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Old 07-19-09, 10:29 AM   #1
permanentjaun
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What is the law of the oceans?

What types of business are allowed off the coasts of countries? I know there is a 200 mile economic zone that countries are entitled to. What does this mean though?

For example, say I wanted to start a new kind of 'storage' company whereas I would use a ship to drop floating containers out at sea? Essentially I'm only using the ocean for its space and not taking any other resources from it. I'm not fishing, dumping, or affecting anything else in the ocean.

Can anyone point me in the right direction on where I can learn more about the rules and laws governing these bodies of water?

I'd like to form a company that would essentially act in the same manner as the storage company example. It would not be a storage company, but would require the same use of the ocean. I presume there will be rules about where such business can be conducted as to not interrupt shipping lanes. I need to know what other restrictions need to be considered.

Thanks for any help,
Matt
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Old 07-19-09, 10:32 AM   #2
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...Law_of_the_Sea
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_waters
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Old 07-19-09, 11:00 AM   #3
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Old 07-19-09, 11:05 AM   #4
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What types of business are allowed off the coasts of countries? I know there is a 200 mile economic zone that countries are entitled to. What does this mean though?

For example, say I wanted to start a new kind of 'storage' company whereas I would use a ship to drop floating containers out at sea? Essentially I'm only using the ocean for its space and not taking any other resources from it. I'm not fishing, dumping, or affecting anything else in the ocean.

Can anyone point me in the right direction on where I can learn more about the rules and laws governing these bodies of water?

I'd like to form a company that would essentially act in the same manner as the storage company example. It would not be a storage company, but would require the same use of the ocean. I presume there will be rules about where such business can be conducted as to not interrupt shipping lanes. I need to know what other restrictions need to be considered.

Thanks for any help,
Matt
so you log on to a bike forum, to start your research?
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Old 07-19-09, 11:11 AM   #5
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Well, you can't use the ocean for storage. Any unmanned, floating objects other than navigation or research bouys in the open ocean are subject to salvage and it's "finders keepers". You even have to be careful about even getting a tow to the marina if you run out of gas out on the ocean in either national or international waters, or the tower can legaly claim 10% of the value of your boat for doing it. You need to be clear up front before you accept a tow as to the conditions of the tow.
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Old 07-19-09, 11:32 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by permanentjaun View Post
What types of business are allowed off the coasts of countries? I know there is a 200 mile economic zone that countries are entitled to. What does this mean though?

For example, say I wanted to start a new kind of 'storage' company whereas I would use a ship to drop floating containers out at sea? Essentially I'm only using the ocean for its space and not taking any other resources from it. I'm not fishing, dumping, or affecting anything else in the ocean.

Can anyone point me in the right direction on where I can learn more about the rules and laws governing these bodies of water?

I'd like to form a company that would essentially act in the same manner as the storage company example. It would not be a storage company, but would require the same use of the ocean. I presume there will be rules about where such business can be conducted as to not interrupt shipping lanes. I need to know what other restrictions need to be considered.

Thanks for any help,
Matt
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Last edited by ilikebikes; 07-19-09 at 11:36 AM.
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Old 07-19-09, 11:38 AM   #7
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so you log on to a bike forum, to start your research?
This is a treasure trove for legal research, is it not?

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Old 07-19-09, 12:36 PM   #8
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so you log on to a bike forum, to start your research?
Only because I know there are enough losers on here at anytime during the day for which I could get a quick reply.
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Old 07-19-09, 01:27 PM   #9
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Well, you can't use the ocean for storage. Any unmanned, floating objects other than navigation or research bouys in the open ocean are subject to salvage and it's "finders keepers". You even have to be careful about even getting a tow to the marina if you run out of gas out on the ocean in either national or international waters, or the tower can legaly claim 10% of the value of your boat for doing it. You need to be clear up front before you accept a tow as to the conditions of the tow.
Are you positive that's true? What about a crab fishermans pots?
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Old 07-19-09, 01:30 PM   #10
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Yea I didn't say exactly what I wanted to. What I was trying to say is that my company would be using the ocean as a place to store materials for temporary periods of time. It would not be a storage company in the sense that I would not be storing things for other companies or people. I essentially want to use the ocean as my warehouse by floating containers out at sea until I need the materials within them.
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Old 07-19-09, 02:04 PM   #11
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permanentjaun's floating mini-storage and casino!! We have video poker!!!
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Old 07-19-09, 02:17 PM   #12
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Floating brothel?
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Old 07-19-09, 02:21 PM   #13
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I essentially want to use the ocean as my warehouse by floating containers out at sea until I need the materials within them.
There's a reason why this hasn't been done before. When you find that, you'll know why everyone else stores their stuff on land.
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Old 07-19-09, 02:36 PM   #14
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permanentjaun's floating mini-storage and casino!! We have video poker!!!
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Floating brothel?
Add to these "Thunderdome" and "massive server farm for storage and trading of software, music, and movies," and you've really got something.
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Old 07-19-09, 02:44 PM   #15
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Yea I didn't say exactly what I wanted to. What I was trying to say is that my company would be using the ocean as a place to store materials for temporary periods of time. It would not be a storage company in the sense that I would not be storing things for other companies or people. I essentially want to use the ocean as my warehouse by floating containers out at sea until I need the materials within them.
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Old 07-19-09, 02:54 PM   #16
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Old 07-19-09, 03:35 PM   #17
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Are you positive that's true? What about a crab fishermans pots?
Fishing is regulated. There is usually a time limit on how long the traps can be unattended.

I suggest http://www.imli.org/ if you want to do some research.
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Old 07-19-09, 03:51 PM   #18
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Not to sound trite, but in your original scenario, the first law of the ocean will be can you defend your property from pirates. You will be outside the jurisdiction of any nation and as experience has shown off the coast of Somalia, an American-flagged civilian vessel enjoys no special immunity. Is the floating storage facility going to have any sort of 24/7 armed security on board? If not, do you think a manned vessel will be able to escape any sort of threat? If you are storing any sort of high-value or easily traded goods, expect them to become a potential target.
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Old 07-19-09, 04:10 PM   #19
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try the somalia national law library. ask for the maritime law department
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Old 07-19-09, 08:55 PM   #20
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Not to sound trite, but in your original scenario, the first law of the ocean will be can you defend your property from pirates. You will be outside the jurisdiction of any nation and as experience has shown off the coast of Somalia, an American-flagged civilian vessel enjoys no special immunity. Is the floating storage facility going to have any sort of 24/7 armed security on board? If not, do you think a manned vessel will be able to escape any sort of threat? If you are storing any sort of high-value or easily traded goods, expect them to become a potential target.
This is not true simply because nations have economic zones which extend off of their borders by 200 nautical miles. I would not be outside the jurisdiction of a country.

Beyond that, I can assure you that no pirate would want what I'm storing. If it was of high value then I wouldn't store it out at sea. Not only for theft, but because of damages that might occur.
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Old 07-19-09, 08:56 PM   #21
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Fishing is regulated. There is usually a time limit on how long the traps can be unattended.

I suggest http://www.imli.org/ if you want to do some research.
I'll have to check it out. I would leave a specific container unattended for around 14-20 days and replace it with a new one.
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Old 07-19-09, 09:41 PM   #22
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And it would be cost-effective to trash a $1500 container every two weeks? (Using a 40' standard container as an example, you would have to do something to make it float or make something that floats so it might cost more)
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Old 07-19-09, 10:06 PM   #23
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And it would be cost-effective to trash a $1500 container every two weeks? (Using a 40' standard container as an example, you would have to do something to make it float or make something that floats so it might cost more)
I never said I'd be using a standard 40' steel transport container.
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Old 07-19-09, 10:17 PM   #24
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Are you positive that's true? What about a crab fishermans pots?
They are attended daily and licensed, and fall under the same category as other bouys. They are marked by a bouy, after all.
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Old 07-20-09, 05:21 AM   #25
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My two cents:

1: The storage containers would be very expensive. Just the materials to make marine-grade stuff are costly. Barnacles love anything that floats in the sea, so one either needs to get the containers in often, or ensure they have enough displacement to deal with the heavy weight of them.

2: The containers will need bilge pumps, and some engineering to keep the contents from becoming waterlogged. Seals tear and weaken, metal corrodes in salt water, and waves can get large enough to turn over almost anything.

3: They will need security 24/7 as pointed above, and your guns have to be bigger enough not just to outshoot any would be attackers, but by a margin where they would not attempt it.
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