want to buy a house sooner, you will always find
someone who wants to sell and personally finance you with a good down payment, even if the house is not the exact one you want. but in
the end, if you hang onto your cash v. giving it to the banksters, YOU will feel much better in the end.

Oh, and those annoying phone calls? Be nice, tell them you have NO money (lie) and they are just wasting their time. Make sure that money is
nowhere it can be found and attached.

Remember, in the battle for financial survival, your first duty is to you and your family, not some bankster even if you made some financial
mistakes.

- - - - -

oh yes, if you just can't help but pay those nasty CC companies, negotiate your own lower payoff if you have the cash. You will be amazed
but if you call your CC company and get to a 'workout' person, I bet you can pay off your balance at less than 50 cents on the dollar. Maybe
even as little as 30 cents on the dollar. Make sure you get a payout letter in writing from them first before you pay anything. How do you
do this? simple, if you own $5k and have 2500 to pay, tell them you have two choices -- pay them off all 2500 and they take that and
cancel your card OR... pay them nothing and use the 2500 to pay off some other credit card.

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