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  1. #1
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    Windows 7 is out in beta

    Anyone have been testing this operating system yet? I'm still downloading it (via Microsoft's File Transfer process), but its supposed to be as good as Vista was bad.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Lamplight's Avatar
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    So I need to ditch 2000, get XP, skip Vista, and wait a couple of years and get 7.

  3. #3
    Senior Member bikebuddha's Avatar
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    Not willing to reconfigure any of my Ubuntu machines to try this yet.
    The few, the proud, the likely insane, Metro-Atlanta bicycle commuters.

  4. #4
    Look! My Spine! RubenX's Avatar
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    "Why make a new product when we could rename the old one". That's the word on the streets, might be wrong. Let us know how it works.

    I do wish they left some bugs. Something has to break in order for us (IT ppl) to survive.

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    I have an old IDE harddrive I was thinking about sticking in my machine to play with Windows 7 so I don't have to play with formating my current set up. Supposedly, you can run it on weaker machines, so I just might test that theory...

  6. #6
    Blasted Weeds Tude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lamplight View Post
    So I need to ditch 2000, get XP, skip Vista, and wait a couple of years and get 7.
    hehe was thinking the exact same thing!

  7. #7
    derailleurs are overrated bigbenaugust's Avatar
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    It probably sucks. Don't bother.
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    Current Linux Usage (by machine): Arch: I openSUSE: III

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    Once I get it downloaded, I'm going to put it on a hyper-v partition on a generic PC laptop, see how well it does in that environment. At the worst, all that I need to do is blow away the VM and its disk image. If it proves to be really good, I'll dump the laptop's contents and run it as the main OS.

    My philosophy is that I will be supporting the OS, both client and server 24/7 anyway, so might as well get intimate with it from the get-go, as I did with Vista and W2008.

  9. #9
    Gotta Catch em all! lanfarm's Avatar
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    My brother has it on his computer. He seems happy with it.
    Did you just kick my tire?! I hope you didn't just kick my tire!

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  10. #10
    AEO
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    Senior Member AEO's Avatar
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    I'm happy with my windows MCE w/ SP3.
    Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
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    I've been playing around with it. It pretty much is a definite step up from Vista in usability. BitLocker allows better encrypting of removable drives (though for it to provide more than token protection, you need a TPM chip on the machine's motherboard.) UAC can be selected of how often it pops up, and the defaults seem to be reasonable.

    All and all, not a bad step up.

  12. #12
    phony collective progress x136's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RubenX View Post
    I do wish they left some bugs. Something has to break in order for us (IT ppl) to survive.
    I really, really, really* doubt that'll be a problem.

    (* really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really)

  13. #13
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    Even if Windows 7 shipped perfectly, I will still be griping about the activation mechanism. Its really pointless.

    Pirates will always find a way to get around activation. Businesses are not going to be pirating Windows 7 because of the BSA.

    The BSA is simple. They come in, and will ask your company for the number of installed PCs and then ask for copies of invoices for every license of operating system and product. If the invoices show fewer copies than what is actually running, your company will either end up paying a steep ($50,000 on up) fine or just getting shut down proper. The BSA usually hits a company with an audit right after an employee gets fired or right after layoffs, because almost inevitably, anonymous tips of piracy start flowing into them after such an event.

    Between these two mechanisms, there is absolutely zero reason for product activation.

  14. #14
    phony collective progress x136's Avatar
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    Unless things have changed in a scary way in the last few years, the BSA has no direct authority, so you can tell them to stuff it at the front door. Of course, the small companies that the BSA tends (or tended) to attack can't afford to defend themselves from Micros--err, the BSA in court, so they go along with it.

  15. #15
    phony collective progress x136's Avatar
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    Senior Member Blue Roads's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlts22 View Post
    ... its supposed to be as good as Vista was bad.
    I've had Vista for a year at work and have it on a new computer at home. It's never once had so much as a hiccup. It works perfectly, every time, all day, every day.

    The problem with Vista didn't have anything to do with the OS, it was with the marketing and education. Appropriate hardware will make Vista perform very well.

    Windows 7 will likely be nice, though at least a couple of years out from now before most bugs are resolved.
    Train yourself to let go of everything you fear to lose.
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  17. #17
    Senior Member bikebuddha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Roads View Post
    I've had Vista for a year at work and have it on a new computer at home. It's never once had so much as a hiccup. It works perfectly, every time, all day, every day.

    The problem with Vista didn't have anything to do with the OS, it was with the marketing and education. Appropriate hardware will make Vista perform very well.

    Windows 7 will likely be nice, though at least a couple of years out from now before most bugs are resolved.
    I disagree, my daughter has a laptop running Vista and every so often it just kills certain drivers. And yes these are Vista drivers. Lovely eye candy though.
    The few, the proud, the likely insane, Metro-Atlanta bicycle commuters.

  18. #18
    Arsehole PlatyPius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikebuddha View Post
    I disagree, my daughter has a laptop running Vista and every so often it just kills certain drivers. And yes these are Vista drivers. Lovely eye candy though.
    Vista kills my network drivers pretty regularly. Sometimes they come back, sometimes they don't. I've had to reboot as many as 4 times in one day so I could connect to the internet again. This is a PC that came with, and was built for, Vista.

    Not impressed. Glad I stopped working in IT before any offices had Vista.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Blue Roads's Avatar
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    A cottage industry in Vista bashing sprang up for two reasons: a) due to the optimistic marketing and education, users misunderstood the real-world hardware requirements and are having issues; and b) folks like to bash Microsoft.

    When buying a new PC today, it's common to have access to 4 GB of RAM, a 500 GB hard drive, and a multi-core processor (though the latter won't work with Vista Home Basic) -- the probable base hardware set-up where Vista users should begin. Microsoft still recommends a minimum 1 GB RAM and a 40 GB hard drive in their literature, which is optimistic. This leads to "I've got what Microsoft recommends and my Vista computer doesn't work."

    With folks loading up music and video these days, a big hard drive can only be good. Further, 2 GB RAM is probably the minimum with 3 GB or 4 GB being better. Throw in a multi-core processor for good measure.

    It's difficult to assess individual PC and network issues here, and I'm sure there are folks with greater than the Microsoft published minimum hardware configuration who have issues, but from my personal home and business experience, and those of everybody I work with, Vista works fine.

    If Microsoft takes all of this into account, along with addressing known issues, Windows 7 will be a smoother release.
    Last edited by Blue Roads; 01-09-09 at 07:59 AM.
    Train yourself to let go of everything you fear to lose.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by x136 View Post
    Unless things have changed in a scary way in the last few years, the BSA has no direct authority, so you can tell them to stuff it at the front door. Of course, the small companies that the BSA tends (or tended) to attack can't afford to defend themselves from Micros--err, the BSA in court, so they go along with it.
    That is true. However, in a period of 3-4 hours, they will be back at your door with the constable, a motion of discovery, and a tort summons with some insanely high dollar amount attached to it. Especially with a smaller business (as you said) who don't have the armies of attorneys who can quash said subpoenas.

    Most judges, especially here in Texas (the state where all the patent lawsuits are filed in), are extremely pro-IP, so they will sign a subpoena very fast.

    This is why when I'm a sysadmin at a small firm, I keep a file cabinet of invoices on one hand, and some inventory management software (Net Octopus was what my last place of work used.) BSA comes a knocking, usually just showing that everything is in order, perhaps giving them a mass copy of everything gets them going. I have even had cases where the BSA guy just sees the file of invoices, sees even that the Macs and Linux boxes have OEM CD stickers present and doesn't even bother going further.

    The key is printed invoices by known sellers (I try to use CDW because they are good at having this documentation). Nothing else is acceptable.

    Another key when the long arm of the copyright law comes to visit: Make sure all PCs have an OEM sticker on them. Yes, even the Macs. This serves two purposes. First, Microsoft's VLK license stipulates that if a VLK image is used on a PC, it must have either a retail or OEM sticker present. Second, its a good faith matter, and in some cases gets the BSA people out of your hair when they realize they are in a shop that has its books covered.

    In most businesses, expect to find the BSA doing an inquiry after a round of layoffs. This is because ex-employees in my experience almost always will report any incidents of IP infringement that do exist, and even some that don't exist.

    In a medium size business, I highly recommend a software auditing utility that can be run from a central console. If a MS shop, SCOM comes to mind, otherwise there are other utilities that can do this. This way, you can handle an audit by having SCOM run a report against every machine weekly (and if someone is running something unlicensed even if its a rogue copy of WinRAR, license it or remove it), then when (not if) you get a knock on your business's door, it can be dealt with in minutes.

    In any case, I absolutely detest activation. Most businesses feel the same way. They pay their bucks for volume licenses for a reason (make an image, have it install and work.) In some companies, this actually is the reason they are staying with XP. No KMS servers, no infrastructure so every internal machine can re-activate every six months, just install it, make sure the sucker boots and becomes a domain member, and go to other pressing IT tasks like why the Exchange server is not replicating mailboxes.

  21. #21
    Senior Member bryroth's Avatar
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    I like vista.

  22. #22
    Portland Fred banerjek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlts22 View Post
    This is why when I'm a sysadmin at a small firm, I keep a file cabinet of invoices on one hand, and some inventory management software (Net Octopus was what my last place of work used.) BSA comes a knocking, usually just showing that everything is in order, perhaps giving them a mass copy of everything gets them going. I have even had cases where the BSA guy just sees the file of invoices, sees even that the Macs and Linux boxes have OEM CD stickers present and doesn't even bother going further.
    Some businesses really require a lot of different kinds of software, and just managing the licenses can really burn up a lot of time. This is one of the draws of open source software. I'm glad I don't have to do hardly much IT anymore.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Capridrifter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by x136 View Post
    Unless things have changed in a scary way in the last few years, the BSA has no direct authority, so you can tell them to stuff it at the front door. Of course, the small companies that the BSA tends (or tended) to attack can't afford to defend themselves from Micros--err, the BSA in court, so they go along with it.
    I'd tell em to shove it even if all my machines are legal which according to microshaft they are....Then when they try and do something about it I'd show the cops that they have no right to my personal info and that all my stuff is indeed "legal"
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  24. #24
    RustyTainte substructure's Avatar
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    somewhatofftopic:

    Tell me when AutoCad 2010 comes out. 2009 is a nasty beast.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capridrifter View Post
    I'd tell em to shove it even if all my machines are legal which according to microshaft they are....Then when they try and do something about it I'd show the cops that they have no right to my personal info and that all my stuff is indeed "legal"
    The good thing: The BSA is mainly a business organization. They don't go after individuals unless the individual is doing something really stupid (making counterfeit copies of Microsoft products to sell to people, box and all.)

    The bad news for businesses: These are not criminal proceedings. If it were police asking, they would need a search warrant. These are civil proceedings, where a judge or a jury just has to find the person a hair more guilty than not to find for the plaintiff.

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