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Old 03-25-09, 08:35 AM   #1
LastPlace
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History Question

I am in need of a good history forum. I have tried 'Googling' my question and even history forums but can only find small forums with a few posters at best. Of course nothing beats BF for the number and quality of posters.

The question is about 'Raffles' during the revolutionary war years. I have been told that raffels were used to pay malitias but can't find any supporting evidence. Any help would be appreciated.........


About the bike......the commuter is in the shop getting its 'road geared crankset'.....say that three times....replaced with a 22-32-44 mountain gearset because of continuing knee problems. I have had cortisone(sp) injections and am moving to a product that was origionally made from rooster combs but after that it is partial or total knee replacements......and maybe no more riding.
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Old 03-25-09, 09:01 AM   #2
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Most of us around here are Americans. We don't need no stinking history.
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Old 03-25-09, 09:13 AM   #3
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I am in need of a good history forum. I have tried 'Googling' my question and even history forums but can only find small forums with a few posters at best. Of course nothing beats BF for the number and quality of posters.

The question is about 'Raffles' during the revolutionary war years. I have been told that raffels were used to pay malitias but can't find any supporting evidence. Any help would be appreciated.........


About the bike......the commuter is in the shop getting its 'road geared crankset'.....say that three times....replaced with a 22-32-44 mountain gearset because of continuing knee problems. I have had cortisone(sp) injections and am moving to a product that was origionally made from rooster combs but after that it is partial or total knee replacements......and maybe no more riding.
Wouldn't any "raffle" be of land and held by the state? Pennsylvania, for instance, was still very much Penn's woods, and there were thousands of acres of unsettled land in the Commonwealth.
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Old 03-25-09, 09:18 AM   #4
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I vaguely remember reading something about raffles being used to finance the revolutionary war.

Sounds like a trip to the library is in order.
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Old 03-25-09, 09:26 AM   #5
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Most of us around here are Americans. We don't need no stinking history.
We Americans were spoon fed the sanitized version of history for 12 years in our schools. That's good enough for most of us. Besides, it keeps us aligned properly.
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Old 03-25-09, 09:30 AM   #6
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I know that Ben Franklin used lotteries to finance the purchase of cannons for the Revolutionary War. In the Autobiography of Ben Franklin, Chapter Ten, he discussed using a lottery to furnish a cannon:
"The officers of the companies composing the Philadelphia regiment, being met, chose me for their colonel; but, conceiving myself unfit, I declin'd that station, and recommended Mr. Lawrence, a fine person, and man of influence, who was accordingly appointed. I then propos'd a lottery to defray the expense of building a battery below the town, and furnishing it with cannon. It filled expeditiously, and the battery was soon erected, the merlons being fram'd of logs and fill'd with earth. We bought some old cannon from Boston, but, these not being sufficient, we wrote to England for more, soliciting, at the same time, our proprietaries for some assistance, tho' without much expectation of obtaining it."

And if I remember correctly, prior to the 1790s there were only a handful of incorporated banks. So, lotteries were used for financing many public projects. Wait a minute and let me check on the history of lotteries: Ah, yes.... http://www.naspl.org/index.cfm?fusea...ageCategory=11
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Old 03-25-09, 09:39 AM   #7
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http://www.maine.gov/sos/arc/edu/turner/civilwar.htm
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Old 03-25-09, 09:39 AM   #8
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And if I remember correctly, prior to the 1790s there were only a handful of incorporated banks.
And they would have been approved by each individual colony, later state, and would have handled state currencies.
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Old 03-25-09, 09:40 AM   #9
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I don't know about the Rev War solider pay thing but lotteries was a common way of financing Pennsylvania canal construction in the 1820's and 1830's.

From my reading on the Rev War most were paid off in land grants. A good bit of the land above Williamsport and to the West of that town originally went as land grants to Rev War veterans. I have two good books on PA history so if I get time today or tomorrow I'll see what I can find.
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Old 03-25-09, 10:06 AM   #10
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Looking at:
Pennsylvania
The Colonial Years
1681 - 1776
Joseph J. Kelly, Jr.

As NOS88 mentioned. The lotteries were run to raise money for arms during what we call the French & Indian War.
Ben Franklin was considered to be a specialist at setting these lotteries up.
At the end of the F&I War there was a lottery to pay off a group of rangers who had operated against the Indians on the colony's western frontier.

Pennsylvania was run by the Quakers in Philly. Anytime the Indians became restless the Assembly would give "gifts" to the Indians. Deficit financing was not allowed. The Quaker Assembly would then tax either alcohol or tobacco to raise the required funds. And since they were the merchants supplying the "gifts" they got the profits.

At the close of the F&I War a number of churches were also using lotteries to raise funds for expansion of the churches.

There was no state run military force at the time. Groups known as Associations or Regulators were raised by private citizens, such as Franklin, to defend the colony against the Indians. During the F&I War English troops were not always available so groups of private citizens often defended the colony. A so-called "well reulated" militia does not show up until a good bit later in PA history.

Now I'll see if the other book has anything relative to troop payment.
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Old 03-25-09, 10:38 AM   #11
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Back in my college days, when ever my frat needed money we held a raffle. There was this one guy, Rocky Barufi, from Brooklyn, NY, that won almost all of them. Lucky guy, that Rocky.
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Old 03-25-09, 10:40 AM   #12
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As for troop payment, it was often long in arrears. One of the fears at the end of the war was that the Continental Army would seize control of the government until they were paid which could have taken years. George Washington put a stop to any impulses in that direction.
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Old 03-25-09, 10:47 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by LastPlace View Post
.

The question is about 'Raffles' during the revolutionary war years. I have been told that raffels were used to pay malitias but can't find any supporting evidence. Any help would be appreciated.........
Here ya' go.

http://www.historyoflottery.com/american_lotteries.html

http://www.lotteryflorida.net/lotter...otteries.shtml
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Old 03-25-09, 01:58 PM   #14
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We Americans were spoon fed the sanitized version of history for 12 years in our schools. That's good enough for most of us. Besides, it keeps us aligned properly.
Yes, for instance, who was the first president of the United States? (Hint: it wasn't George Washington, which is what we were all taught.)
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Old 03-25-09, 02:38 PM   #15
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Yes, for instance, who was the first president of the United States? (Hint: it wasn't George Washington, which is what we were all taught.)
I guess this all depends on when the United States came into existence. If you go with the Articles of Confederation, then Washington would not be the first. However, I believe we are governed by the Constitution, in which case Washington is the first. And, I think a reasonable argument can be made that the Constitution did indeed create a new government.
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Old 03-25-09, 02:48 PM   #16
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Yes, for instance, who was the first president of the United States? (Hint: it wasn't George Washington, which is what we were all taught.)
John Hanson was the first president of the continental Congress.

At least I think so. That's what they taught me in Jr. High School. I went to John Hanson Jr. High School. If ever there was such a den of scum and villainy. We must be cautious.
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Old 03-25-09, 02:50 PM   #17
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Does Jeopardy have their own forum?
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Old 03-25-09, 02:51 PM   #18
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Thanks for all the help and all the references. Really sorry that I couldn't turn this up on my own.

I guess my thought that houses were raffled off was a bit incorrect and it was really lotteries that were used instead.

Thanks again and don't hesitate to pass along anything else that comes up.

Now if you folks can just come up with a way to pay for getting the new crankset that I mentioned in my first post.......
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