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  1. #1
    Who farted? Ka_Jun's Avatar
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    Serious question: Re: Fathering

    So a question to the dads. Do you have a different fathering paradigm than your own father did? What was your dad's paradigm from your perspective? What is your paradigm?

    I think I have a different perspective than my dad. He was of the school of "if I provide for your material needs, that is what it means to be a good father and I am successful as a father." Growing up, he worked a lot, and I think that I resented not having more time to spend with him playing and hanging out, and whatnot. I think it took me a while to come to terms with his parenting construct and that my own views on fathering were different.

    My own paradigm involves being a lot more "hands on", spending time w/ our kids, playing and teaching them stuff. Offering to share my hobbies with them, if they're interested (read: bikes/cycling), etc. and not being as focused on spending a whole lot of time at the office. With other dads I know in my own generation (Gen X, 30 year old dudes), I seem to see a similar pattern of moving towards a more balanced work/homelife.

    What are your thoughts?

  2. #2
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    I agree and understand what you are saying.

    Even though my son is 5 months old, I have already seen differences in the way I am raising him vs. my dad, especially after asking for details from my dad about how he was when I was a baby, too.

    My parents basically had two kids so that we would play/fight/entertain each other, rather than my parents having to spend time with us.

    I clearly remember not understanding why my friend's family would do things together, and my family never, ever did. Then I see my wife's family and how they still do everything together, and that seems extreme to me in the other direction.

    As my son get older, I plan to make conscious and unconscious attempts to break patterns from my own childhood.

    Watching my sister raise her daughter, she is already mimicking our own childhood 100% and it is scary to see from another perspective, and she has no idea she is doing it and gets defensive if I mention it.

    Great topic.

  3. #3
    Ogr8nwmypstmksnosnse pgoat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonataInFSharp View Post

    Great topic.
    yes. I'll read and learn just in case. Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by jsharr View Post
    People whose sig line does not include a jsharr quote annoy me.

  4. #4
    You Know!? For Kids! jsharr's Avatar
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    I do not know what pressures my father felt, but I know they are different than mine. We are products of our environment. My father was raised by poor parents who had suffered through the depression and truly had an appreciation for the value of a dollar.

    I know that he felt guilty about his success in life, when compared to the life his parents had been able to provide for him.

    When my parents bought the lake house with the intent to retire there in 10 years or so, my father never told his father that he had two houses. All due to guilt.

    I was brought up never lacking, in a great part I think because my father did lack as a child. He worked hard to have a career, but did not sacrifice family time. He coached little league, led scouts, took us to the lake, where we had a boat and cabin, things like that. I led an idyllic childhood and was blessed with excellent role models.

    I did not inherit my father's work ethic. I do not have the type of career he had. I did inherit many of his traits and aptitudes and try to model my parenting after what I experienced. I find myself lacking more often than not. I struggle to be a patient mentor instead of an angry dictator.

    Not sure if I have answered your questions, but I tried.
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    Quote Originally Posted by colorider View Post
    Phobias are for irrational fears. Fear of junk ripping badgers is perfectly rational. Those things are nasty.

  5. #5
    Who farted? Ka_Jun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonataInFSharp View Post
    I agree and understand what you are saying.

    Even though my son is 5 months old, I have already seen differences in the way I am raising him vs. my dad, especially after asking for details from my dad about how he was when I was a baby, too.

    My parents basically had two kids so that we would play/fight/entertain each other, rather than my parents having to spend time with us.

    I clearly remember not understanding why my friend's family would do things together, and my family never, ever did. Then I see my wife's family and how they still do everything together, and that seems extreme to me in the other direction.

    As my son get older, I plan to make conscious and unconscious attempts to break patterns from my own childhood.

    Watching my sister raise her daughter, she is already mimicking our own childhood 100% and it is scary to see from another perspective, and she has no idea she is doing it and gets defensive if I mention it.

    Great topic.
    What things/patterns do you want to keep, vs. 86? With the other dads you know, do you find similar assessments of how they were raised? My wife noted recently that of the men she knew in our generation, the vast majority had poor/distant relationships with their fathers. She attributed this to societal pressures and accepted constructs of what it meant to be "a man" or "a father" during their generation. I think she's right, though I wonder what today's construct of the "ideal man" or "ideal father" consists of...

  6. #6
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    Some the same, some different...

    A lot of my parenting choices are patterned after my Dad, and a lot of them are intentinoally different. For example:
    • My parents were very physically affectionate, I am, too.
    • My parents didn't set a lot of boundaries, I tend to set more of them, becasue I see where I was ill-prepared for life out of the house.
    • My Dad never apologised when he lost his cool. I always do.
    • My Dad wasn't very involved in my interactions with my friends. I am more involved with my daughter's friends.


    All in all, I think my prents did pretty well, but I aim to do better in certain ways. My daughter seems to be more secure, comfortable and confident than I was at the same age.
    Riding the Ohio MS Central Ohio Challenge tour, July 12th.

  7. #7
    Who farted? Ka_Jun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsharr View Post
    I do not know what pressures my father felt, but I know they are different than mine. We are products of our environment. My father was raised by poor parents who had suffered through the depression and truly had an appreciation for the value of a dollar.

    I know that he felt guilty about his success in life, when compared to the life his parents had been able to provide for him.

    When my parents bought the lake house with the intent to retire there in 10 years or so, my father never told his father that he had two houses. All due to guilt.

    I was brought up never lacking, in a great part I think because my father did lack as a child. He worked hard to have a career, but did not sacrifice family time. He coached little league, led scouts, took us to the lake, where we had a boat and cabin, things like that. I led an idyllic childhood and was blessed with excellent role models.

    I did not inherit my father's work ethic. I do not have the type of career he had. I did inherit many of his traits and aptitudes and try to model my parenting after what I experienced. I find myself lacking more often than not. I struggle to be a patient mentor instead of an angry dictator.

    Not sure if I have answered your questions, but I tried.
    Ah. I feel you. Sometimes, I hear my dad coming through my mouth, like I'm channelling, or something. Sometimes that's good, sometimes not. Was your father's family time what we might term now, "quality time", not just around reading the paper, but actively engaging, hanging out w/ you kids? Do you value more that you learned, rather than find it of little utility, when looking at what you want to do, or how you want to be, as a dad?

  8. #8
    Who farted? Ka_Jun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kotts View Post
    A lot of my parenting choices are patterned after my Dad, and a lot of them are intentinoally different. For example:
    • My parents were very physically affectionate, I am, too.
    • My parents didn't set a lot of boundaries, I tend to set more of them, becasue I see where I was ill-prepared for life out of the house.
    • My Dad never apologised when he lost his cool. I always do.
    • My Dad wasn't very involved in my interactions with my friends. I am more involved with my daughter's friends.


    All in all, I think my prents did pretty well, but I aim to do better in certain ways. My daughter seems to be more secure, comfortable and confident than I was at the same age.
    Do you think that's generational? My dad is the same. My best friend's dad provided me with one of the most memorable lines I think I've ever heard..."I'm right, even when I'm wrong!" Check that circular reasoning.

  9. #9
    You Know!? For Kids! jsharr's Avatar
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    I want to make it clear that although I did not want, I do not consider myself spoiled as a child, or a latch key kid. Until Jr. High, mom stayed home and we lived the traditional American life of school and play and home cooked meals, and little league and scouts. Dad was involved, but he was not the one to take us shopping or to school, etc. Very traditional role assignment as to husband and wife. Evenings and weekends, dad was there and involved, but weekdays, he was gone often before we awoke, and home at 6 PM, expecting dinner to be on the table.

    As my brother and I grew up, mom took a job, and had a great career in administration at a large hospital here in Dallas.

    My wife and I both work full time, and we divide parenting roles equally. She is more involved in schooling and religion. I am more involved in sports and extracurricular activities like scouting, biking, etc. We try to have a united front on discipline, and there is not the "wait until your father gets home" that I knew as a child.

    Our method is not perfect, none are, but it works for us. Family is more important than career to me. My wife tends to focus more on her career and it shows.
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    Quote Originally Posted by colorider View Post
    Phobias are for irrational fears. Fear of junk ripping badgers is perfectly rational. Those things are nasty.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ka_Jun View Post
    What things/patterns do you want to keep, vs. 86? With the other dads you know, do you find similar assessments of how they were raised? My wife noted recently that of the men she knew in our generation, the vast majority had poor/distant relationships with their fathers. She attributed this to societal pressures and accepted constructs of what it meant to be "a man" or "a father" during their generation. I think she's right, though I wonder what today's construct of the "ideal man" or "ideal father" consists of...
    I think that there's another difference to account for, and that's age. I bet that I'm a much older parent than most of you (I was 40 when my daughter was born). My Dad was older than that when I was born. Whatever other differences that may make, it means that my father's life experince included fighting in the Pacific during WWII. By all accounts, the men who fought in that war became a different kind of man and father because of that experience.
    Riding the Ohio MS Central Ohio Challenge tour, July 12th.

  11. #11
    Who farted? Ka_Jun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsharr View Post
    I want to make it clear that although I did not want, I do not consider myself spoiled as a child, or a latch key kid. Until Jr. High, mom stayed home and we lived the traditional American life of school and play and home cooked meals, and little league and scouts. Dad was involved, but he was not the one to take us shopping or to school, etc. Very traditional role assignment as to husband and wife. Evenings and weekends, dad was there and involved, but weekdays, he was gone often before we awoke, and home at 6 PM, expecting dinner to be on the table.

    As my brother and I grew up, mom took a job, and had a great career in administration at a large hospital here in Dallas.

    My wife and I both work full time, and we divide parenting roles equally. She is more involved in schooling and religion. I am more involved in sports and extracurricular activities like scouting, biking, etc. We try to have a united front on discipline, and there is not the "wait until your father gets home" that I knew as a child.

    Our method is not perfect, none are, but it works for us. Family is more important than career to me. My wife tends to focus more on her career and it shows.
    How do you think your own father viewed it? Family vs. career? For my father, career was a means to provide for the material needs for family, therefore his attention spent on his career WAS a way he illustrated to us that he cared, even though we may not have viewed it that way at the time.

  12. #12
    You Know!? For Kids! jsharr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ka_Jun View Post
    Ah. I feel you. Sometimes, I hear my dad coming through my mouth, like I'm channelling, or something. Sometimes that's good, sometimes not. Was your father's family time what we might term now, "quality time", not just around reading the paper, but actively engaging, hanging out w/ you kids? Do you value more that you learned, rather than find it of little utility, when looking at what you want to do, or how you want to be, as a dad?
    My father was close to perfect in my eyes, quick to instruct, slow to anger, patient and fair and most importantly CONSISTENT. You knew what to expect of my father, and his word was his bond, written in stone. He did not threaten or yell, he told you how it was going to be, and it was clear that he was the ruler of his domain.

    I tend to be less consistent and quicker to anger. I need to work on this. Anger begets anger, kindness is returned in kind. The only person you need to get even with is someone who has treated you kindly.

    I am getting better about this, but it took me screwing up my six year old and having to take him to play therapy, and me to counseling for me to see this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by colorider View Post
    Phobias are for irrational fears. Fear of junk ripping badgers is perfectly rational. Those things are nasty.

  13. #13
    Who farted? Ka_Jun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kotts View Post
    I think that there's another difference to account for, and that's age. I bet that I'm a much older parent than most of you (I was 40 when my daughter was born). My Dad was older than that when I was born. Whatever other differences that may make, it means that my father's life experince included fighting in the Pacific during WWII. By all accounts, the men who fought in that war became a different kind of man and father because of that experience.
    Better, or worse? My wife's father is Vietnam era and her view of his parenting skills are less than favorable.

  14. #14
    You Know!? For Kids! jsharr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ka_Jun View Post
    How do you think your own father viewed it? Family vs. career? For my father, career was a means to provide for the material needs for family, therefore his attention spent on his career WAS a way he illustrated to us that he cared, even though we may not have viewed it that way at the time.
    My father was of the puritan work ethic generation. It was and still is his duty to work. For him not to work would be his demise. He is just as busy in retirement as he was in his paid days.

    He and my mother run a food pantry. He teaches jr. tennis at a local country club. He still plays tennis competitively at 70. He is active in the local community government and in his church.

    He and my mother worked hard and built a comfortable life for themselves and are now enjoying working on things that they enjoy. I believe that my father enjoyed MOST of his working days.
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    Quote Originally Posted by colorider View Post
    Phobias are for irrational fears. Fear of junk ripping badgers is perfectly rational. Those things are nasty.

  15. #15
    Edificating dmotoguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ka_Jun View Post
    So a question to the dads. Do you have a different fathering paradigm than your own father did? What was your dad's paradigm from your perspective? What is your paradigm?

    I think I have a different perspective than my dad. He was of the school of "if I provide for your material needs, that is what it means to be a good father and I am successful as a father." Growing up, he worked a lot, and I think that I resented not having more time to spend with him playing and hanging out, and whatnot. I think it took me a while to come to terms with his parenting construct and that my own views on fathering were different.

    My own paradigm involves being a lot more "hands on", spending time w/ our kids, playing and teaching them stuff. Offering to share my hobbies with them, if they're interested (read: bikes/cycling), etc. and not being as focused on spending a whole lot of time at the office. With other dads I know in my own generation (Gen X, 30 year old dudes), I seem to see a similar pattern of moving towards a more balanced work/homelife.

    What are your thoughts?
    I would attribute it to the differences in the economy during each of those time periods.. my grandpa had to work very hard to keep food on the table.. he couldnt take a friday off to take his son on a bike ride or something..

    my dad spent a lot of time with me growing up because he had a successful business in an economy where it was hard not to be successful.. the 90's were really great for that.

  16. #16
    Who farted? Ka_Jun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmotoguy View Post
    I would attribute it to the differences in the economy during each of those time periods.. my grandpa had to work very hard to keep food on the table.. he couldnt take a friday off to take his son on a bike ride or something..

    my dad spent a lot of time with me growing up because he had a successful business in an economy where it was hard not to be successful.. the 90's were really great for that.
    Do you believe that this economy will result in folks having less time to spend with their kids?

  17. #17
    Who farted? Ka_Jun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsharr View Post
    My father was of the puritan work ethic generation. It was and still is his duty to work. For him not to work would be his demise. He is just as busy in retirement as he was in his paid days.

    He and my mother run a food pantry. He teaches jr. tennis at a local country club. He still plays tennis competitively at 70. He is active in the local community government and in his church.

    He and my mother worked hard and built a comfortable life for themselves and are now enjoying working on things that they enjoy. I believe that my father enjoyed MOST of his working days.
    Jeez, sounds like a good guy. My father was the same, with the work ethic, though in his retirement (involuntary) he has kicked back. I think he's cynical about how things in his career played out, and I don't blame him.

  18. #18
    Ogr8nwmypstmksnosnse pgoat's Avatar
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    sorry to butt in - this is truly a great thread guys. Thank you for sharing.
    Quote Originally Posted by jsharr View Post
    People whose sig line does not include a jsharr quote annoy me.

  19. #19
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    My dad grew up in the depression. He spent time with me when I was young, and when I was doing things he liked. He taught me to play baseball and was one of the coaches most of the way through my time there (I dropped out at age 12). Aside of that, and the occasional game of golf, he was pretty hands-off. I am pretty hands off too, but I think I interact with my children more than I recall him doing. Overall, I don't think there's a major difference of philosophy, more one of application.
    The search for inner peace continues...

  20. #20
    RustyTainte substructure's Avatar
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    Me and my father had a horrible relationship. It's harder now (at close to 40 years old) to deal with it then when I was a kid. Hard to explain.
    I don't think I could tell you all how it really was. But I'm nothing like it.
    I love my daughter and step-daughter more than anything.
    I love my wife more than anything. And I think that is a major part in showing your children true love. Sticking by my wife no matter what. Respecting her and loving her unconditionally. I want my daughters to see that a real man loves and respects his wife. I didn't see that growing up.

  21. #21
    Ogr8nwmypstmksnosnse pgoat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substructure View Post
    I love my wife more than anything. And I think that is a major part in showing your children true love. Sticking by my wife no matter what. Respecting her and loving her unconditionally. I want my daughters to see that a real man loves and respects his wife. I didn't see that growing up.
    well said. It's very sad when that's not there, and it absolutely has an adverse effect on the kids.
    Quote Originally Posted by jsharr View Post
    People whose sig line does not include a jsharr quote annoy me.

  22. #22
    Who farted? Ka_Jun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAZorro View Post
    My dad grew up in the depression. He spent time with me when I was young, and when I was doing things he liked. He taught me to play baseball and was one of the coaches most of the way through my time there (I dropped out at age 12). Aside of that, and the occasional game of golf, he was pretty hands-off. I am pretty hands off too, but I think I interact with my children more than I recall him doing. Overall, I don't think there's a major difference of philosophy, more one of application.
    Did you value his participation and coaching? My wife was sporty, wanted her folks at all her games, but due to gender issues (parents really wanted a boy) she didn't get that. Her younger brother, on the other hand had my father in law coach his teams, etc., but really hated it because he perceived that his dad was harder on him than on the other kids and benched him often. Strange. A daughter who wanted more parental particpation and a son who thought there was too much.

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