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-   -   Hints for the newly or soon-to-be laid off (http://www.bikeforums.net/foo/488559-hints-newly-soon-laid-off.html)

joewey 03-15-11 01:22 PM

A lot of it might be parts for assembly elsewhere, but yeah the US is a mighty economic powerhouse. :D

ace587 05-07-11 01:48 AM

so far its been stable. i work in a healthcare environment. i work in the ER as an RN, and hoping to challenge the paramedic exam here and get another title and work for an ambulance company. So far its been good, my hospital was losing money but we got bought by a bigger umbrella and hoping they keep the current employees

himespau 05-07-11 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ace587 (Post 12607991)
so far its been stable. i work in a healthcare environment. i work in the ER as an RN, and hoping to challenge the paramedic exam here and get another title and work for an ambulance company. So far its been good, my hospital was losing money but we got bought by a bigger umbrella and hoping they keep the current employees

Huh, I've mostly heard about people going the other way (mainly as they age and the physical demands of paramedic work get to be too much on their joints/back).

ace587 05-07-11 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by himespau (Post 12608198)
Huh, I've mostly heard about people going the other way (mainly as they age and the physical demands of paramedic work get to be too much on their joints/back).

yeah its just some nurses want to end up doing also field work, pre-hospital stuff. I know some RN/Paramedics

greyghost_6 05-23-11 02:36 AM

I donate plasma 2 times a week for over 200$ extra a month. I am still employed. I have no TV service (who needs it when there is internet?) and not too much debt. Turn off lights. Oh and my newly discovered way of saving toilet water, pee up to 5 times in a bowl before flushing or when you take a number 2 in it :D

____asdfghjkl 06-19-11 02:32 PM

I'm still looking for a job and I'm having no luck while all of my friends are finding jobs with no problem.
What am I doing wrong?

BlueRaleigh 06-19-11 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ____asdfghjkl (Post 12810392)
I'm still looking for a job and I'm having no luck while all of my friends are finding jobs with no problem.
What am I doing wrong?

I think jobs are like women. When you want one, they won't have anything to do with you. When you're indifferent, they throw themselves at you.

bemoore 06-20-11 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ____asdfghjkl (Post 12810392)
I'm still looking for a job and I'm having no luck while all of my friends are finding jobs with no problem.
What am I doing wrong?

Um, we'd need to know what you're doing, and not doing to make that determination. About two years ago, I lost my job, and found myself in the job search world. I did everything recommended by the experts, who told me that sites like Monster are basically a waste of time. My current employer got my resume off Monster. So, despite every recommendation from the experts, luck is as much a factor as anything.

MillCreek 06-20-11 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ____asdfghjkl (Post 12810392)
I'm still looking for a job and I'm having no luck while all of my friends are finding jobs with no problem.
What am I doing wrong?

Well, the economy in Portland/Vancouver sucks, for one thing.

Mr. Markets 09-12-11 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Markets (Post 9931372)
yup, work is work at this point. over the years I watched many a person run out their unemployment,
turning down jobs, only to get desperate and all right AFTER their UI was gone. If you gotta start
dipping into savings, you gotta start jettisoning the old life way sooner than later. Economists like
to joke about the saying "this time it's different" when people start to say it, but truly, THIS time it
REALLY IS different.


We are in a 'balance sheet recession', not your ordinary inventory supply downturn. This is the ki8nd
of downturn where everyone is forced to rebuild their balance sheets and pay down debt. And all
the government spending in the world is not gonna fix those problems. If anything, it will make them
worse.


SO, if you are one of those people who has too much debt, too littl savings, and selling the car, boat,
RV, house, whatever will lessen the monthly nut, by all means do it EARLY in the unemployment
process this time around. I can with all assurance tell you we WILL have structurally high unemployment
for a very long time to come. Better safe than sorry -- do not hang onto your 'old life' if you
cannot afford it.

Been almost two years since i typed the above text, and not much has changed. If anything, we are headed down the slope yet again...

Mr. Markets 09-12-11 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bemoore (Post 12814577)
Um, we'd need to know what you're doing, and not doing to make that determination. About two years ago, I lost my job, and found myself in the job search world. I did everything recommended by the experts, who told me that sites like Monster are basically a waste of time. My current employer got my resume off Monster. So, despite every recommendation from the experts, luck is as much a factor as anything.

Monster is a tremendous resource, especially for larger firms. Anyone who would tell you it's a waste must be wasted themselves. We used it all day long, and I am sure plenty of other firms do as well.

christ0ph 11-17-11 01:34 PM

Be careful in taking another job, do your research well. Because if you take another job and it doesn't work out, you cannot just quit and then be eligible for unemployment as you were before. They require much more in the way of a reason than "it didn't work out" and you may be stuck with no good answer for them.

The finer points of career advancement and need to do work in your field don't register to them, they will often just see that you quit your last job, so you're ineligible.

Its a fine line..

christ0ph 11-17-11 01:40 PM

Use a throwaway email address, because some of the sites put you in a situation where a significant number of people try to get your money- scams that are just trying to get you to buy something or sometimes, sketchy "employers" who just want you to do real work for free.

You have to develop a radar to be able to sense that kind of pitch. Watch out for the wild eyed dreamers and their startup proposals.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Markets (Post 13212351)
Monster is a tremendous resource, especially for larger firms. Anyone who would tell you it's a waste must be wasted themselves. We used it all day long, and I am sure plenty of other firms do as well.


christ0ph 11-17-11 01:50 PM

Ultimately, whats happening is a process of change from the industrial revolution, to the post industrial era. Previously, (19th and 20th centuries) industry needed people to run machines, now increasingly, the machines run themselves.

The only way to stay employed is to have skills that go way beyond what any machine can do now and in the near future. Which is likely to be a lot more than most people in the US realize, given the woeful level of science and tech literacy here.

Just assume that if it can be plotted out on a chart, if this condition is true, do this, if this is true, do this, even some very complicated behaviors, like driving, will soon be done by machines. In oher words, the much hoped for "recovery" won't come. There is no job fairy who will find good jobs for the masses. That belief is like cargo cultism. The sooner we all realize that the past wont return without a similar set of circumstances (machines not sophisticated enough to be programmable, but tasks done with them complicated enough to require a great deal of variation, plus rest of industrialized world and skilled workforces destroyed or scattered to the winds in big war) - the better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Markets (Post 13212347)
Been almost two years since i typed the above text, and not much has changed. If anything, we are headed down the slope yet again...


christ0ph 11-17-11 01:53 PM

People who have world class skills have the best chance of getting the shrinking pool of jobs. If you are the best at the thing you do - and stay on top of your niche - you will probably remain able to do it. But that requires real dedication.

trackhub 11-20-11 02:46 PM

Indeed a good thread. I especially like rule # 8. HR is no one's friend. If you can contact a hiring manager directly, do so.

Now I am hearing that some companies are telling prospective job seekers that they have been out of work too long, or "un-employed need not apply".
Huh? WTF is up with that?

christ0ph 11-21-11 01:19 PM

I think that in this weird economy some of that stuff is being played up in part for a ugly reason. It serves a useful purpose to tell still employed people that there is some (other than luck) important difference between the working and the growing ranks of unemployed that makes the working "worthy" and the unemployed unworthy. The last thing they want people realizing is that when companies get carte blanche to do whatever they want they often export jobs when they see it as expedient. The needs change, the number of jobs shrinks, people lose jobs. If they have done things like take out mortgages, buy homes, cars, etc. often they lose out. If we were more honest about that, people would behave differently, they would behave more in their own interests.

Is there a stigma to being unemployed? Yes in that it IS really important to keep your job skills up and the only way to do that is working developing and using those skills.

BUT, in my own experience, especially if you dont have a rich uncle you can easily get just as stuck employed where your skills go nowhere.

If that job also drains all your energy it can and does stop some careers cold to stay there. It depends on if you have a degree. To a great extent, the right degree is like a ticket to employment even if you are rusty. And your income will be much higher, faster. If you dont have it, youll be working very hard finally get a decent wage, and then, you'll get laid off. Your "prime lending years" are truncated at around age 50 unless you manage to find a stable position

Do they even exist anymore! Maybe in some fields, but if you lack a degree, there is a growing number of people who seem to have it in for anybody who does not have a degree and who makes more than around $50-60k a year. Its like they are miserable and they want everybody else to be miserable too. Avoid those people like the plague.

Smaller companies are sometimes keepers and sometimes very bad places to be.

In my experience, computer jobs are much better in some respects than many other fields for smart people who dont have a PhD or MS.

But even, especially, perhaps, in a computer related job if your own personal work product is not your company's main product, do not expect your job to last long. If it does great, but you cannot count on it. Don't make life decisions based on it, like getting a mortgage.

Why, because your job can probably be done for less by some firm that specializes in it, outsourced. Consultants will tell your boss that, and they are right in many cases. In house staff in many cases are a luxuty, a vestige of the past, and increasingly are expendable. See Nicholas Carr's essay "IT Doesn't Matter".. and its critics for the arguments.

If you are in house staff in a field that is not your employers core competency, and your job responsibilities are not challenging and your career not moving up, if you have the flexibility, you should consider moving to another job. Responsibly.

The other side of this coin, though is that its ALSO very important to be able to keep growing professionally. Arguably even more important than money. If you don't have a college degree, its extremely important because for various reasons the de facto retirement age is dropping very quickly. People need to earn and save while they can, understanding that they may not be able to after age 50 or so, no mater what the politicians say. If they have a family, and can swing it, they may do better overseas. Even if the pay is lower, people often can leverage their international experiences into more pay and better careers much better than somebody who has remained in one country and one field for decades and then finds themselves looking for work here in the US. The developing world is exactly that, developing. That is where the most new money is being made.

Dont stagnate. If you have not gotten ahead in your company, you may find yourself unemployed with no prospects if you have not been able to spend some of that time developing your skillset and building up a professional reputation that goes way beyond your company's walls. Companies get merged and lots of people get laid off. The accomplishments of those companies and their people can vanish into oblivion in just a few years, nobody will be able to verify your accomplishments. There might not even be anybody left to verify your ever having been employed there.

Save your money. Don get suckered into spending it without much more than "hope".

Lots of people spend their last dime at that point going back to college (often at expensive private vocational schools with bad track records at employing the products of their programs.) Often then many of them find that they still can't get a job. Because the subject they studied thinking it would land them a job was a dying one, or that a certificate in it is not so useful if they lack practical experience.

Now, even smart older people find they go years looking for work. If they have some health problem, don't waste time. Work like crazy to find a job as soon as you can, do your learning at night, on your own, because a clock is ticking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by trackhub (Post 13514374)
Indeed a good thread. I especially like rule # 8. HR is no one's friend. If you can contact a hiring manager directly, do so.

Thats good advice but I would say "your potential manager" instead of "hiring manager" because in my mental dictionary a "hiring manager" IS a HR person and so, almost guaranteed to not know enough to recognize real talent. Instead, try to find the people who you would actually be working with, who you know know their work, and wow them, They will see if you do too, or not. Don't try to BS your way into jobs, it wont work and will leave you worse off than you were before.

So, go directly to the people who you will work with in your target job, the people who NEED YOU. Then amaze them so much that they will have to go to the HR guy and say point blank WE NEED -insert your name-. Period.


Otherwise, maybe the other guy who slipped the HR guy money to hire them will get a job. But you won't.

Some (very unprofessional) HR folks do things like that these days, to feather their nests, because their pay isn't that high. Just like people pay bribes for apartments all the time, it happens with jobs too.

So, yes, bypass HR, but you have to do it very well, you have to know in advance what you want to say and to who you need to say it, and how you want to solve their problem. Ideally the problem that they didn't even see which is bearing down on them. (it has to be real, too)

In some employers, bypassing HR absolutely requires having a friend in the company. Because otherwise, you may find its hard. These are the company's best people. Headhunters call their best people trying to hire them off, all the time. Can you blame them for making it hard for any person off the street to call them?

Their phone numbers often will not be public. If you sound like a job applicant all roads wll default to HR. You'll be asked to mail in a resume which will just be scanned in and read by a computer and unless you are very lucky, your quest could easily end there.


If you get the job..

Suppose you get hired, if you know your stuff, dont be smug, don't ever forget that you have to keep moving, you have to document your accomplishments to your superiors, and you have to deliver more than other people even those who have better credentials.

(Unless you are a politician.)

The rules have changed.


Quote:

Originally Posted by trackhub (Post 13514374)
Now I am hearing that some companies are telling prospective job seekers that they have been out of work too long, or "un-employed need not apply".
Huh? WTF is up with that?

Here is what you need to be.. On the ball and responsible.

Also, consider this.. suppose you are the person who is looking for a new employee, and you get a call from a prospective, currently still employed worker during the mid afternoon, say, calling from their work phone?

Maybe I am old fashioned, but that would be a major red flag for me..

Unless that company was literally at deaths door, (in which case, everybody, including the boss is typically looking from work, seriously, doing just that) would you really want to give a job to someone who was probably using their employer's time to jobhunt and call prospective other employers?

No. If you are older, emphasize the fact that you not only know the job, you are conscientious and do not ever act unprofessionally at work.

(Also, dont ever bad mouth former employers or even hint at any of their problems in interviews.)

...

Other stuff to consider..

Keep copies of your work contacts, (TRY ESPECIALLY TO GET AND KEEP "UP TO DATE" A CURRENT LIST OF YOUR CO WORKER FRIENDS PERSONAL NON WORK EMAILS AND HOME PHONE NUMBERS )

Also make high quality copies of work you do and did, and keep a running list of your job achievements on your home, personal computer and make a backup.

Why? Because these days, sometimes, people lose jobs suddenly.

Ive had friends who showed up for work one day (usually a Monday) and the company was locked shut. Friday, open for business, Monday, closed and padlock on door. Network down. Emails dont work. Everybody not just out of work, locked out. Furniture and computers being auctioned off to pay debts.. last paychecks bouncing.. health insurance claims coming back..

In the late 90s, I had a friend who had had a baby whose husband (and all of his co workers) lost their jobs shortly afterward. It turned out that her employer had not paid its health insurance premium and so the insurer would not pay any of her hospital bills, plus she had to pay the self insured rate, which is extremely high.. (its what they charge rich people) Having her baby in the nice suburban hospital that they used ended up costing her and her husband something like $30-40,000!

If you have medical issues and are still employed, try to get them resolved when they emerge, because the biggest costs are then. Dont think you'll be able to afford them under COBRA, even with the huge subsidy (60%?) only 17% of the newly unemployed find they can afford it, so many become uninsured, or buy catastrophic care which means that you have to spend maybe $5000 or $10000 in a year before your insurance starts paying. Even if you can afford real insurance, while still paying your rent, you may find that the care in-network is inadequate, like walking around in circles, and/or that co-pays can add up very fast if you have a health problem.

I wrote a bunch more stuff basically *****ing about US health care but I decided to remove most of it except for this. What can we look forward to? ....

Special interests own Washington. Hospitals currently write off a great deal of care because their bills can be huge, and many people have no insurance and no assets to take. The hospitals will get those costs covered. Middle class people will still lose their shirts. Poor people who have nothing to take will probably get more help than now, but if they can afford it, they may be suspected of hiding income. Of course, Medicaid has to be reimbursed so if by some miracle anyone still owns their homes they will be taken when they die. There will be no estate. Children living at home will have to move out.

no1mad 01-30-12 07:53 PM

Severance Pay??
 
I didn't read the whole thread, so maybe already covered and I didn't feel this warranted a thread of its own.

Situation: Company A got bought by Company B. Company B claims to make the transition smoother re: payroll, all of the employees from the old A gets new B ID's and new effective hire date- everyone starts out fresh.

So now, some of the old A's/new B's are being laid off. Company A laid people off and gave them severance packages. Company B is now laying people off but not ponying up the severance due to the fact in their opinion, none of the ones being let go have been around long enough to earn it. Part of me understands this logic.

Now, I am one of the affected ones, but as I was only part time during the transition (and have been for a couple of years now), I was expecting any. My boss, on the other hand, was with the old Company A, the transition, and now Company B for a combined 20 years.... and she gets nothing.

himespau 01-31-12 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by no1mad (Post 13788488)
I didn't read the whole thread, so maybe already covered and I didn't feel this warranted a thread of its own.

Situation: Company A got bought by Company B. Company B claims to make the transition smoother re: payroll, all of the employees from the old A gets new B ID's and new effective hire date- everyone starts out fresh.

So now, some of the old A's/new B's are being laid off. Company A laid people off and gave them severance packages. Company B is now laying people off but not ponying up the severance due to the fact in their opinion, none of the ones being let go have been around long enough to earn it. Part of me understands this logic.

Now, I am one of the affected ones, but as I was only part time during the transition (and have been for a couple of years now), I was expecting any. My boss, on the other hand, was with the old Company A, the transition, and now Company B for a combined 20 years.... and she gets nothing.

That whole thing just seems like a shady way to get out of paying severance and I'd imagine (though I don't know) a labor lawyer might be able to help with that.

ModoVincere 11-21-12 01:09 PM

You should write a knock of Canterbury Tales....and use Foosters as the characters.

bigbenaugust 11-21-12 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ModoVincere (Post 14972040)
You should write a knock of Canterbury Tales....and use Foosters as the characters.

wrong thread?

FXjohn 11-25-12 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Markets (Post 13212347)
Been almost two years since i typed the above text, and not much has changed. If anything, we are headed down the slope yet again...

unemployment is don to 7 percent in Indiana. pre recession levels. saying nothing has changed is ignorant.

no1mad 12-09-12 09:55 PM

FYI: If you or anyone you know has been on unemployment, exhausted the normal benefits, and currently relying on the "Emergency Unemployment Compensation" (EUC)... well, 2013 is gonna be off to a rocky start for those affected (including yours truly). The program is ending and the last week that will be paid for is week ending Dec. 29. From what I understand, even if you just start one of the EUC tiers the week before, the program will not pay beyond 12/29, regardless of the balance of funds available.

Couch 12-13-12 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FXjohn (Post 14982653)
unemployment is don to 7 percent in Indiana. pre recession levels. saying nothing has changed is ignorant.

No, not checking dates on posts is ignorant.

Couch

TexasGuy 01-23-13 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FXjohn (Post 14982653)
unemployment is don to 7 percent in Indiana. pre recession levels. saying nothing has changed is ignorant.

Unemployment figures are generally based off of # of eligible applications and there are huge exclusions that make this figure widely unreliable.
Quoting a state that represents 2.98% of the population and applying it to everybody is great statisticss.
Illinois while facing some rough unemployment was actually very mild compared to most states that suffered severely. Making the basis for this as a statistic even more widely Statistical.


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