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Old 03-13-09, 01:34 PM   #1
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Air Travel and birdstrikes.

with summer comes more air travel.. Some of us are more inclined to be nervous travelers and find the airport bar an excellant location for a beer . Since the Hudson River airline crash, anyone here check out the number of birds about, before dropping off the car.. ?.
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Old 03-13-09, 01:37 PM   #2
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I know I am definitely thinking twice and more about air travel in heavy winter ... - the plane that went down in Buffalo (near me) did it for me.
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Old 03-13-09, 01:58 PM   #3
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I'm ok to fly as long as Sully is the captain. He'll be handling every domestic flight from now on, right?
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Old 03-13-09, 02:06 PM   #4
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with summer comes more air travel.. Some of us are more inclined to be nervous travelers and find the airport bar an excellant location for a beer . Since the Hudson River airline crash, anyone here check out the number of birds about, before dropping off the car.. ?.
That was not technically a crash. It was an off-airport, gear up landing. They will be able to use the plane again, so by definition, it was a GREAT landing:

1) Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing
2) Any landing you can walk away from and still use the plane is a GREAT landing

1549 is indeed being considered an "Accident" as opposed to an "Incident." But still...

Not all bird strikes are problematic

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Old 03-13-09, 02:09 PM   #5
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with summer comes more air travel.. Some of us are more inclined to be nervous travelers and find the airport bar an excellant location for a beer . Since the Hudson River airline crash, anyone here check out the number of birds about, before dropping off the car.. ?.
Honestly, the best thing is to just not worry freak occurrences like that. But to give you a little peace of mind here's a few facts:

* During the 20 year period from 1998 through 2007, the odds of a passenger being killed in a given flight were 1 in 6.2 million. In other words, 99.999984% of passengers complete their trip safely. Bird strikes are one of the less common causes of fatal accidents in commercial aviation.

* Airplane engines (and other critical parts) are tested for ability to withstand bird strikes by firing a 4 pound bird carcass from a cannon into the engine while running at full speed.

* Commercial airliners can safely fly with an engine out. The US Airways flight was unfortunate enough to take hits to each engine from very large birds. It basically straight through a flock of geese.

* 65% of bird strikes cause no appreciable damage. Of those that do, most are minor issues like dents.

* Airports take measures to reduce the number of birds in their airspace, including mowing grass to reduce the inviting habitat, cleaning up carrion, using scarecrows, noisemakers, and even trained falcons.
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Old 03-13-09, 02:12 PM   #6
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That was not technically a crash. It was an off-airport, gear up landing. They will be able to use the plane again, so by definition, it was a GREAT landing:
Are you sure they're going to fix the plane up? I don't doubt that it's possible, but there was significant damage to at least one wing, and the underbelly was pretty badly beat up. Repairs are expensive, and planes typically end up a little heavier afterwards, meaning they cost more to operate.
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Old 03-13-09, 02:21 PM   #7
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Well, the number of birds (i.e. the risk of a strike) is already being modeled and the products are in use at most airports as far as I know.
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Old 03-13-09, 02:29 PM   #8
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Two factors that influenced me.. I googled birdstrikes.. Birds fly as high as 30,000 ft.. I would have thought there was insufficient oxygen up there. And, use Wiki to learn about ground transportation for trips we are planning to take in the near future.. Wiki has a section of accidents and near accidents at any given airport.. Airports we'll be frequenting this summer have had incidents of bird strikes. I know some of these airports have thousands of landings each day. I've always thought birds stay below a thousand feet. Wiki says not so.
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Old 03-13-09, 02:47 PM   #9
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on take off airplanes ascend quickly to get above the bird strike zone.
flying is not so hazardous, the landings and takeoffs are much more so.
In fact, many bird strikes are quite harmless and don't cause the airplane to crash, especially airliners, because of the redundancies of having two engines or more.

this is what happens on a majority of flights that suffer BASH: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KhZwsYtNDE


if you really want to, you can search for 'aircrash investigations' on youtube to really unnerve you about air travel.
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Old 03-13-09, 02:50 PM   #10
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I'll take flying over driving any day. I would rather be jammed into an uncomfortable seat and be at my destination in 4 hours instead of driving all day. Plus, flying is safer. I'll take the plane.
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Old 03-13-09, 02:52 PM   #11
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the majority of bird strikes occur way under 30,000ft.
under 1200ft is where the majority of it occurs and within 100ft is the vast majority of that.
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Old 03-13-09, 02:53 PM   #12
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if you really want to, you can search for 'aircrash investigations' on youtube to really unnerve you about air travel.
^... No thanks.. I have a retired friend who was a metallurgist for Ford Motor Company. He has even investigated a couple aircraft crashes. He won't fly.. Ah, He's just a worry wort... When we've run into each other in the bars and he's brought up the subject, I just change the subject asap.
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Old 03-13-09, 02:55 PM   #13
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Two factors that influenced me.. I googled birdstrikes.. Birds fly as high as 30,000 ft.. I would have thought there was insufficient oxygen up there. And, use Wiki to learn about ground transportation for trips we are planning to take in the near future.. Wiki has a section of accidents and near accidents at any given airport.. Airports we'll be frequenting this summer have had incidents of bird strikes. I know some of these airports have thousands of landings each day. I've always thought birds stay below a thousand feet. Wiki says not so.
Most birdstrikes happen at low altitude because, yes, birds generally stay pretty low. Very few birds can even reach 30,000 feet, much less feel any compulsion to go there, and they're seldom spotted up there. Of course, most airplanes spend most of their time at those high, nearly bird-free altitudes.

Most airports have the occasional bird strike. San Francisco has dozens per year for example, but I pretty sure there's ever been a bird strike related fatality at that airport. As I mentioned above, the majority of bird strikes don't cause any noteworthy damage, and of those that do, the overwhelming majority land safely.

Something you may also have heard is that airline flying is safer that driving. I've checked the numbers myself. Your odds of dying on a flight are about the same per trip as driving, but per mile or per hour its much safer, and at the same time, most people make far more trips per car than they do in a plane.

Still, you're far from alone about being nervous. A lot of (most?) people worry about flying because when there are accidents, they're dramatic and make headlines, as well as because they're not used to it, planes don't move in the same way, and there is a sense of not having control of the flight.
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Old 03-13-09, 02:56 PM   #14
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Lucky, maint. quality is on the decline. I was on a flight that had to make an emergency landing due to smoke in the cabin. My roommate has had to spend an extra day in south america several times due to plane issues. Once he was on a plane circling for 3 hours to burn off enough fuel to land. Real WTF moment there. Not dangerous enough to land for, but they won't spend those 3 hours getting a little closer to home.

My smoke in the cabin incident exposed me to who the hell knows what chemical fumes, and definitely worsened my health issues but sadly I can't prove that 100% so I can't make the *******s at Delta pay for the 6 months I had to take off of work because of it. Even now I'm barely holding onto my spot in school and that's mostly because I know I'm screwed without the health insurance.
maintenance in south america is not the same as north america, there's a difference in budget.
generally more developed countries suffer less from poor maintenance than less developed.
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Old 03-13-09, 02:57 PM   #15
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When I visit my boyfriend between driving to the airport, security, delays, layovers, etc. I save at most 3 hours. 12 hour drive, 4 hours "in the air" and 4 or 5 dealing with people that assume I am a terrorist until they have been able to severely invade my privacy.
True, but then again, you don't have to travel with an ADD/ADHD/hyperactive/knows-how-to-push-your-button 6-year old..:fight1:
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Old 03-13-09, 02:59 PM   #16
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Most birdstrikes happen at low altitude because, yes, birds generally stay pretty low. Very few birds can even reach 30,000 feet, much less feel any compulsion to go there, and they're seldom spotted up there. Of course, most airplanes spend most of their time at those high, nearly bird-free altitudes.

Most airports have the occasional bird strike. San Francisco has dozens per year for example, but I pretty sure there's ever been a bird strike related fatality at that airport. As I mentioned above, the majority of bird strikes don't cause any noteworthy damage, and of those that do, the overwhelming majority land safely.

Something you may also have heard is that airline flying is safer that driving. I've checked the numbers myself. Your odds of dying on a flight are about the same per trip as driving, but per mile or per hour its much safer, and at the same time, most people make far more trips per car than they do in a plane.

Still, you're far from alone about being nervous. A lot of (most?) people worry about flying because when there are accidents, they're dramatic and make headlines, as well as because they're not used to it, planes don't move in the same way, and there is a sense of not having control of the flight.
also has to do with the "OMG, I'm not in control of the vehicle" aspect as well as the 'we're screwed if this falls out of the sky because of the altitude and speed it's flying at'
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Old 03-13-09, 03:00 PM   #17
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for those who are worried about flying, you probably don't want to know that boeing is saying that all 777 planes need to be fixed since they all have the same design flaw in the rolls royce engines and this crash can potentially happen to all 777

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7598267.stm
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Old 03-13-09, 03:00 PM   #18
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The US is quickly turning into a less developed country. At least in my experiences with domestic flight. I'd much rather ride my motorcycle to my destination.
time to choose a different airline.
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Old 03-13-09, 03:02 PM   #19
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Lucky, maint. quality is on the decline. I was on a flight that had to make an emergency landing due to smoke in the cabin. My roommate has had to spend an extra day in south america several times due to plane issues. Once he was on a plane circling for 3 hours to burn off enough fuel to land. Real WTF moment there. Not dangerous enough to land for, but they won't spend those 3 hours getting a little closer to home.

My smoke in the cabin incident exposed me to who the hell knows what chemical fumes, and definitely worsened my health issues but sadly I can't prove that 100% so I can't make the *******s at Delta pay for the 6 months I had to take off of work because of it. Even now I'm barely holding onto my spot in school and that's mostly because I know I'm screwed without the health insurance.
That's a common perception, but even the rate of maintenance-related accidents has been consistently declining over the years. Your case was unnerving I'm sure, but rare. I won't try to make any judgements on what the smoke might have been. If you're pretty sure you were exposed to something harmful, however, you should try to contact other passengers on that flight (not easy, I admit) to see if anyone else suffered any ill effects. If multiple people experienced similar symptoms, that's a pretty compelling case.
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Old 03-13-09, 03:03 PM   #20
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No, I have to dodge the idiot trying to slap the kid that's sitting in the back seat of the SUV.

Kids are another reason I don't fly. It should be legal to murder them if they won't shut up on a flight.
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Old 03-13-09, 03:03 PM   #21
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Bah, try heavy turbulence in a commuter jet, plane practically falls for a dead second mid climb. Ugh.

As far as statistics go, still much safer than driving, at least in developed countries.


Out of all the flying I've been doing, bird strikes are low on the list, a single bird strike can easily be taken care of, a double bird strike is nearly unheard of.


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That was not technically a crash. It was an off-airport, gear up landing. They will be able to use the plane again, so by definition, it was a GREAT landing:

1) Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing
2) Any landing you can walk away from and still use the plane is a GREAT landing

1549 is indeed being considered an "Accident" as opposed to an "Incident." But still...

Not all bird strikes are problematic

No way, there is way too much water damage, it would be cheaper to sell it for scrap and buy a new one as opposed to all the building, testing, and inspections.
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Old 03-13-09, 03:05 PM   #22
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maintenance in south america is not the same as north america, there's a difference in budget.
generally more developed countries suffer less from poor maintenance than less developed.

do you have so much faith in commecial corporations in a time of recession where they were already faced with bankruptcy even before the recession? cutting costs/corners would never cross the mind of executives in noble big business in developed countries as we have seen


salmonella peanut anyone?

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Old 03-13-09, 03:05 PM   #23
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for those who are worried about flying, you probably don't want to know that boeing is saying that all 777 planes need to be fixed since they all have the same design flaw in the rolls royce engines and this crash can potentially happen to all 777

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7598267.stm
Are not airlines required to post the type of aircraft chosen for each flight in advance of any given flight. I am ok on most flights. It's just the first and last 15 minutes. After that, the bars open. Strangewill. Look to skies.. Those Canadian geese are like cyclists in a peloton.. They fly in tight formations.
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Old 03-13-09, 03:06 PM   #24
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I've tried almost all of them. US is the only one I will fly when forced too. Delta I will never touch again.
I've flown with Delta all the time, last flight had a great pilot for the conditions.
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Old 03-13-09, 03:07 PM   #25
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Are not airlines required to post the type of aircraft chosen for each flight in advance of any given flight. I am ok on most flights. It's just the first and last 15 minutes. After that, the bars open.
would you cancel your ticket if you find that your scheduled flight is a particular type of plane?
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