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  1. #26
    AEO
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    there's a fictional story called 'Moonlight Mile' that is very similar to what you just wrote there.
    Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
    http://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...ger-photos.htm

  2. #27
    Genius FlatMaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AEO View Post
    I wonder which would be cheaper...

    multi stage rocket, like Saturn 5, that basically makes a one shot from earth to moon and back.

    -or-

    launching all necessary equipment into earth orbit to make a lunar lander, which will return to earth orbit and be picked up by a shuttle or the ISS.
    A pound of maned mission payload is more expensive than a pound of unmanned payload. Not only with all the abort systems, but also the trajectory the rocket takes. Maned missions take more of a horizontal trajectory and slice through more atmosphere, while unmaned missions take a "lofted trajectory". That is, more of an up, then over trajectory. This trajectory is more fuel efficient, but more dangerous should an upper stage fail.

    So long story short, this is why Aeries is going to launch the crew capsule and lunar lander separately.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Constellation
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  3. #28
    Mrs. DataJunkie Luddite's Avatar
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    Forget the Moon, just wait around 70 years for the Vulcans to make first contact, then we're set.

  4. #29
    your god hates me Bob Ross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AEO View Post
    there's a fictional story called 'Moonlight Mile' that is very similar to what you just wrote there.
    I was thinking Arthur C. Clarke's novel The Fountains Of Paradise


    Wasn't there a recent competition to see what private company or individual could build a launch vehicle that would escape Earth orbit, or some such goal? I thought the winner (if there was one...or maybe it was just a criteria for winning) was to be able to do it for significantly less than $20 billion?

  5. #30
    AEO
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Ross View Post
    I was thinking Arthur C. Clarke's novel The Fountains Of Paradise


    Wasn't there a recent competition to see what private company or individual could build a launch vehicle that would escape Earth orbit, or some such goal? I thought the winner (if there was one...or maybe it was just a criteria for winning) was to be able to do it for significantly less than $20 billion?
    well, that's just a vehicle to launch payload into LEO.

    getting from LEO to the moon is a whole different story.
    Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
    http://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...ger-photos.htm

  6. #31
    was kung-fu fighting lodi781's Avatar
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    even if you could, the GOV would never let it happen...you would find something they don't want you too. They need to keep the sheep in the barn.
    " The love you withhold is the pain you carry, lifetime after lifetime."

  7. #32
    Sheik Yerbouti voldemort's Avatar
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    $9.63. Walmart PRICE CUT!
    Suzy Creamcheese, what's got into you?

  8. #33
    RustyTainte substructure's Avatar
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    The moon has been done. Too much. Let's do something different.

  9. #34
    AEO
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    Quote Originally Posted by substructure View Post
    The moon has been done. Too much. Let's do something different.
    let's all go to Venus.
    Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
    http://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...ger-photos.htm

  10. #35
    RustyTainte substructure's Avatar
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    I'd really like to go deep, deep, deep into the ocean. Deeper than anyone. It's real creepy looking and there's life there that we haven't even seen. Nightmarish things.

  11. #36
    The Site Administrator: Currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes,please contact my assistnt admins for forum issues Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substructure View Post
    I'd really like to go deep, deep, deep into the ocean. Deeper than anyone. It's real creepy looking and there's life there that we haven't even seen. Nightmarish things.
    You can't go any deeper, in 1960, the Trieste, a manned submersible made the bottom of the Challenger Deep, which is the deepest spot in any ocean, which is ~~11000 meters, or 37,000odd feet.. THere have only been to other descents and they were unmanned.
    on light duty due to illness; please contact my assistants for forum issues. They are Siu Blue Wind, or CbadRider or the other 3 star folk. I am currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes. I am making good progress, happily.


    . “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche

    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant

  12. #37
    Senior Member coldfeet's Avatar
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    I would bet that you could do it for less that 1 Billion in todays money. It might not be safe, but you could do it. eventually, we WILL do it, btut some of us might not come back.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Stormcrowe View Post
    It could also provide the necessary impetus to develop a Space Elevator up to Geosynchronous Orbit. Carbon nanotubes are looking really interesting to be used as a sufficiently strong material to manufacture the lifter cables, for example.
    True. The "launch" point for stuff outside Earth's orbit would be from the "counterbalance" point, which is approximately twice geosynchronous orbit. One thing most people do not understand about a "Space Elevator" is that the base station "sits" in geosynchronous orbit. The elevator "cable" extends up AND down, from there by tidal forces.

  13. #38
    AEO
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    you'd have to figure out how to have babies that won't die from the Gs during reentry for civilians to live in space or moon for extended periods of time.
    Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
    http://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...ger-photos.htm

  14. #39
    The Site Administrator: Currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes,please contact my assistnt admins for forum issues Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AEO View Post
    you'd have to figure out how to have babies that won't die from the Gs during reentry for civilians to live in space or moon for extended periods of time.
    More the aspect of living in zeroG calcium loss. There wuld be very few reasons to ever expose newborns to reentry stress or launch stress. There would be physiological effects to chidren born on the moon, though in a 1/6 G field, on their skeletal development and muscular development, no doubt. Also any that were born and reared in a zero G environment, although this could be addressed by having the children raised under conditions of centripedal acceleration to simulate a normal 1 G field, for any children raised on the eventual orbital port.
    on light duty due to illness; please contact my assistants for forum issues. They are Siu Blue Wind, or CbadRider or the other 3 star folk. I am currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes. I am making good progress, happily.


    . “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche

    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant

  15. #40
    You Know!? For Kids! jsharr's Avatar
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    when ever I want to go to the moon, I just call explodyPup and he let's me catch a ride with him and sleep on the couch.
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    Quote Originally Posted by colorider View Post
    Phobias are for irrational fears. Fear of junk ripping badgers is perfectly rational. Those things are nasty.

  16. #41
    RustyTainte substructure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Stormcrowe View Post
    You can't go any deeper, in 1960, the Trieste, a manned submersible made the bottom of the Challenger Deep, which is the deepest spot in any ocean, which is ~~11000 meters, or 37,000odd feet.. THere have only been to other descents and they were unmanned.
    Well, I missed out on that trip.

  17. #42
    Banned. ModoVincere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsharr View Post
    when ever I want to go to the moon, I just call explodyPup and he let's me catch a ride with him and sleep on the couch.

    Does Couch know you're sleeping on him?

  18. #43
    Senior Member late's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coldfeet View Post
    I would bet that you could do it for less that 1 Billion in todays money. It might not be safe, but you could do it. eventually, we WILL do it, btut some of us might not come back.True. The "launch" point for stuff outside Earth's orbit would be from the "counterbalance" point, which is approximately twice geosynchronous orbit. One thing most people do not understand about a "Space Elevator" is that the base station "sits" in geosynchronous orbit. The elevator "cable" extends up AND down, from there by tidal forces.
    You need a mass to anchor the cable to. I love the idea, but it would be very expensive. Just putting that rock into orbit would prob cost a trillion, with the actual
    project costing another trillion or two.

    I suspect the way to do it is the easy way. Pick the most suitable mountain chain and dig an ascending tunnel. Design a high speed train that can do a few hundred miles an hour (there are some clever ways you can lower air pressure in the tunnel to help). Once the 'train' clears the tunnel, a modest booster could get the vehicle into orbit.
    We are as gods, we might as well get good at it.
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  19. #44
    Senior Member Michigander's Avatar
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    It would all depend on what technology is used.

    With some of the secretive aircrafts (UFOs) I have seen flying around in the desert, I've got a fairly decent look at just how far beyond main stream technology has gone. So my answer would be that it obviously depends. If you use conventional and outdated technology, it will probably be expensive as hell. If you were to use the stuff the government obviously has but won't tell us about, it would probably be much cheaper and easier.
    Bring back the Sig Test!


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  20. #45
    Senior Member late's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    It would all depend on what technology is used.

    With some of the secretive aircrafts (UFOs) I have seen flying around in the desert, I've got a fairly decent look at just how far beyond main stream technology has gone. So my answer would be that it obviously depends. If you use conventional and outdated technology, it will probably be expensive as hell. If you were to use the stuff the government obviously has but won't tell us about, it would probably be much cheaper and easier.
    NASA feeds the military, not the other way round. The more exotic drives get talked about in Scientific American. That's to preserve security, because no one reads it.
    We are as gods, we might as well get good at it.
    Stewart Brand

  21. #46
    billyymc
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    Quote Originally Posted by x136 View Post
    A lot of stuff would be more off-the-shelf now than it was in the 60s. Everything had to be invented or designed from the ground up completely from scratch. Nowadays there's a lot of knowledge and rockets laying about.
    Off-the-shelf - no. Nothing works off the shelf in a space or defense mission. Off the shelf will never be a reality in that kind of environment, whether it's funded privately or by the gvt. You can take an "off the shelf" item, but it WILL get modified and those modifications will then get tested 10 ways to sunday and modified again and tested again, etc.

    The complexity and number of systems necessitate customization and massive amounts of testing in order to ensure mission success.

  22. #47
    beast mode bluevelo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AEO View Post
    I wonder which would be cheaper...

    multi stage rocket, like Saturn 5, that basically makes a one shot from earth to moon and back.

    -or-

    launching all necessary equipment into earth orbit to make a lunar lander, which will return to earth orbit and be picked up by a shuttle or the ISS.
    Once you are in orbit, you are halfway to anywhere.

  23. #48
    ÖöÖöÖöÖöÖö Dannihilator's Avatar
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    Words and Stuff.

  24. #49
    Señor Member USAZorro's Avatar
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    How much would it cost to build two humongous slingshots?
    The search for inner peace continues...

  25. #50
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    I think if we can get the Chinese to do a dog pile,we can get there you a few bags of rice.....
    Everything should be as simple as possible...But not more so.---Albert Einstein

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