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    Senior Member permanentjaun's Avatar
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    What is the law of the oceans?

    What types of business are allowed off the coasts of countries? I know there is a 200 mile economic zone that countries are entitled to. What does this mean though?

    For example, say I wanted to start a new kind of 'storage' company whereas I would use a ship to drop floating containers out at sea? Essentially I'm only using the ocean for its space and not taking any other resources from it. I'm not fishing, dumping, or affecting anything else in the ocean.

    Can anyone point me in the right direction on where I can learn more about the rules and laws governing these bodies of water?

    I'd like to form a company that would essentially act in the same manner as the storage company example. It would not be a storage company, but would require the same use of the ocean. I presume there will be rules about where such business can be conducted as to not interrupt shipping lanes. I need to know what other restrictions need to be considered.

    Thanks for any help,
    Matt

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    AEO
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    Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
    http://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...ger-photos.htm

  3. #3
    K2ProFlex baby! ilikebikes's Avatar
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    First rule of the ocean:
    1-First chance it gets the ocean WILL drown you.
    You see, their morals, their code...it's a bad joke, dropped at the first sign of trouble. They're only as good as the world allows them to be. I'll show you. When the chips are down, these...These "civilized" people...they'll eat each other. See, I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve

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    . botto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by permanentjaun View Post
    What types of business are allowed off the coasts of countries? I know there is a 200 mile economic zone that countries are entitled to. What does this mean though?

    For example, say I wanted to start a new kind of 'storage' company whereas I would use a ship to drop floating containers out at sea? Essentially I'm only using the ocean for its space and not taking any other resources from it. I'm not fishing, dumping, or affecting anything else in the ocean.

    Can anyone point me in the right direction on where I can learn more about the rules and laws governing these bodies of water?

    I'd like to form a company that would essentially act in the same manner as the storage company example. It would not be a storage company, but would require the same use of the ocean. I presume there will be rules about where such business can be conducted as to not interrupt shipping lanes. I need to know what other restrictions need to be considered.

    Thanks for any help,
    Matt
    so you log on to a bike forum, to start your research?

  5. #5
    The Site Administrator: Currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes,please contact my assistnt admins for forum issues Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
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    Well, you can't use the ocean for storage. Any unmanned, floating objects other than navigation or research bouys in the open ocean are subject to salvage and it's "finders keepers". You even have to be careful about even getting a tow to the marina if you run out of gas out on the ocean in either national or international waters, or the tower can legaly claim 10% of the value of your boat for doing it. You need to be clear up front before you accept a tow as to the conditions of the tow.
    on light duty due to illness; please contact my assistants for forum issues. They are Siu Blue Wind, or CbadRider or the other 3 star folk. I am currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes. I am making good progress, happily.


    . “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche

    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant

  6. #6
    K2ProFlex baby! ilikebikes's Avatar
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    My response would have been something along the lines of: "Does your bike have computer controlled suspension? Then shut your piehole, this baby is from the future!"
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    Quote Originally Posted by permanentjaun View Post
    What types of business are allowed off the coasts of countries? I know there is a 200 mile economic zone that countries are entitled to. What does this mean though?

    For example, say I wanted to start a new kind of 'storage' company whereas I would use a ship to drop floating containers out at sea? Essentially I'm only using the ocean for its space and not taking any other resources from it. I'm not fishing, dumping, or affecting anything else in the ocean.

    Can anyone point me in the right direction on where I can learn more about the rules and laws governing these bodies of water?

    I'd like to form a company that would essentially act in the same manner as the storage company example. It would not be a storage company, but would require the same use of the ocean. I presume there will be rules about where such business can be conducted as to not interrupt shipping lanes. I need to know what other restrictions need to be considered.

    Thanks for any help,
    Matt
    Last edited by ilikebikes; 07-19-09 at 11:36 AM.
    You see, their morals, their code...it's a bad joke, dropped at the first sign of trouble. They're only as good as the world allows them to be. I'll show you. When the chips are down, these...These "civilized" people...they'll eat each other. See, I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve

  7. #7
    Free Velo Vol! Velo Vol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by botto View Post
    so you log on to a bike forum, to start your research?
    This is a treasure trove for legal research, is it not?


  8. #8
    Senior Member permanentjaun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by botto View Post
    so you log on to a bike forum, to start your research?
    Only because I know there are enough losers on here at anytime during the day for which I could get a quick reply.

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    Senior Member permanentjaun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Stormcrowe View Post
    Well, you can't use the ocean for storage. Any unmanned, floating objects other than navigation or research bouys in the open ocean are subject to salvage and it's "finders keepers". You even have to be careful about even getting a tow to the marina if you run out of gas out on the ocean in either national or international waters, or the tower can legaly claim 10% of the value of your boat for doing it. You need to be clear up front before you accept a tow as to the conditions of the tow.
    Are you positive that's true? What about a crab fishermans pots?

  10. #10
    Senior Member permanentjaun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilikebikes View Post
    Yea I didn't say exactly what I wanted to. What I was trying to say is that my company would be using the ocean as a place to store materials for temporary periods of time. It would not be a storage company in the sense that I would not be storing things for other companies or people. I essentially want to use the ocean as my warehouse by floating containers out at sea until I need the materials within them.

  11. #11
    Genius FlatMaster's Avatar
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    permanentjaun's floating mini-storage and casino!! We have video poker!!!
    Ride or Die

  12. #12
    T-Shirt Guy ehidle's Avatar
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    Floating brothel?
    Yellow + Blue Jerseys!

    Get your Cranky T-Shirt!
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    and Women's designs available

  13. #13
    Senior Member BengeBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by permanentjaun View Post
    I essentially want to use the ocean as my warehouse by floating containers out at sea until I need the materials within them.
    There's a reason why this hasn't been done before. When you find that, you'll know why everyone else stores their stuff on land.

  14. #14
    phony collective progress x136's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlatMaster View Post
    permanentjaun's floating mini-storage and casino!! We have video poker!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by ehidle View Post
    Floating brothel?
    Add to these "Thunderdome" and "massive server farm for storage and trading of software, music, and movies," and you've really got something.

  15. #15
    . botto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by permanentjaun View Post
    Yea I didn't say exactly what I wanted to. What I was trying to say is that my company would be using the ocean as a place to store materials for temporary periods of time. It would not be a storage company in the sense that I would not be storing things for other companies or people. I essentially want to use the ocean as my warehouse by floating containers out at sea until I need the materials within them.

  16. #16
    Super Moderator Allen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unterhausen
    I believe that in this case "solid meh" means "so 'meh' that it could never be anything more than 'meh', and yet also no less than 'meh' -- in a word, exactly 'meh'"

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    Senior Member GP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by permanentjaun View Post
    Are you positive that's true? What about a crab fishermans pots?
    Fishing is regulated. There is usually a time limit on how long the traps can be unattended.

    I suggest http://www.imli.org/ if you want to do some research.

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    Not to sound trite, but in your original scenario, the first law of the ocean will be can you defend your property from pirates. You will be outside the jurisdiction of any nation and as experience has shown off the coast of Somalia, an American-flagged civilian vessel enjoys no special immunity. Is the floating storage facility going to have any sort of 24/7 armed security on board? If not, do you think a manned vessel will be able to escape any sort of threat? If you are storing any sort of high-value or easily traded goods, expect them to become a potential target.
    Regards, MillCreek
    Snohomish County, Washington USA

  19. #19
    Still can't climb
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    try the somalia national law library. ask for the maritime law department
    See? You are a mack daddy Coasting.....quote hannahmontana
    Coasting, you are a mack daddy and a genius....quote Serendipper

  20. #20
    Senior Member permanentjaun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MillCreek View Post
    Not to sound trite, but in your original scenario, the first law of the ocean will be can you defend your property from pirates. You will be outside the jurisdiction of any nation and as experience has shown off the coast of Somalia, an American-flagged civilian vessel enjoys no special immunity. Is the floating storage facility going to have any sort of 24/7 armed security on board? If not, do you think a manned vessel will be able to escape any sort of threat? If you are storing any sort of high-value or easily traded goods, expect them to become a potential target.
    This is not true simply because nations have economic zones which extend off of their borders by 200 nautical miles. I would not be outside the jurisdiction of a country.

    Beyond that, I can assure you that no pirate would want what I'm storing. If it was of high value then I wouldn't store it out at sea. Not only for theft, but because of damages that might occur.

  21. #21
    Senior Member permanentjaun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GP View Post
    Fishing is regulated. There is usually a time limit on how long the traps can be unattended.

    I suggest http://www.imli.org/ if you want to do some research.
    I'll have to check it out. I would leave a specific container unattended for around 14-20 days and replace it with a new one.

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    And it would be cost-effective to trash a $1500 container every two weeks? (Using a 40' standard container as an example, you would have to do something to make it float or make something that floats so it might cost more)

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    Senior Member permanentjaun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jknight8907 View Post
    And it would be cost-effective to trash a $1500 container every two weeks? (Using a 40' standard container as an example, you would have to do something to make it float or make something that floats so it might cost more)
    I never said I'd be using a standard 40' steel transport container.

  24. #24
    The Site Administrator: Currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes,please contact my assistnt admins for forum issues Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by permanentjaun View Post
    Are you positive that's true? What about a crab fishermans pots?
    They are attended daily and licensed, and fall under the same category as other bouys. They are marked by a bouy, after all.
    on light duty due to illness; please contact my assistants for forum issues. They are Siu Blue Wind, or CbadRider or the other 3 star folk. I am currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes. I am making good progress, happily.


    . “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche

    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant

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    My two cents:

    1: The storage containers would be very expensive. Just the materials to make marine-grade stuff are costly. Barnacles love anything that floats in the sea, so one either needs to get the containers in often, or ensure they have enough displacement to deal with the heavy weight of them.

    2: The containers will need bilge pumps, and some engineering to keep the contents from becoming waterlogged. Seals tear and weaken, metal corrodes in salt water, and waves can get large enough to turn over almost anything.

    3: They will need security 24/7 as pointed above, and your guns have to be bigger enough not just to outshoot any would be attackers, but by a margin where they would not attempt it.

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