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Old 11-22-08, 05:21 PM   #26
BarracksSi
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Good lord, are O2 sensors built into exhaust manifolds now?
No, thank goodness -- the OEM tubular header would cost me $172 new from the same site (hondaautomotiveparts.com). That doesn't even count the catalytic convertor, which is over $700.

I did buy a used header and cat for my car, getting RSX Type-S parts so I could easily bolt up a Japanese-market exhaust system -- $50 for the header and, I think, either $100 or $150 for the cat (bought the cat from a kid who turboed his RSX and blew it up). O2 sensors aren't sold "used", though, unless you can get lucky and pull one from a junked car; normally they just break and wear out.
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Old 11-22-08, 07:07 PM   #27
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Thats what you get for driving rice burner
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Old 11-22-08, 07:13 PM   #28
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Thats what you get for driving rice burner
Guess that O2 sensors don't like sake...
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Old 11-22-08, 07:20 PM   #29
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You're supposed to change the oil...?

That explains so much now.
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Old 11-22-08, 07:24 PM   #30
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You're supposed to change the oil...?

That explains so much now.
Oh, I've heard stories...

Imagine what happens inside a motor when it's been using the same oil for 75,000 miles.
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Old 11-22-08, 07:45 PM   #31
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A while back I saw a newer Mercedes getting towed by a beat up old S10. Now THAT's funny, I don't care who you are...
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Old 11-22-08, 07:47 PM   #32
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Oh, I've heard stories...

Imagine what happens inside a motor when it's been using the same oil for 75,000 miles.
I once knew someone that worked on the big tandem dump trucks and his idea of changing the oil in the car belonging to the owner's wife was to drain the oil, start the car, and then add oil till the oil light on the dash went out...
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Old 11-22-08, 07:58 PM   #33
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Thats called illegal in the US.
Exactly right. There would be no aftermarket if dealers could do this.
The only caveat is that you can void your warranty if you don't use MB approved oil and filters. Your owners manual or service manual, I forget which one, has the approved types of oil. VW/Audi is this way as well. Mercedes also uses a special fleece oil filter which you must use if you stick to their extended 10k mile service intervals or you will void a warranty. There are aftermarket companies like Mann that already make these filters and they are less than half the cost of the dealer ones. If you change more often, paper filters are acceptable.
The A service requires you to have the diagnostics intervals reset and the dealer is usually one of the only places you can have that done but everything else on the A service interval can be done by any reputable garage and cost about half that. Just always keep your receipts and make sure the receipts are detailed.
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Old 11-22-08, 08:02 PM   #34
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What P T Barnum said.
And this is true as well.
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Old 11-22-08, 08:26 PM   #35
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I replaced my oil drain plug with a fumoto valve. 4wd means no lifting the vehicle. Oil changes are cheaper, quicker and better than a shop. I'll wear gloves, but it's usually a drip-free operation.
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Old 11-22-08, 10:31 PM   #36
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I bought a BMW 3201, a little 4 cyclinder, in the early 1980s. Took it in to the dealer when the O2 sensor said it needed to be replaced.

1. Guy in new crisp Polo shirt greets me in the service area...first words out of his month "Hello, and do you have an appointment....I should have turned and left then
2. I mention that the O2 sensor light, he tells me that this requires the 30000 mile service package for $475 1983 USD.
3. I flip out and ask what in the world make it so expensive....in short they also change the spark plugs and the air filter
4. I stagger to parts dept, and buy the O2 sensor and leave

Later, I mention this to my wise old father who explained the situation...

Some people have more money than sense. Since it is very difficult for people to gain more sense, the only way to correct their money to sense ratio is to take away some of their money. The BMW (fill in your favorite overpriced prestige consumer item) is helping take money from people that might otherwise hurt themself......at the time I laughed....now I know it is reality
Oh boy. Please tell me you're not replacing the O2 sensor every time the light comes on. The light is turned on by your odometer, it is not a trouble light. All it needs is a reset, which on an 80s 320i should cost you a half hour's labor.
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Old 11-22-08, 10:31 PM   #37
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That's really good. I can't buy just one of those sensors for my '02 Honda for that cheap even from the cheapest online sources I've found. They list for about $280, and one source sells them for $190.

About checking the undercarriage bolts and fixings -- hopefully they actually go over them all with a torque wrench. That's what I'd do if it were up to me, and it's not going to take just five minutes, either.

As I rememeber it, the 1999 Toyota Tacoma with the small 2.4L engine only had one sensor, and (as the service writer told me) it was $65 and is a simple swap-out with a wrench. California smog check was going to be needed for reregisteration, and also needed to properly adjust the O2 sensor. While there I got the oil & filter changed (no chassis lube, as it was sealed bearings). Truck got totaled by a drunk driver in 2006 while it was parked on a city street, but still ran great with 120,000 miles on it.
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Old 11-22-08, 11:15 PM   #38
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As I rememeber it, the 1999 Toyota Tacoma with the small 2.4L engine only had one sensor, and (as the service writer told me) it was $65 and is a simple swap-out with a wrench.
It would be nice to have just one. Mine's got two, one primary that goes in the collector before the cat and one that plugs into the cat itself. They both pop right out with the right wrench, though.
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Old 11-22-08, 11:19 PM   #39
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It's times like this that I miss my old malibu, held together mainly with duct tape and coat hangers.

Had brakes on only one rear wheel which was also the only tire with any tread on it.

And if it didn't start you had to either give the carburetor a good thumping or adjust the points a bit.

I miss that old car...
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Old 11-23-08, 01:18 AM   #40
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have fun changing the oil youre gonna be super pissed when you try to get that filter off
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Old 11-23-08, 01:29 AM   #41
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As I rememeber it, the 1999 Toyota Tacoma with the small 2.4L engine only had one sensor, and (as the service writer told me) it was $65 and is a simple swap-out with a wrench. California smog check was going to be needed for reregisteration, and also needed to properly adjust the O2 sensor. While there I got the oil & filter changed (no chassis lube, as it was sealed bearings). Truck got totaled by a drunk driver in 2006 while it was parked on a city street, but still ran great with 120,000 miles on it.
My old '86 4-Runner had the legendary 22R under the hood and aside from regular tune ups and oil changes the only thing that ever needed fixing was a bad top weld on the rad that cost me $90.00 and was then reimbursed for by Toyota as it was a recall issue.

It had nearly 500,000 km on it and was running perfectly when I sold it and the last time I saw it it had 800,000 km on it and was still running perfectly.

My old Nissan Sentra has 1,250,000 km on it and is still running well.

It's not a big surprise for me to see GM, Ford, and Chrysler suffering as they are since they still don't build cars as well as Toyota, Nissan, and Honda do
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Old 11-23-08, 02:09 AM   #42
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My old '86 4-Runner had the legendary 22R under the hood and aside from regular tune ups and oil changes the only thing that ever needed fixing was a bad top weld on the rad that cost me $90.00 and was then reimbursed for by Toyota as it was a recall issue.

It had nearly 500,000 km on it and was running perfectly when I sold it and the last time I saw it it had 800,000 km on it and was still running perfectly.
Yeah, the Toyota pickups from that era were feckin' bulletproof. Watch for them on the road. They're still everywhere. Beaten to death, most of them, but still going. Top Gear tried their hardest to destroy one, and they just couldn't do it. It's not surprising that the 4Runners do just as well. Quality workmanship and simplicity go a long way (literally).
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Old 11-23-08, 04:15 AM   #43
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well, synthetic oil is like ten bucks a quart, right? so that's at least seventy bucks right there. another 15-20 for the filter, and you're almost at $100 in parts. MB dealer labor rates usually run in the $100/hr range.

so it sounds about right. maybe a little bit high. but not much.
I run full synthetic with a nicer filter and DIY jobs cost $30 tops. Maybe push near $50 if I use the very best. There aren't any synthetics that are that expensive, maybe Royal Purple or Mobil 1 that doesn't need changing for 20,000 miles. And the nicest filter I've seen at my local stores are all less than $12.

Last edited by z415; 11-23-08 at 04:21 AM.
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Old 11-23-08, 04:20 AM   #44
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Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act
You don't even need the act now-a-days. There are plenty of case law precedents that would find such binding contractual obligations illegal.
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Old 11-23-08, 07:08 AM   #45
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Perhaps if he did'nt call me "Sir" and the waiting area did'nt have personalized LCD dispalys for your viewing pleasure it would have been cheaper.

Although the new "S" sedans in the showroom are just plain dreamy..for $108,500.
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Old 11-23-08, 08:27 AM   #46
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My old '86 4-Runner had the legendary 22R under the hood and aside from regular tune ups and oil changes the only thing that ever needed fixing was a bad top weld on the rad that cost me $90.00 and was then reimbursed for by Toyota as it was a recall issue.

It had nearly 500,000 km on it and was running perfectly when I sold it and the last time I saw it it had 800,000 km on it and was still running perfectly.

My old Nissan Sentra has 1,250,000 km on it and is still running well.

It's not a big surprise for me to see GM, Ford, and Chrysler suffering as they are since they still don't build cars as well as Toyota, Nissan, and Honda do

The last car my girlfriend had was a 1996 Ford Crown Victoria - she drives like AJ Foyt in a drifting competition at all times, and it made it to 340,000 miles (~550K km) before the lock-up torque converter went. When she sold it, that engine still had 35 psi oil pressure at idle.

American cars aren't what they could be, but it also depends on the one you buy - solid, RWD luxury cars? Sure. Wonder how many miles all of those Lincoln Towncars, Chevy Caprices and Ford Crown Vics have as taxis, police cars, etc.
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Old 11-23-08, 09:45 AM   #47
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Correct. I can't change it myself. Nor can I change the cabin air herpa filter, or the air filter myself.
But you can go to "Quikie-Lube" and have it done for $30 .... or maybe $50 or even $75........ but way less than $500 !! Just keep the paperwork so you can show it was done.
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Old 11-23-08, 09:53 AM   #48
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Five quarts Mobil1 5w-30 from Costco: $25
Purolator Pure1 filter: $7
Used oil recycle: free
Techron fuel injector cleaner from Costco $5
Purolator air filter $ 18

Having an eight year old vehicle (Toyota 4x4 PU 4 cyl.) that has never been in a shop: priceless
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Old 11-23-08, 09:59 AM   #49
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But you can go to "Quikie-Lube" and have it done for $30 .... or maybe $50 or even $75........ but way less than $500 !! Just keep the paperwork so you can show it was done.
Just as long as those monkeys don't F it up in the process. Depends on the locale, of course, but if they can't put in the right transmission fluid, that's pretty stupid.
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Old 11-23-08, 10:43 AM   #50
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I run full synthetic with a nicer filter and DIY jobs cost $30 tops. Maybe push near $50 if I use the very best. There aren't any synthetics that are that expensive, maybe Royal Purple or Mobil 1 that doesn't need changing for 20,000 miles. And the nicest filter I've seen at my local stores are all less than $12.
but are you paying dealer prices for O.E. M-B parts? the C280 takes a special "fleece" (because that's what it does when you pay for it) oil filter. retail on these is usually $17 or so.

since the service period is 10k miles, i'm sure the dealer is using Mobil 1 (or an equivalent). once again, dealer retail prices.

i'm sure he could have had the service for less somewhere else, but $500 isn't out of line for a M-B dealer service.

i work at a (non-dealer) shop that does a lot of Rolls-Royce and Jaguar service, and most of our customers are happy to pay our $83/hour labour rate. a standard maintenance service on a Roller usually runs between $400-500, depending on which service it is and how much of what fluids it needs. and the customers are happy to pay for it, because we're a heck of a lot cheaper than a dealer.

but it's not the same service as a dealer, either. i'm a pretty good tech, and know the cars fairly well. but i'm not factory-trained. i don't get the factory manuals with the new models - sometimes i'm lucky if i get them within a year. that difference is a lot of what you pay for at a dealership. were i driving a new car (less than 20k miles or so), it'd definitely be going back to the dealer for service, higher cost or no. simply because of the greater amount of information on the vehicle they have.
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