Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Foo Off-Topic chit chat with no general subject.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-12-09, 04:33 PM   #1
Alfster 
long time visiter
Thread Starter
 
Alfster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: in the Northern Tundra
Bikes: 2005 Trek 6700 disc 2007 Orbea Onix 2009 Raleigh One Way
Posts: 615
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Microsoft can't sell MS Word in the US

... at least for a while. They were found to violate a patent from a small firm. Sounds like MS is more than willing to steal someone elses technology to advance. I've got to stop supporting these guys by purchasing their software

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1249534/
Alfster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-09, 04:36 PM   #2
KingTermite 
On my TARDIScycle!
 
KingTermite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Eastside Seattlite Termite Mound
Bikes: Trek 520, Trek Navigator 300, Peugeot Versailles PE10DE
Posts: 3,924
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfster View Post
... at least for a while. They were found to violate a patent from a small firm. Sounds like MS is more than willing to steal someone elses technology to advance. I've got to stop supporting these guys by purchasing their software

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1249534/
Their motto for a few decades now......"If you can't beat 'em, buy 'em!"
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by coffeecake View Post
- it's pretty well established that Hitler was an *******.
KingTermite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-09, 04:37 PM   #3
Alfster 
long time visiter
Thread Starter
 
Alfster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: in the Northern Tundra
Bikes: 2005 Trek 6700 disc 2007 Orbea Onix 2009 Raleigh One Way
Posts: 615
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingTermite View Post
Their motto for a few decades now......"If you can't beat 'em, buy 'em!"
or steal from 'em.
Alfster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-09, 04:38 PM   #4
KingTermite 
On my TARDIScycle!
 
KingTermite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Eastside Seattlite Termite Mound
Bikes: Trek 520, Trek Navigator 300, Peugeot Versailles PE10DE
Posts: 3,924
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfster View Post
or steal from 'em.
They only steal at first...when the complaints being, they'll just buy the company.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by coffeecake View Post
- it's pretty well established that Hitler was an *******.
KingTermite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-09, 04:42 PM   #5
Little Darwin
The Improbable Bulk
 
Little Darwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Wilkes-Barre, PA
Bikes: Many
Posts: 8,402
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Many software patents have confused me in the past, so I am curious what this patent actually was.

I don't recall the specifics, but in the past, I recall seeing software patents for algorithms that a first term college student could write, and were not in my opinion unique enough to be patentable.

I see it in the same light as back many years ago, and SEA claimed to have exclusive rights to the file extension .arc Like nobody would have thought of naming a file archive that way. I immediately on the BBS I immediately made a public claim to the extension .txt and I have yet to see a nickel of my licensing fees even though I see the extension all over the place now. If I could just afford to hire a lawyer.

EDIT: My short point is that software patents are often granted for algorithms that shouldn't be able to get one.
__________________
Slow Ride Cyclists of NEPA

People do not seem to realize that their opinion of the world is also a confession of character.
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
Little Darwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-09, 04:44 PM   #6
KingTermite 
On my TARDIScycle!
 
KingTermite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Eastside Seattlite Termite Mound
Bikes: Trek 520, Trek Navigator 300, Peugeot Versailles PE10DE
Posts: 3,924
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Darwin View Post
Many software patents have confused me in the past, so I am curious what this patent actually was.

I don't recall the specifics, but in the past, I recall seeing software patents for algorithms that a first term college student could write, and were not in my opinion unique enough to be patentable.

I see it in the same light as back many years ago, and SEA claimed to have exclusive rights to the file extension .arc Like nobody would have thought of naming a file archive that way. I immediately on the BBS I immediately made a public claim to the extension .txt and I have yet to see a nickel of my licensing fees even though I see the extension all over the place now. If I could just afford to hire a lawyer.
My favorite is how M$ trademarks "regular" words they use for software programs so you can't use it. Try naming any piece of software with the word "explorer" in it and get away with it. You'll have about 8 billion M$ lawyers down your neck by the weekend.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by coffeecake View Post
- it's pretty well established that Hitler was an *******.
KingTermite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-09, 05:17 PM   #7
HardyWeinberg
GATC
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: south Puget Sound
Bikes:
Posts: 7,658
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 105 Post(s)
I see they've got 60 days to straighten this out, so word remains on the market:

http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/archives/176223.asp
HardyWeinberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-09, 05:43 PM   #8
CliftonGK1
Senior Member
 
CliftonGK1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Columbus, OH
Bikes: '08 Surly Cross-Check, 2011 Redline Conquest Pro, 2012 Spesh FSR Comp EVO, 2015 Trek Domane 6.2 disc
Posts: 11,380
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The firm said that several years ago it approached Microsoft with a breakthrough product in data processing, only to be spurned and to see its technology show up later in versions of Microsoft Word.

Isn't this exactly why Hollywood types won't accept unsolicited scripts; so that no one can claim derivative work and infringement on them if they happen to come up with something similar in the future?
You'd think that a company like Microsoft would have a similar policy in place: A "don't call us, we'll call you" sort of arrangement regarding intellectual property so no one could do just what happened here... "Well we showed it to them a few years ago and they didn't want it but now it's in their products. Gimmie money."
__________________
"I feel like my world was classier before I found cyclocross."
- Mandi M.
CliftonGK1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-09, 05:47 PM   #9
jdmitch
Non-Spandex Commuter
 
jdmitch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Olathe, KS
Bikes: Trek Soho S
Posts: 1,025
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Darwin View Post
EDIT: My short point is that software patents are often granted for algorithms that shouldn't be able to get one.
Because the patent office can't be bothered to hire experts... too many people who've been working patents too long, not understanding current technologies.
__________________
Blogging My Ride to Work
Soho S (not fully current)
Quote:
Originally Posted by KitN View Post
You don't need to dress up like a spandex super hero to ride your bike.
jdmitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-09, 08:03 AM   #10
jsharr
You Know!? For Kids!
 
jsharr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Just NW of Richardson Bike Mart
Bikes: '05 Trek 1200 / '90 Trek 8000 / '? Falcon Europa
Posts: 6,157
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
As soon as the MS hit squad gets done with some "wet work", sales will resume.
__________________
Are you a registered member? Why not? Click here to register. It's free and only takes 27 seconds! Help out the forums, abide by our community guidelines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by colorider View Post
Phobias are for irrational fears. Fear of junk ripping badgers is perfectly rational. Those things are nasty.
jsharr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-09, 08:22 AM   #11
Wordbiker
Pwnerer
 
Wordbiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Pagosa Springs, CO, USA
Bikes: Road, MTB, Cruiser, Chopper, BMX
Posts: 2,907
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Ironic, considering that M$ has always been more of a legal firm fighting for tougher copyright and patent laws to protect their acquired intellectual property than an actual software producer.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahsposo View Post
Ski, bike and wish I was gay.
Wordbiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-09, 08:30 AM   #12
jsharr
You Know!? For Kids!
 
jsharr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Just NW of Richardson Bike Mart
Bikes: '05 Trek 1200 / '90 Trek 8000 / '? Falcon Europa
Posts: 6,157
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wordbiker View Post
Ironic, considering that M$ has always been more of a legal firm fighting for tougher copyright and patent laws to protect their acquired intellectual property than an actual software producer.
Excellent word choice.
__________________
Are you a registered member? Why not? Click here to register. It's free and only takes 27 seconds! Help out the forums, abide by our community guidelines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by colorider View Post
Phobias are for irrational fears. Fear of junk ripping badgers is perfectly rational. Those things are nasty.
jsharr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-09, 08:35 AM   #13
x136 
phony collective progress
 
x136's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Hoosey
Bikes: http://velospace.org/user/36663
Posts: 2,981
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingTermite View Post
Try naming any piece of software with the word "explorer" in it and get away with it. You'll have about 8 billion M$ lawyers down your neck by the weekend.
Makes me want to start a company specializing in software for proctology offices, just so Microsoft would have to threaten to sue me, claiming that "Anal Explorer" is too similar to their own product and could confuse consumers.
__________________
x136 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-09, 08:37 AM   #14
Wordbiker
Pwnerer
 
Wordbiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Pagosa Springs, CO, USA
Bikes: Road, MTB, Cruiser, Chopper, BMX
Posts: 2,907
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by x136 View Post
Makes me want to start a company specializing in software for proctology offices, just so Microsoft would have to threaten to sue me, claiming that "Anal Explorer" is too similar to their own product and could confuse consumers.
You might get sued by the porn industry too...just sayin'.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahsposo View Post
Ski, bike and wish I was gay.
Wordbiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-09, 08:43 AM   #15
jfmckenna
Tiocfáidh ár Lá
 
jfmckenna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The edge of b#
Bikes: A whole bunch-a bikes.
Posts: 5,440
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
This is interesting and I wonder what the patent is? Using XML was actually a promising move by MS for standards.
jfmckenna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-09, 08:59 AM   #16
black_box
Fax Transport Specialist
 
black_box's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: chicago burbs
Bikes: '17 giant propel, '07 fuji cross pro, '10 gary fisher x-caliber
Posts: 944
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
The patent in question is 5,787,449. Punch that number in here or your favorite patent browser. The language is a little strange at first, but from my brief reading, the typical text document is stored as a single stream of content with "tags" that show the formatting and structure. I'm guessing that originally, everyone used proprietary tags, the next step was to use XML. This patent suggests separating the document into two separate pieces, the content and the tags (metacodes). The tags are stored in a table and each tag has a list of addresses of where they belong.

So for example:
Hello world.
In the old format this would be:
[bold][underline]Hello [/bold] [/underline] [italics]world.[/italics]

and in the new format:
Hello world. ** bold(characters 1-5), underline(characters 1-5), italics(characters 7-10)

I see an advantage in searchability because now all the formatting is in one big lump, and all the content (which is what you really want to search) is also together. Of course thats just my interpretation and made-up syntax for it, not any sort of patent/legal advice.

Last edited by black_box; 08-13-09 at 09:05 AM.
black_box is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-09, 09:05 AM   #17
enine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Bikes:
Posts: 580
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
So much for their file format being "open"
They pushed the new office 2007 to my work system a few months ago and it makes me glad I switched to openoffice at home years ago, MSoffice2007 is awful.
enine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-09, 02:04 PM   #18
mlts22 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 998
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
IANAL, but there is possibly the existance prior art that can be argued on this. SGML comes to mind. nroff, heck, even TeX might be able to be argued. It was files on June 2, 1994, and at that time, there were plenty of markup standards out there.
mlts22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-09, 02:54 PM   #19
timmyquest
Banned.
 
timmyquest's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Woodstock
Bikes:
Posts: 5,761
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfster View Post
or steal from 'em.
I'm not sure I'm buying that entirely.

Listen to this podcast and tell me how you feel about the matter. I'm not convinced of anything, frankly.
timmyquest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-09, 04:16 PM   #20
spinnaker
Every day a winding road
 
spinnaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Bikes: 2005 Cannondale SR500, 2008 Trek 7.3 FX, Jamis Aurora
Posts: 4,736
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 874 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Darwin View Post
Many software patents have confused me in the past, so I am curious what this patent actually was.

I don't recall the specifics, but in the past, I recall seeing software patents for algorithms that a first term college student could write, and were not in my opinion unique enough to be patentable.

I see it in the same light as back many years ago, and SEA claimed to have exclusive rights to the file extension .arc Like nobody would have thought of naming a file archive that way. I immediately on the BBS I immediately made a public claim to the extension .txt and I have yet to see a nickel of my licensing fees even though I see the extension all over the place now. If I could just afford to hire a lawyer.

EDIT: My short point is that software patents are often granted for algorithms that shouldn't be able to get one.
Our company (along with a number of others) gets sued by the same attorney on a regular basis. He finds obscure patents and sue for patent infringement (not sure if he is buying them up or suing on behalf of a client). He usually picks a figure where he knows the company would rather pay him to go away rather than fight it out in the courts.
spinnaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-09, 05:01 PM   #21
bikingshearer 
Crawlin' up, flyin' down
 
bikingshearer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Democratic Peoples' Republic of Berkeley
Bikes: 1967 Paramount, 1982-ish Ron Cooper,1986 De Rosa Professional, 1978 Eisentraut "A," 1961 BianchiCompetizione, 1994 Trek 520, 199? Burley Bossa Nova, early-1970s Cinelli Speciale Corsa
Posts: 3,350
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by spinnaker View Post
Our company (along with a number of others) gets sued by the same attorney on a regular basis. He finds obscure patents and sue for patent infringement (not sure if he is buying them up or suing on behalf of a client). He usually picks a figure where he knows the company would rather pay him to go away rather than fight it out in the courts.
Two words to ask your company lawyers about: "vexatious litigant." Don't know if there such a designation in PA, and I don't know if this a-hole would qualify. But it's worth asking the questions.
__________________
"I'm in shape -- round is a shape." Andy Rooney
bikingshearer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-09, 05:09 PM   #22
bikingshearer 
Crawlin' up, flyin' down
 
bikingshearer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Democratic Peoples' Republic of Berkeley
Bikes: 1967 Paramount, 1982-ish Ron Cooper,1986 De Rosa Professional, 1978 Eisentraut "A," 1961 BianchiCompetizione, 1994 Trek 520, 199? Burley Bossa Nova, early-1970s Cinelli Speciale Corsa
Posts: 3,350
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by enine View Post
So much for their file format being "open"
They pushed the new office 2007 to my work system a few months ago and it makes me glad I switched to openoffice at home years ago, MSoffice2007 is awful.
Well, they have been selling their beta versions as finished products pretty much forever . . . .




Quote:
Originally Posted by KingTermite View Post
Their motto for a few decades now......"If you can't beat 'em, go thermonuclear on them"
Fixed it for you.
__________________
"I'm in shape -- round is a shape." Andy Rooney
bikingshearer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-09, 07:21 PM   #23
black_box
Fax Transport Specialist
 
black_box's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: chicago burbs
Bikes: '17 giant propel, '07 fuji cross pro, '10 gary fisher x-caliber
Posts: 944
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by spinnaker View Post
Our company (along with a number of others) gets sued by the same attorney on a regular basis. He finds obscure patents and sue for patent infringement (not sure if he is buying them up or suing on behalf of a client). He usually picks a figure where he knows the company would rather pay him to go away rather than fight it out in the courts.
that seems odd, I wonder if the inventors or assignees of the patents similar? or maybe a competitor just has a budget set aside for troublemaking
black_box is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-09, 06:19 PM   #24
mlts22 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 998
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bikingshearer View Post
Two words to ask your company lawyers about: "vexatious litigant." Don't know if there such a designation in PA, and I don't know if this a-hole would qualify. But it's worth asking the questions.
From what I've read (again IANAL), this is very hard to to get, especially if it is about IP law with some merit in the patents. Even if the patents get turned over via prior art.

Quote:
Originally Posted by black_box View Post
that seems odd, I wonder if the inventors or assignees of the patents similar? or maybe a competitor just has a budget set aside for troublemaking
Sometimes patents end up being bought and sold, and ending up being owned by organizations that have no relation to the original patent holder. Larger companies avoid the patent pissing contest by cross licensing stuff (it also keeps people out of their markets they don't want in.)
mlts22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:34 PM.