Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Foo Off-Topic chit chat with no general subject.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-11-09, 12:40 PM   #1
Luddite
Mrs. DataJunkie
Thread Starter
 
Luddite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Vancouver, BC
Bikes: Asama "Luddite" and Kuwahara MTB from the 90s
Posts: 1,529
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My lobotomy

My coworker told me about this book she just finished reading, "My Lobotomy." It's a true story of this guy who was lobotomized at the age of 12 by this SHRINK with what amounts to an ice pic. I read nearly the entire book last night, I got it at the library. Absolutely riveting:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=5014080
Luddite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-09, 12:41 PM   #2
Hickeydog
Crushing souls
 
Hickeydog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Sagamore Hills, Ohio.
Bikes: Trek 1500
Posts: 1,591
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
wut?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wordbiker View Post

What's frightening is how coherent Hickey was in posting that.
Hickeydog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-09, 12:44 PM   #3
Tulex
Junk Mile Junkie
 
Tulex's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Webster, NY
Bikes:
Posts: 6,446
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
There was a movie about the subject, had a blond chick, maybe 30 years ago. Seem to remember the doc in the asylum played a cop on a show. Mother sent here there as a crazy, but she wasn't...

Movie was Frances with Jessica Lange

Last edited by Tulex; 07-11-09 at 12:58 PM.
Tulex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-09, 04:56 PM   #4
RichinPeoria
175mm crank of love
 
RichinPeoria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 3,387
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Rosemary Kennedy - wiki

In 1941, when Rosemary was 23, her father was told by her doctors that a cutting edge procedure would help calm her "mood swings that the family found difficult to handle at home". [2] Joseph Kennedy gave permission for the procedure to be performed by Dr. Walter Freeman, the director of the laboratories at St. Elizabeth's Hospital in Washington, D.C., together with his partner, James W. Watts, MD, from the University of Virginia. Watts performed his neurosurgical training at the Massachusetts General Hospital, and later he became the Chief of Neurosurgery at the George Washington University Hospital. Highly regarded, Dr. Watts later became the 91st president of the Medical Society of the District of Columbia. The procedure in question was a lobotomy.

At the time only 65 previous lobotomies had been performed. Dr. Watts, who performed the surgery while Dr. Freeman supervised/observed, described the procedure:

We went through the top of the head, I think she was awake. She had a mild tranquilizer. I made a surgical incision in the brain through the skull. It was near the front. It was on both sides. We just made a small incision, no more than an inch." The instrument Dr. Watts used looked like a butter knife. He swung it up and down to cut brain tissue. "We put an instrument inside," he said. As Dr. Watts cut, Dr. Freeman put questions to Rosemary. For example, he asked her to recite the Lord's Prayer or sing "God Bless America" or count backwards. ... "We made an estimate on how far to cut based on how she responded." ... When she began to become incoherent, they stopped.

—James W. Watts [3]
Instead of producing the hoped-for result, however, the lobotomy reduced Rosemary to an infantile mentality that left her incontinent and staring blankly at walls for hours. Her verbal skills were reduced to unintelligible babble. Her mother, Mrs. Rose Kennedy, remarked that although the lobotomy stopped her daughter's violent behavior, it left her completely incapacitated. "Rose was devastated; she considered it the first of the Kennedy family tragedies."[4]

Freeman went on to perform more than 3,000 lobotomies[5] before his license to practice medicine was revoked (because of the death of a patient). Such lobotomy treatments are now discredited by the mental health and medical communities, and the procedure is no longer used.


[edit] Aftermath
In 1949, Rosemary moved to the St. Coletta School for Exceptional Children (formerly known as St. Coletta's Institute for Backward Children) in Jefferson, Wisconsin, a residential institution for people with disabilities. Because of the severity of her mental condition, Rosemary became largely detached from the Kennedy clan, but she was visited on regular occasions by her sister Eunice Kennedy Shriver, the founder of the Special Olympics and an advocate for the disabled on Rosemary's behalf. Joe Kennedy also made monetary donations to philanthropic agencies that he founded to help people with developmental disabilities.

Occasionally, Rosemary was taken to visit relatives in Florida and Washington, D.C and to visit her childhood home on Cape Cod, Massachusetts.

Publicly, she was declared to be mentally handicapped. This was more socially acceptable in a political family than a failed lobotomy. "Only a few doctors who worked for the Kennedys knew the truth about Rosemary's condition, as did the FBI", because of a background check of Joe. Joe's attorney told them she had a "mental illness". [6]


[edit] Death
Rosemary died from natural causes on January 7, 2005, at the Atkinson Memorial Hospital in Fort Atkinson, Wisconsin, at the age of 86, with her two surviving sisters Eunice Kennedy Shriver and Jean Kennedy Smith, and her only surviving brother Senator Ted Kennedy by her side. She was the fifth of the Kennedy children to die, but the first to die from natural causes. Although news reports indicate that Rosemary was buried in Holyhood Cemetery in Brookline, Massachusetts, the cemetery will not confirm burial. There is no discernible grave marker.
RichinPeoria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-09, 05:00 PM   #5
pgoat
Batüwü Griekgriek
 
pgoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: NYC - for the moment...
Bikes: 1985 Trek 500, 1986 Trek 500 Tri Series, 2002 Orbea Team Euskaltel, 2005 Cannondale R1000
Posts: 2,897
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
wow. I'm a republican now - thanks!
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsharr View Post
People whose sig line does not include a jsharr quote annoy me.
pgoat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-09, 05:07 PM   #6
Airwick
jackrussellsonabicycle
 
Airwick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Greenville, South Carolina
Bikes:
Posts: 272
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgoat View Post
wow. I'm a republican now - thanks!
You should be so lucky,... I'd pay for the procedure.

The movie with Jessica Lange was based on the Fanny Brice story...........
__________________
Airwick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-09, 05:09 PM   #7
pgoat
Batüwü Griekgriek
 
pgoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: NYC - for the moment...
Bikes: 1985 Trek 500, 1986 Trek 500 Tri Series, 2002 Orbea Team Euskaltel, 2005 Cannondale R1000
Posts: 2,897
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airwick View Post
You should be so lucky,... I'd pay for the procedure.
so, you're saying turning republican is like being lobotomized?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsharr View Post
People whose sig line does not include a jsharr quote annoy me.
pgoat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-09, 05:12 PM   #8
Airwick
jackrussellsonabicycle
 
Airwick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Greenville, South Carolina
Bikes:
Posts: 272
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgoat View Post
so, you're saying turning republican is like being lobotomized?
negative,... I'm saying in your case, whatever it takes,.......

God knows you could use a lobotomy for many reasons than just your politics,... am I right?

Surgery or no, pgoat is the best.
__________________
Airwick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-09, 05:31 PM   #9
pgoat
Batüwü Griekgriek
 
pgoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: NYC - for the moment...
Bikes: 1985 Trek 500, 1986 Trek 500 Tri Series, 2002 Orbea Team Euskaltel, 2005 Cannondale R1000
Posts: 2,897
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
okay, just so's we agree I'm still the best afterward
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsharr View Post
People whose sig line does not include a jsharr quote annoy me.
pgoat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-09, 09:49 PM   #10
KrisPistofferson
Immoderator
 
KrisPistofferson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: POS Tennessee
Bikes: Gary Fisher Simple City 8, Litespeed Obed
Posts: 7,630
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
This was a fairly common treatment for mental illness up until relatively recently, as was sterilization. Not to invoke Godwin but Hitler borrowed a lot of ideas from our sanitariums and from our government regarding dealing with our "undesirables," (Native Americans.) Another good book in this vein is The Nazi Doctors by Robert Jay Lifton. This book will turn you back into a Democrat. Actually, just reading books will turn you into a Democrat.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikeforums
Your rights end where another poster's feelings begin.
KrisPistofferson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-09, 01:04 AM   #11
waikikihei
clean water
 
waikikihei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Maui, HI
Bikes: Litespeed
Posts: 174
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
"We made an estimate of how far to cut based on how she responded"

waikikihei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-09, 02:47 AM   #12
c0urt
moving target
 
c0urt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: birmingham, al
Bikes: a masi speciale, and a kuota k-factor.
Posts: 2,828
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
half lobotomies and spherical lobotomies are not uncommon these days, with drug slinging docs and other messed up stuff.

I was suggested one by two different doc in two different states, or what amounts to a pace maker to help with my seizures. my family disapproved, so did I. The side affects where not worth it or the recovery., then most of the side affects now are not either.

I dont know if i post about spending a week recently in the hospital because they gave my dilantin after being told several times not to.
c0urt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-09, 07:52 AM   #13
Sherville
Junior Member
 
Sherville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Penrith, Australia
Bikes: Vivente Lugano
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airwick View Post
The movie with Jessica Lange was based on the Fanny Brice story...........
Is that the same lady as Frances Farmer? I have the book and I thought that's what Luddite was talking about.

Sorry if it's the same person

This is what they apparently did to Frances Farmer:

Quote:
America’s “foremost psychosurgeon” who developed the transorbital lobotomy (a treatment which only required the lifting of the eye lid and the insertion of an ice pick to tear into the brain).
Sick sick stuff.....
Sherville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-09, 12:25 PM   #14
RichinPeoria
175mm crank of love
 
RichinPeoria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 3,387
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Chia Obama

......
RichinPeoria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-09, 12:39 PM   #15
Luddite
Mrs. DataJunkie
Thread Starter
 
Luddite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Vancouver, BC
Bikes: Asama "Luddite" and Kuwahara MTB from the 90s
Posts: 1,529
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The book is by Howard Dully, not Frances Farmer (who dat?)

I found it shocking he was lobotomized in 1960. I was under the mistaken impression that lobotomies were done in the 19th century or something. His fracking witch of a step mother hated him and this quack Freeman lobotomized him through his fracking eye socket. A TWELVE YEAR OLD KID.
Luddite is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:43 PM.