Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Foo Off-Topic chit chat with no general subject.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-22-09, 02:55 PM   #26
AEO
Senior Member
 
AEO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: A Coffin Called Earth. or Toronto, ON
Bikes: Bianchi, Miyata, Dahon, Rossin
Posts: 12,258
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
there's a fictional story called 'Moonlight Mile' that is very similar to what you just wrote there.
__________________
Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
http://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...ger-photos.htm
AEO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-09, 03:13 PM   #27
FlatMaster
Genius
 
FlatMaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Auburn, AL
Bikes: Specilized Sirrus
Posts: 324
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AEO View Post
I wonder which would be cheaper...

multi stage rocket, like Saturn 5, that basically makes a one shot from earth to moon and back.

-or-

launching all necessary equipment into earth orbit to make a lunar lander, which will return to earth orbit and be picked up by a shuttle or the ISS.
A pound of maned mission payload is more expensive than a pound of unmanned payload. Not only with all the abort systems, but also the trajectory the rocket takes. Maned missions take more of a horizontal trajectory and slice through more atmosphere, while unmaned missions take a "lofted trajectory". That is, more of an up, then over trajectory. This trajectory is more fuel efficient, but more dangerous should an upper stage fail.

So long story short, this is why Aeries is going to launch the crew capsule and lunar lander separately.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Constellation
FlatMaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-09, 03:14 PM   #28
Luddite
Mrs. DataJunkie
 
Luddite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Vancouver, BC
Bikes: Asama "Luddite" and Kuwahara MTB from the 90s
Posts: 1,529
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Forget the Moon, just wait around 70 years for the Vulcans to make first contact, then we're set.
Luddite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-09, 04:39 PM   #29
Bob Ross
your god hates me
 
Bob Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 3,222
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AEO View Post
there's a fictional story called 'Moonlight Mile' that is very similar to what you just wrote there.
I was thinking Arthur C. Clarke's novel The Fountains Of Paradise


Wasn't there a recent competition to see what private company or individual could build a launch vehicle that would escape Earth orbit, or some such goal? I thought the winner (if there was one...or maybe it was just a criteria for winning) was to be able to do it for significantly less than $20 billion?
Bob Ross is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-09, 04:48 PM   #30
AEO
Senior Member
 
AEO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: A Coffin Called Earth. or Toronto, ON
Bikes: Bianchi, Miyata, Dahon, Rossin
Posts: 12,258
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Ross View Post
I was thinking Arthur C. Clarke's novel The Fountains Of Paradise


Wasn't there a recent competition to see what private company or individual could build a launch vehicle that would escape Earth orbit, or some such goal? I thought the winner (if there was one...or maybe it was just a criteria for winning) was to be able to do it for significantly less than $20 billion?
well, that's just a vehicle to launch payload into LEO.

getting from LEO to the moon is a whole different story.
__________________
Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
http://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...ger-photos.htm
AEO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-09, 05:21 PM   #31
lodi781
was kung-fu fighting
 
lodi781's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Connecticut
Bikes: '00 schwinn moab disk/06 specialized stumpy fsr expert, 06 look565
Posts: 72
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
even if you could, the GOV would never let it happen...you would find something they don't want you too. They need to keep the sheep in the barn.
lodi781 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-09, 05:28 PM   #32
voldemort
Sheik Yerbouti
 
voldemort's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: in the state of Confusion, formerly from state of Denial
Bikes: 2006 Trek Pilot 2.1, Jamis Sputnik 2009
Posts: 705
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
$9.63. Walmart PRICE CUT!
voldemort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-09, 05:50 PM   #33
substructure
RustyTainte
 
substructure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: 28012
Bikes: zilch
Posts: 12,343
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The moon has been done. Too much. Let's do something different.
substructure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-09, 05:52 PM   #34
AEO
Senior Member
 
AEO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: A Coffin Called Earth. or Toronto, ON
Bikes: Bianchi, Miyata, Dahon, Rossin
Posts: 12,258
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by substructure View Post
The moon has been done. Too much. Let's do something different.
let's all go to Venus.
__________________
Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
http://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...ger-photos.htm
AEO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-09, 05:56 PM   #35
substructure
RustyTainte
 
substructure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: 28012
Bikes: zilch
Posts: 12,343
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'd really like to go deep, deep, deep into the ocean. Deeper than anyone. It's real creepy looking and there's life there that we haven't even seen. Nightmarish things.
substructure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-09, 06:02 PM   #36
Tom Stormcrowe
Out fishing with Annie on his lap, a cigar in one hand and a ginger ale in the other, watching the sunset.
Thread Starter
 
Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: South Florida
Bikes: Techna Wheelchair and a Sun EZ 3 Recumbent Trike
Posts: 16,120
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by substructure View Post
I'd really like to go deep, deep, deep into the ocean. Deeper than anyone. It's real creepy looking and there's life there that we haven't even seen. Nightmarish things.
You can't go any deeper, in 1960, the Trieste, a manned submersible made the bottom of the Challenger Deep, which is the deepest spot in any ocean, which is ~~11000 meters, or 37,000odd feet.. THere have only been to other descents and they were unmanned.
__________________
. “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche

"We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant
Tom Stormcrowe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-09, 06:56 PM   #37
coldfeet
Senior Member
 
coldfeet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 2,119
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I would bet that you could do it for less that 1 Billion in todays money. It might not be safe, but you could do it. eventually, we WILL do it, btut some of us might not come back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Stormcrowe View Post
It could also provide the necessary impetus to develop a Space Elevator up to Geosynchronous Orbit. Carbon nanotubes are looking really interesting to be used as a sufficiently strong material to manufacture the lifter cables, for example.
True. The "launch" point for stuff outside Earth's orbit would be from the "counterbalance" point, which is approximately twice geosynchronous orbit. One thing most people do not understand about a "Space Elevator" is that the base station "sits" in geosynchronous orbit. The elevator "cable" extends up AND down, from there by tidal forces.
coldfeet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-09, 08:18 PM   #38
AEO
Senior Member
 
AEO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: A Coffin Called Earth. or Toronto, ON
Bikes: Bianchi, Miyata, Dahon, Rossin
Posts: 12,258
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
you'd have to figure out how to have babies that won't die from the Gs during reentry for civilians to live in space or moon for extended periods of time.
__________________
Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
http://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...ger-photos.htm
AEO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-09, 10:20 AM   #39
Tom Stormcrowe
Out fishing with Annie on his lap, a cigar in one hand and a ginger ale in the other, watching the sunset.
Thread Starter
 
Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: South Florida
Bikes: Techna Wheelchair and a Sun EZ 3 Recumbent Trike
Posts: 16,120
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AEO View Post
you'd have to figure out how to have babies that won't die from the Gs during reentry for civilians to live in space or moon for extended periods of time.
More the aspect of living in zeroG calcium loss. There wuld be very few reasons to ever expose newborns to reentry stress or launch stress. There would be physiological effects to chidren born on the moon, though in a 1/6 G field, on their skeletal development and muscular development, no doubt. Also any that were born and reared in a zero G environment, although this could be addressed by having the children raised under conditions of centripedal acceleration to simulate a normal 1 G field, for any children raised on the eventual orbital port.
__________________
. “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche

"We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant
Tom Stormcrowe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-09, 07:46 AM   #40
jsharr
You Know!? For Kids!
 
jsharr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Just NW of Richardson Bike Mart
Bikes: '05 Trek 1200 / '90 Trek 8000 / '? Falcon Europa
Posts: 6,157
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
when ever I want to go to the moon, I just call explodyPup and he let's me catch a ride with him and sleep on the couch.
__________________
Are you a registered member? Why not? Click here to register. It's free and only takes 27 seconds! Help out the forums, abide by our community guidelines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by colorider View Post
Phobias are for irrational fears. Fear of junk ripping badgers is perfectly rational. Those things are nasty.
jsharr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-09, 07:49 AM   #41
substructure
RustyTainte
 
substructure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: 28012
Bikes: zilch
Posts: 12,343
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Stormcrowe View Post
You can't go any deeper, in 1960, the Trieste, a manned submersible made the bottom of the Challenger Deep, which is the deepest spot in any ocean, which is ~~11000 meters, or 37,000odd feet.. THere have only been to other descents and they were unmanned.
Well, I missed out on that trip.
substructure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-09, 08:00 AM   #42
ModoVincere
Riding Heaven's Highways on the grand tour
 
ModoVincere's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 1,675
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsharr View Post
when ever I want to go to the moon, I just call explodyPup and he let's me catch a ride with him and sleep on the couch.

Does Couch know you're sleeping on him?
__________________
1 bronze, 0 silver, 1 gold
ModoVincere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-09, 08:21 AM   #43
late
Senior Member
 
late's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Southern Maine
Bikes:
Posts: 8,413
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 681 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldfeet View Post
I would bet that you could do it for less that 1 Billion in todays money. It might not be safe, but you could do it. eventually, we WILL do it, btut some of us might not come back.True. The "launch" point for stuff outside Earth's orbit would be from the "counterbalance" point, which is approximately twice geosynchronous orbit. One thing most people do not understand about a "Space Elevator" is that the base station "sits" in geosynchronous orbit. The elevator "cable" extends up AND down, from there by tidal forces.
You need a mass to anchor the cable to. I love the idea, but it would be very expensive. Just putting that rock into orbit would prob cost a trillion, with the actual
project costing another trillion or two.

I suspect the way to do it is the easy way. Pick the most suitable mountain chain and dig an ascending tunnel. Design a high speed train that can do a few hundred miles an hour (there are some clever ways you can lower air pressure in the tunnel to help). Once the 'train' clears the tunnel, a modest booster could get the vehicle into orbit.
late is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-09, 09:00 AM   #44
Michigander
Senior Member
 
Michigander's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Bikes: Giant ATX 1200, Schwinn Peleton
Posts: 1,724
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 74 Post(s)
It would all depend on what technology is used.

With some of the secretive aircrafts (UFOs) I have seen flying around in the desert, I've got a fairly decent look at just how far beyond main stream technology has gone. So my answer would be that it obviously depends. If you use conventional and outdated technology, it will probably be expensive as hell. If you were to use the stuff the government obviously has but won't tell us about, it would probably be much cheaper and easier.
__________________
Bring back the Sig Test!


(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
Michigander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-09, 09:04 AM   #45
late
Senior Member
 
late's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Southern Maine
Bikes:
Posts: 8,413
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 681 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
It would all depend on what technology is used.

With some of the secretive aircrafts (UFOs) I have seen flying around in the desert, I've got a fairly decent look at just how far beyond main stream technology has gone. So my answer would be that it obviously depends. If you use conventional and outdated technology, it will probably be expensive as hell. If you were to use the stuff the government obviously has but won't tell us about, it would probably be much cheaper and easier.
NASA feeds the military, not the other way round. The more exotic drives get talked about in Scientific American. That's to preserve security, because no one reads it.
late is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-09, 07:56 PM   #46
billyymc
Guest
 
Bikes:
Posts: n/a
Mentioned: Post(s)
Tagged: Thread(s)
Quoted: Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by x136 View Post
A lot of stuff would be more off-the-shelf now than it was in the 60s. Everything had to be invented or designed from the ground up completely from scratch. Nowadays there's a lot of knowledge and rockets laying about.
Off-the-shelf - no. Nothing works off the shelf in a space or defense mission. Off the shelf will never be a reality in that kind of environment, whether it's funded privately or by the gvt. You can take an "off the shelf" item, but it WILL get modified and those modifications will then get tested 10 ways to sunday and modified again and tested again, etc.

The complexity and number of systems necessitate customization and massive amounts of testing in order to ensure mission success.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-09, 10:17 PM   #47
bluevelo
beast mode
 
bluevelo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sacramento, CA
Bikes: Trek 2200, K2 Firebird
Posts: 44
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AEO View Post
I wonder which would be cheaper...

multi stage rocket, like Saturn 5, that basically makes a one shot from earth to moon and back.

-or-

launching all necessary equipment into earth orbit to make a lunar lander, which will return to earth orbit and be picked up by a shuttle or the ISS.
Once you are in orbit, you are halfway to anywhere.
__________________
http://www.gretainthebox.com
bluevelo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-09, 10:37 PM   #48
Dannihilator
User Title
 
Dannihilator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Annandale, New Jersey
Bikes: 2014 Surly Steamroller, 1989 Nishiki Altron
Posts: 19,422
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
$.50
Dannihilator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-09, 10:39 PM   #49
USAZorro
Señor Member
 
USAZorro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Florence, KY
Bikes: 1954 Hetchins M.O., 1959 Viking Severn Valley, 1970 Raleigh Pro, 1972 Fuji "The Finest", 1974 Raleigh Superbe&Comp, 1976 Raleigh Team Pro, 1996 Giant Iguana, 2000 Bob Jackson Arrowhead
Posts: 14,473
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
How much would it cost to build two humongous slingshots?
__________________
In search of what to search for.
USAZorro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-09, 02:35 PM   #50
Booger1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Gaseous Cloud around Uranus
Bikes:
Posts: 3,730
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
I think if we can get the Chinese to do a dog pile,we can get there you a few bags of rice.....
Booger1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:49 PM.