Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Foo Off-Topic chit chat with no general subject.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-23-09, 11:54 PM   #1
Lamplight
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Lamplight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Bellingham, WA
Bikes:
Posts: 2,772
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The universe is big

Well, big may be a slight understatement...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...sg/spaceb2.jpg

So what might the odds be of some sort of life existing on other planets? Any ideas?
Lamplight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-09, 11:56 PM   #2
CbadRider
Administrator
 
CbadRider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: On the bridge with Picard
Bikes: Specialized Allez, Specialized Sirrus
Posts: 5,963
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I'm sure there is life on other planets out there. It would be silly not to think so.

As soon as we develop warp drive we'll meet them. Until then it's up to them to find us first.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerum 525 View Post
Now get on your cheap bike and give me a double century. You walking can of Crisco!!

Forum Guidelines *click here*
CbadRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-09, 11:59 PM   #3
Wordbiker
Pwnerer
 
Wordbiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Pagosa Springs, CO, USA
Bikes: Road, MTB, Cruiser, Chopper, BMX
Posts: 2,907
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
There may be life on other planets, but I bet they'll hide once they know we're coming.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahsposo View Post
Ski, bike and wish I was gay.
Wordbiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-09, 12:05 AM   #4
Big_e
Strong with the Fred
 
Big_e's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Dallas, TX
Bikes:
Posts: 970
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
We got some crazy looking creatures working up were I work at so I'd be very surprised if there weren't different lifeforms on other planets.
Ernest
Big_e is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-09, 12:40 AM   #5
gnome 
shaken, not stirred.
 
gnome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Shaky Isles.
Bikes: I've lost count.
Posts: 2,960
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
We are very small.

Of course, given the size of the universe there will be life out there somewhere. What type of life, I can't even begin to guess. The chances of us finding that life and recognising it as life are virtually nil.
__________________
Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live. ~Mark Twain, "Taming the Bicycle"
vBulletin: snafu
gnome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-09, 04:31 AM   #6
rm -rf
don't try this at home.
 
rm -rf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: N. KY
Bikes:
Posts: 3,627
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
The Hubble Deep Field is a region of the northern celestial hemisphere about one 30-millionth the area of the sky that contains at least 1,500 faint galaxies.

The region was imaged by NASA's Hubble Space Telescope in 1995 and is equivalent in apparent size to a shirt button held 75 feet (22.86 meters) away. The region is so small that only a few foreground stars from the Milky Way are visible in the image. If the Hubble Deep Field is typical of the rest of space, then it can be extrapolated that there are hundreds of billions of galaxies, each containing billions of stars within the visible universe alone.
See the full size image here. 3069 3005 pixels

A portion of the whole image:

rm -rf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-09, 05:43 AM   #7
pgoat
Batw Griekgriek
 
pgoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: NYC - for the moment...
Bikes: 1985 Trek 500, 1986 Trek 500 Tri Series, 2002 Orbea Team Euskaltel, 2005 Cannondale R1000
Posts: 2,897
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CbadRider View Post
I'm sure there is life on other planets out there. It would be silly not to think so.

As soon as we develop warp drive we'll meet them. Until then it's up to them to find us first.
let's just hope it's not the Borg
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsharr View Post
People whose sig line does not include a jsharr quote annoy me.
pgoat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-09, 06:02 AM   #8
redirekib
I ain't no newbie
 
redirekib's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: The Goddard Institute - Area 51-Skunk Works Division - Space Age Materials Lab
Bikes:
Posts: 1,189
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Too bad there isn't enough matter to hold it all together. Like pcad trying to hang onto the Nyack ride.

Last edited by redirekib; 05-25-09 at 03:51 AM.
redirekib is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-09, 07:24 AM   #9
Lamplight
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Lamplight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Bellingham, WA
Bikes:
Posts: 2,772
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnome View Post
The chances of us finding that life and recognising it as life are virtually nil.
Unfortunately you're probably right. Even if we could travel at the speed of light, the Milky Way alone is about 100,000 light years in diameter. We'd have to be able to travel many times the speed of light just to explore our own galaxy (at least bodily), and it is estimated that there are hundreds of billions of gallaxies besides ours. It's almost impossible to fully grasp that.
Lamplight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-09, 07:28 AM   #10
UnsafeAlpine
Domestic Domestique
 
UnsafeAlpine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Michigan
Bikes: Brand New Old Catamount! Schwinn Homegrown, Specialized FSR, Salsa Vaya, Salsa Chile Con Crosso
Posts: 1,742
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The chances of life existing outside of us is pretty good. The chances that we'll run into it someday is incredibly tiny. The chances that the life is sentient is even smaller.

I would love for us to really encounter a race that we could communicate with, that we could discuss the universe with, talk about life and gain incredible amounts of knowledge...
UnsafeAlpine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-09, 07:33 AM   #11
cyclezealot
Senior Member
 
cyclezealot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Fallbrook,Calif./Palau del Vidre, France
Bikes: Klein QP, Fuji touring, Surly Cross Check, BCH City bike
Posts: 13,166
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Our explorations of Mars still has not discounted the possibility of algae being there. next explorer might take a stab at it.
__________________
Pray for the Dead and Fight like Hell for the Living






^ Since January 1, 2012
cyclezealot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-09, 07:37 AM   #12
Spreggy
King of the Plukers
 
Spreggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: On the bus.
Bikes:
Posts: 876
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I'm looking forward to seeing new images after the recent upgrades.
Spreggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-09, 07:53 AM   #13
late
Senior Member
 
late's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Southern Maine
Bikes:
Posts: 8,377
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
I so want a president to say, 'This is bogus, we need warp drive'.

Oh, well.
late is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-09, 08:05 AM   #14
Michigander
Senior Member
 
Michigander's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Bikes: Giant ATX 1200, Schwinn Peleton
Posts: 1,724
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Believing our little planet contains the only intelligent life would be stupid beyond words. The problem is interacting with other intelligent life is almost impossible.

Consider all the variables. When a species gets so smart that it can develop space crafts way beyond what the 1st world governments admit to having, they will also develop the means to obliterate the entire planet with nukes or similar devices. Will they be mature enough not to? How long will their life spans be, and how long will the trip take? Will they want to leave behind everyone they know just to come visit us? Will they be anywhere near close enough to earth for the trip to be feasible?

It took us so many thousands of years to get to where we are now. Now that we on earth have this technology, short sighted greed, apathy, and viciousness on the largest scales possible is very common among humans, and it's hard to say where we'll be in 200 years. If that is a natural way for intelligent creatures to conduct themselves, it may be very rare for intelligent life from different planets to interact together, because societies of intelligent creatures may just destroy themselves very shortly after getting truly advanced.
__________________
Bring back the Sig Test!


(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
Michigander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-09, 12:01 PM   #15
Lamplight
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Lamplight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Bellingham, WA
Bikes:
Posts: 2,772
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
Consider all the variables. When a species gets so smart that it can develop space crafts way beyond what the 1st world governments admit to having, they will also develop the means to obliterate the entire planet with nukes or similar devices. Will they be mature enough not to? How long will their life spans be, and how long will the trip take? Will they want to leave behind everyone they know just to come visit us? Will they be anywhere near close enough to earth for the trip to be feasible?
Also, such advanced lifeforms could explore the universe for eons and still never stumble upon us, unless they had developed a way to detect all life in the universe. And even then, would they bother studying us? Would we appear so incredibly primitive in comparison that they would seek out other, more advanced lifeforms first? On the other hand, we're fascinated at the prospect of algae on Mars, so maybe there's hope.
Lamplight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-09, 12:26 PM   #16
UnsafeAlpine
Domestic Domestique
 
UnsafeAlpine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Michigan
Bikes: Brand New Old Catamount! Schwinn Homegrown, Specialized FSR, Salsa Vaya, Salsa Chile Con Crosso
Posts: 1,742
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamplight View Post
Also, such advanced lifeforms could explore the universe for eons and still never stumble upon us, unless they had developed a way to detect all life in the universe. And even then, would they bother studying us? Would we appear so incredibly primitive in comparison that they would seek out other, more advanced lifeforms first? On the other hand, we're fascinated at the prospect of algae on Mars, so maybe there's hope.
I can't remember who said it, but the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that it hasn't tried to contact us yet.
UnsafeAlpine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-09, 01:37 PM   #17
rm -rf
don't try this at home.
 
rm -rf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: N. KY
Bikes:
Posts: 3,627
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamplight View Post
Also, such advanced lifeforms could explore the universe for eons and still never stumble upon us, unless they had developed a way to detect all life in the universe. And even then, would they bother studying us? Would we appear so incredibly primitive in comparison that they would seek out other, more advanced lifeforms first? On the other hand, we're fascinated at the prospect of algae on Mars, so maybe there's hope.

from the short story They're made out of Meat
"They're made out of meat."

"Meat?"

"Meat. They're made out of meat."

"Meat?"

"There's no doubt about it. We picked several from different parts of the planet, took them aboard our recon vessels, probed them all the way through. They're completely meat."

"That's impossible. What about the radio signals? The messages to the stars."

"They use the radio waves to talk, but the signals don't come from them. The signals come from machines."

"So who made the machines? That's who we want to contact."

...
rm -rf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-09, 06:23 PM   #18
Poppaspoke
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Bikes: LeMond Zurich
Posts: 604
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The probability of intelligent extraterrestrial life was formulated by astronomer Frank Drake in 1960.

The Drake equation states that;



where:
N is the number of civilizations in our galaxy with which communication might be possible;
and
R* is the average rate of star formation per year in our galaxy
fp is the fraction of those stars that have planets
ne is the average number of planets that can potentially support life per star that has planets
fℓ is the fraction of the above that actually go on to develop life at some point
fi is the fraction of the above that actually go on to develop intelligent life
fc is the fraction of civilizations that develop a technology that releases detectable signs of their existence into space
L is the length of time such civilizations release detectable signals into space."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation

"Considerable disagreement on the values of most of these parameters exists, but the values used by Drake and his colleagues in 1961 were:
R* = 10/year (10 stars formed per year, on the average over the life of the galaxy)
fp = 0.5 (half of all stars formed will have planets)
ne = 2 (stars with planets will have 2 planets capable of supporting life)
fl = 1 (100% of these planets will develop life)
fi = 0.01 (1% of which will be intelligent life)
fc = 0.01 (1% of which will be able to communicate)
L = 10,000 years (which will last 10,000 years)
Drake's values give N = 10 0.5 2 1 0.01 0.01 10,000 = 10."

Drake's conclusion is that there is a probability of ten civilizations in our galaxy with which we might communicate. Since a number of these factors involve unknown or estimated quantities, Drake's estimated value of N may be off by many orders of magnitude, high or low.
Poppaspoke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-09, 06:37 PM   #19
iamlucky13
Footballus vita est
 
iamlucky13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Bikes: Trek 4500, Kona Dawg
Posts: 2,118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
Believing our little planet contains the only intelligent life would be stupid beyond words. The problem is interacting with other intelligent life is almost impossible.
It's no more stupid than believing with certainty that there are other intelligent life forms out there (or perhaps even other life in general). The problem is we have no information that allows us to make a truly educated guess. Sure the universe is huge, but at the limits of what we can see, which are not quite trivial, there's no one else out there. So we're left trying to rectify a nearly limitless universe with one that appears to be nearly empty (except for us).

I'm surprised no else has posted the Drake equation yet*. It's fundamentally very simple. It says merely that the number of intelligent civilizations we can expect to discover (via whatever means, including just radio contact) depends on just seven variables, such as the rate of star formation, the percentage of stars with planets, the percentage of planets with any life at all, the length of time a civilization exists, etc.

I've seen uncountably many people take the Drake equation and say "let's suppose...." Some are conservative and say even if all these variables are only x (x being some arbitrarily small number), then the Drake equation proves (because again, it's fundamentally simple) that there would be at least F(x) civilizations in the universe.

But such supposition is baseless because of the seven variables in the Drake equation, we only have a decent estimate on one of them (rate of star formation). We are starting to develop an estimate on a second (proportion of stars with planets). Of the remaining 5, we can only say with certainty that 1 of them is non-zero, because we exist, but it obviously needs to be at least 2 for us to discover anyone else.

The Drake equation is a nice mathematical expression of philosophical musings, but we have basically no clue what the value of five of it's variables are. If any of them are zero, we'll never find other intelligent life.


* EDIT - Apparently great minds don't just think alike, but they do so at the same time.
__________________
"The internet is a place where absolutely nothing happens. You need to take advantage of that." ~ Strong Bad
iamlucky13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-09, 06:43 PM   #20
AEO
Senior Member
 
AEO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: A Coffin Called Earth. or Toronto, ON
Bikes: Bianchi, Miyata, Dahon, Rossin
Posts: 12,258
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
if there are other life forms out there, I sure hope they come visit us soon. who knows how much longer we're going to be around for.
__________________
Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
http://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...ger-photos.htm
AEO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-09, 07:01 PM   #21
iamlucky13
Footballus vita est
 
iamlucky13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Bikes: Trek 4500, Kona Dawg
Posts: 2,118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rm -rf View Post
from the short story They're made out of Meat
Classic! It's scifi stories like this that make me miss the 50's...notwithstanding the fact that I was born in the 80's.
__________________
"The internet is a place where absolutely nothing happens. You need to take advantage of that." ~ Strong Bad
iamlucky13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-09, 07:03 PM   #22
DataJunkie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 14,280
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Pshaw...

It is a mere 1000 sq ft wide. That just happens to be the 1000 sq ft I am occupying at any given moment. Y'all are figments of my imagination.
DataJunkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-09, 07:08 PM   #23
bigfred 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NZ
Bikes: More than 1, but, less than S-1
Posts: 3,834
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AEO View Post
if there are other life forms out there, I sure hope they come visit us soon. who knows how much longer we're going to be around for.
We're going to be around for a while. As a species we are reasonably adaptable. However, the real questions are: How small a population of us in sustainable? And, how are the other inhabitants of the planet going to react if ever larger portions of the population become refugees? If the wet areas get wetter, with additional flooding to the great river plains of food production, and if the dryer areas experience increasing draught. How will the remaining temperate locations and populations respond to 100 of millions of dislocated people for whom they can not provide sufficient food?
__________________
Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.
bigfred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-09, 07:23 PM   #24
phantyk
Senior Member
 
phantyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Bikes: CAAD 9
Posts: 90
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnsafeAlpine View Post
I can't remember who said it, but the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that it hasn't tried to contact us yet.
I know calvin and hobbes said that in one strip. I love that comic...

Edit: Found the comic!

Last edited by phantyk; 05-24-09 at 07:31 PM.
phantyk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-09, 07:55 PM   #25
Wordbiker
Pwnerer
 
Wordbiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Pagosa Springs, CO, USA
Bikes: Road, MTB, Cruiser, Chopper, BMX
Posts: 2,907
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
Believing our little planet contains intelligent life would be stupid beyond words.
Accurized that for ya.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahsposo View Post
Ski, bike and wish I was gay.
Wordbiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:18 AM.