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Old 07-02-09, 03:04 PM   #1
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MJ- Impact on Music

We were discussing the overwhelming nature of his popularity along with his degree of talent and other such nonsense. Of course when talking about him, it's hard to ignore the topic he is so famous for but we must attempt to do so so we don't offend. OK by me. Discuss MJ sans the kids thing please.

I heard a mighty strange thing on Larry King last night. A nurse claiming he asked for some strange sedative that required an IV and constant supervision.

Was also watching a clip of the kids getting selected as dancers for his tour. It was a chance of a lifetime. They went from likely the highest point in their lives to the lowest in a flash. Can't help but feel bad for them.
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Old 07-02-09, 07:01 PM   #2
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Good lord, could I please turn on my television for 1 second without seeing this idiot?
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Old 07-02-09, 07:05 PM   #3
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Old 07-02-09, 07:28 PM   #4
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well, his investment in the beatles record rights was quite well.
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Old 07-02-09, 08:45 PM   #5
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my opinon, fwiw is that he had an absolutely incredible voice and musical intuition as a child. He was always an amazing performer back then and that carried well into the mid 80s. I realize Thriller sold a gajillion copies but I thought it was simply well crafted mainstream pop. No 'genius' there...

But it's my contention he lost a lot musically after puberty and made up for it with his incredible dancing ability.


Then again, what the hell do i know?
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Old 07-03-09, 06:11 AM   #6
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my opinon, fwiw is that he had an absolutely incredible voice and musical intuition as a child. He was always an amazing performer back then and that carried well into the mid 80s. I realize Thriller sold a gajillion copies but I thought it was simply well crafted mainstream pop. No 'genius' there...

But it's my contention he lost a lot musically after puberty and made up for it with his incredible dancing ability.


Then again, what the hell do i know?
We think alike. His talent as a young boy had incredible legs. Take that away and I'm betting he doesn't become a star as an adult.
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Old 07-03-09, 09:03 AM   #7
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But it's my contention he lost a lot musically after puberty and made up for it with his incredible dancing ability.
I think that counts too though. Can't take that out from the package.
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Old 07-03-09, 03:34 PM   #8
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I thought he was just another really good performer and a big star until the interview TV special back in the 1980's with Barbara Walters (I think that's who it was, anyway) and she asked him to sing a little bit.

All by himself, sitting there on a bench next to her, and I swear I could hear a whole band -- rhythm, chords, hits, everything -- just from the sound of his voice and the tapping of his hands.

You want to hear how good someone really is as a performer, you get them away from all the smoke n' mirrors. He was damned good. Probably one of the best musicians I'll ever hear. The timing, the inflections, everything came together in a way that hasn't been, and will probably never be, equaled in the pop solo vocal world. There are musicians at the top of their instruments or genres, and he was truly the King Of Pop.
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Old 07-04-09, 08:39 PM   #9
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Talented yes, screwed up in the head 100% correct. Drug addict. Watch the news. Probably more known for his dancing. The "moonwalk" is not his invention BTW. He called it that but it's a backward slide. Youtube "Bill Bailey". Or "moonwalk". I've had enough of the coverage. He should have been buried already, they are dis-respecting him keeping him above ground at this point. It's all about money to these people......Sad.....
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Old 07-04-09, 08:43 PM   #10
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This is my first ever 4th of July without Michael
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Old 07-06-09, 08:22 AM   #11
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I thought he was just another really good performer and a big star until the interview TV special back in the 1980's with Barbara Walters (I think that's who it was, anyway) and she asked him to sing a little bit.

All by himself, sitting there on a bench next to her, and I swear I could hear a whole band -- rhythm, chords, hits, everything -- just from the sound of his voice and the tapping of his hands.

You want to hear how good someone really is as a performer, you get them away from all the smoke n' mirrors. He was damned good. Probably one of the best musicians I'll ever hear. The timing, the inflections, everything came together in a way that hasn't been, and will probably never be, equaled in the pop solo vocal world. There are musicians at the top of their instruments or genres, and he was truly the King Of Pop.
It was Oprah. That's wild - see that was the same exact event that made me convinced he'd lost it as a singer....

I should quickly add that raw singing ability (or, at least, my own personal perceptions of it) have little or nothing to do with the skill needed to create well-crafted pop records. He clearly excelled at that by any tangible measure. If that was the case, Caruso's records would still sell today and Madonna would have never made it.

And Harvey - absolutely, his wholistic performing package remained brilliant to the end. The dancing was a huge part of that.
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Old 07-06-09, 08:32 AM   #12
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It was Oprah. That's wild - see that was the same exact event that made me convinced he'd lost it as a singer....
That might've been it (clip here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWT9bgNn_yI ) yet I keep thinking that it was a few years before that, too.

At any rate, I don't think we'll see any American Idol who can do the same.
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Old 07-06-09, 08:42 AM   #13
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At any rate, I don't think we'll see any American Idol who can do the same.
good point - and I am sure there is plenty of raw singing talent on that show


If you listen deeply and thoughtfully to MJ sing as a child it is frightening how good his voice was. It's all there - incredible range, near perfect intonation, eerily mature inflection and emotional shadings, nimble phrasing, harmonic complexity, etc etc etc.

To get an idea of how a marginally talented child would sound like being recorded under the technological constraints of the day, listen to, say, Donny Osmond. Not bad, but lots of flat notes, straining, obvious use of double tracking to thicken the vocals, limited pitch range, and frankly the phrasing is forced and awkward to my ear - a child trying to sound mature. Which is fine, really - Donny was a child! But so was MJ.....and his singing is so far beyond what Donny was doing it's embarrassing.

In that Oprah interview, MJ says people used to refer to him as a '40-yr-old midget' as a child. You can understand why when you consider his unreal musical maturity...it was simply an overwhelmingly powerful gift. To think he was that talented a dancer at that age as well is mind numbing.
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Old 07-06-09, 08:55 AM   #14
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If you listen deeply and thoughtfully to MJ sing as a child it is frightening how good his voice was. It's all there - incredible range, near perfect intonation, eerily mature inflection and emotional shadings, nimble phrasing, harmonic complexity, etc etc etc.
I was thinking of that this weekend, actually. The amount of engineering that goes into modern recordings to fix basic issues like pitch control is ridiculous. I've heard that they even have live, real-time intonation adjusters now (although I haven't found proof of these yet).

One of the anecdotes I've read in the last week was from another performer who was accompanying him on a recent tour. He said that MJ would warm up with an hour of vocal drills before every performance. His quote was something like, "He's 45, multiple Grammy winner, and he still wanted to give the crowd everything he had."
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Old 07-06-09, 10:27 AM   #15
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I could totally see that (the dedication to his performance). i remember a great story about Andres Segovia (who performed into his 90s) getting frustrated at his inability to master a passage and hitting his guitar angrily. This, at an age when most people would have stopped performing altogether, let alone at that level of passion.



you know, I was just watching the Oprah clips on YT last night, searching for that exact moment when he busted out at her request (very ironic!)....I confess I got a little choked up listening to MJ talk. I know he was messed up in a lot of ways but he seemed like a nice man...and very sad.
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Old 07-06-09, 10:52 AM   #16
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you know, I was just watching the Oprah clips on YT last night, searching for that exact moment when he busted out at her request (very ironic!)....I confess I got a little choked up listening to MJ talk. I know he was messed up in a lot of ways but he seemed like a nice man...and very sad.
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In many ways his tragedy was to mistake attention for love. I will never forget how, when we sat down to record 40 hours of conversations where he would finally reveal himself for a book I authored, he turned to me and said these haunting words, an exact quote:

"I am going to say something I have never said before and this is the truth. I have no reason to lie to you and God knows I am telling the truth. I think all my success and fame, and I have wanted it, I have wanted it because I wanted to be loved. That's all. That's the real truth. I wanted people to love me, truly love me, because I never really felt loved. I said I know I have an ability. Maybe if I sharpened my craft, maybe people will love me more. I just wanted to be loved, because I think it is very important to be loved and to tell people that you love them and to look in their eyes and say it."

One cannot read these words without feeling a tremendous sadness for a soul that was so surrounded with hero-worship but remained so utterly alone. Because Michael substituted attention for love, he got fans who loved what he did but he never had true compatriots who loved him for who he was.
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Old 07-06-09, 11:25 AM   #17
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wow - I was just talking with my boss about this the other day.
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Old 07-06-09, 01:02 PM   #18
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MJ's impact on the animal kingdom

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Old 07-06-09, 01:33 PM   #19
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Can we please stop talking about this dirtbag? He was a freaking child molester, a drug addict and was 500 million in debt. Why are we giving this guy so many thought cycles. Please, I beg you to stop posting about this dead waste of flesh.

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Old 07-06-09, 02:32 PM   #20
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Can we please stop talking about this dirtbag? He was a freaking child molester, a drug addict and was 500 million in debt. Why are we giving this guy so many thought cycles. Please, I beg you to stop posting about this dead waste of flesh.

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Yeah, the thriller video was pretty awesome, alright.
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Old 07-06-09, 02:34 PM   #21
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I watched every live clip of "Dancing Machine" I could find on YT last night....that song's been in my head all day......

I also looked up the lyrics - I now know he sings "At the drop of a coin she comes ali-iiive"

Not " at the top of the corn she goes with I-iiiii," which is what I heard as a 9 yr old

He wasn't even in the Wiz yet so maybe I had esp. just sayin', baby.
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Old 07-06-09, 02:50 PM   #22
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Can we please stop talking about this dirtbag? He was a freaking child molester, a drug addict and was 500 million in debt. Why are we giving this guy so many thought cycles. Please, I beg you to stop posting about this dead waste of flesh.

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We've had enough discussion about his non-musical activities. Try to stay within the context of this thread.
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Old 07-07-09, 09:35 AM   #23
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I've heard that they even have live, real-time intonation adjusters now (although I haven't found proof of these yet).
http://www.antarestech.com/products/avp.shtml
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Old 07-07-09, 05:20 PM   #24
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Just listened again to "Who's Lovin' You". Holy crap that kid was something. The cadenza is just phenomenal. Plus you gotta love 6/8 blues...thanks Smokey.
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Old 07-07-09, 05:23 PM   #25
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Redux from another thread.
This is all I hear when MJ intrudes into my thought pattern.
http://www.imeem.com/waltproductions...he-hell-of-it/
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