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  1. #1
    superArti artifice's Avatar
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    Shaken Baby Syndrome- what does Foo think?

    On a more serious note for foo, I am concerned my cousin's baby (err, my second cousin) may be in danger- my cousin is a bit of a dim bulb. Took her 8-week old off road riding in a Jeep. I'm concerned it could be quite dangerous for an infant-- I've mentioned my opinion to her, not sure if there's any further action to be taken, considering the response received from the dontshake.org people.

    -----Original message-----
    From: arti
    Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:17:17 +0100
    To: dontshake.org people
    Subject: Question about shaken baby syndrome

    > Hello
    >
    > My 20 yr old cousin lives in Denver, Colorado. She gave birth to a baby
    > boy on June 25, 2009 and took the baby trail riding (off road) in a Jeep
    > Wrangler last weekend. The pictures she provided revealed a rough
    > terrain, muddy and steep in some areas.
    >
    > My concern: impact on the child's development - especially the brain
    > and neck?
    >
    > I want to support her by providing proper information and protect my
    > second cousin.
    >
    > Thank you for your time.
    response:
    -----Original Message-----
    From: general mailbox
    Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 12:02 PM
    To: arti
    Subject: Re: Question about shaken baby syndrome

    SBS is caused by a very violent whiplash-type motion of the head. This would simply not occur if the child is restrained in a safety seat.

    Please let me know if I can be of further assistance.
    NCSBS
    thoughts??

    i woke up one morning and i stepped out of bed | had to get a bike, had to paint it red
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  2. #2
    K2ProFlex baby! ilikebikes's Avatar
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    My response would have been something along the lines of: "Does your bike have computer controlled suspension? Then shut your piehole, this baby is from the future!"
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    No disrespect but I think your cousin is a F'n idiot! I don't care what the dontshake.org people say, you should tell her if she does anything like that again you will report her to DHS! "SBS is caused by a very violent whiplash-type motion of the head. This would simply not occur if the child is restrained in a safety seat." is that just about the dumbess thing you've ever heard!
    Last edited by ilikebikes; 08-25-09 at 03:21 PM.
    You see, their morals, their code...it's a bad joke, dropped at the first sign of trouble. They're only as good as the world allows them to be. I'll show you. When the chips are down, these...These "civilized" people...they'll eat each other. See, I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve

  3. #3
    Senior Member shouldberiding's Avatar
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    As long as they take it relatively slowly, and aren't doing anything where the Jeep could end up upside down, it's no more traumatic than bouncing baby on your knee.

    I will say that there is always an element of risk in off road driving, and it's certainly nothing I'd want my newborn infant along for.

  4. #4
    superArti artifice's Avatar
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    at 8 weeks old this kid's got plenty of time in the future to do all the off-roading he wants. problem is, my cousin at only 20 years old is not yet ready to sacrifice her jeep riding time, apparently.
    i woke up one morning and i stepped out of bed | had to get a bike, had to paint it red
    Of all the treasures I have, itís the memories that are the most precious.

  5. #5
    Senior Member shouldberiding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by artifice View Post
    at 8 weeks old this kid's got plenty of time in the future to do all the off-roading he wants. problem is, my cousin at only 20 years old is not yet ready to sacrifice her jeep riding time, apparently.
    On the one hand you can't let children take over your life completely, but on the other life can't go on just as it was. Sacrifices must be made. I don't know this person but it sounds like somebody has some growing up to do yet. Hell, living in a college town the vast majority of 20 year old people I've met are still kids themselves.

  6. #6
    Genius FlatMaster's Avatar
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    It's called natural selection.
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  7. #7
    steel lover
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    Quote Originally Posted by shouldberiding View Post
    As long as they take it relatively slowly, and aren't doing anything where the Jeep could end up upside down, it's no more traumatic than bouncing baby on your knee.

    I will say that there is always an element of risk in off road driving, and it's certainly nothing I'd want my newborn infant along for.
    Agreed. Some offroading isn't any worse than driving around on Houston streets. In fact... some, might be softer (sand, soft trails etc). If she is smart, there is nothing wrong with it.

    The argument of things possibly going "wrong" is very similar to the argument for ANY car ride.
    With that said, I think I'd find a baby sitter to make it better for BOTH the child and I.
    No lugs, no care.

  8. #8
    Gears? CliftonGK1's Avatar
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    I prefer my babies stirred, not shaken.
    "I feel like my world was classier before I found cyclocross."
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  9. #9
    GATC
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    They have those head restrainer things that go into a car seat, classic baby shower item, maybe she was using one of those. A little head could still pop out w/ an epic drop and that would be a whiplash scenario for sure. Hopefully she wasn't doing that.


  10. #10
    BF Risk Manager
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    I think that you probably have a definitive answer from a professional organization that would probably know about such matters. If you are still concerned, call up the local pediatric hospital and speak with their nurse advice line. See what they say. I would also tell you to ask your own pediatrician, but most people don't have one until they have kids!
    Regards, MillCreek
    Snohomish County, Washington USA

  11. #11
    Prefers Cicero cooker's Avatar
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    It depends completely on how rough the ride is. But eight weeks sounds ridiculously young for this.

  12. #12
    Riding Heaven's Highways on the grand tour ModoVincere's Avatar
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    she could duct tape the kid in so the head wont move.






    but seriously, she's f'ing nuts taking that small a baby rock crawling or jeeping over rough terrain.
    1 bronze, 0 silver, 1 gold

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by artifice View Post
    at 8 weeks old this kid's got plenty of time in the future to do all the off-roading he wants. problem is, my cousin at only 20 years old is not yet ready to sacrifice her jeep riding time, apparently.
    OK, no one wants or cares for unsolicited advice. And they certainly don't want advice about how to raise their children. It's not your place to tell others how to raise their kids. If they're not doing anything illegal, then mind your own business.

  14. #14
    Banned. timmyquest's Avatar
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    DCFS doesn't reveal who made the call...

  15. #15
    Prefers Cicero cooker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andr0id View Post
    It's not your place to tell others how to raise their kids. If they're not doing anything illegal, then mind your own business.
    It is illegal to harm or recklessly endanger a child, so that's a no-brainer. The only important questions is - is she harming the kid?
    Last edited by cooker; 08-25-09 at 07:54 PM.

  16. #16
    GATC
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    fwiw shaken babies show symptoms immediately, it doesn't just sneak up from incremental bumps afaik.

  17. #17
    Mrs. DataJunkie Luddite's Avatar
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    Gotta love tales such as this, I'm sterile, 35 and will never have children of my own, I have known several women/couples in my situation that would do almost anything to have their own child, yet some 20 year old moron ****s some guy without protection, is lucky (?) enough to have a kid and endangers it doing something incredibly stupid.

    The Universe is fragging mental.

  18. #18
    superArti artifice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chevy42083 View Post
    Agreed. Some offroading isn't any worse than driving around on Houston streets. In fact... some, might be softer (sand, soft trails etc). If she is smart, there is nothing wrong with it.

    The argument of things possibly going "wrong" is very similar to the argument for ANY car ride.
    With that said, I think I'd find a baby sitter to make it better for BOTH the child and I.
    That is the main point in question, methinks.

    Quote Originally Posted by MillCreek View Post
    I think that you probably have a definitive answer from a professional organization that would probably know about such matters. If you are still concerned, call up the local pediatric hospital and speak with their nurse advice line. See what they say. I would also tell you to ask your own pediatrician, but most people don't have one until they have kids!
    It is a relief to read what they had to say, but IMHO the child is too young for activities like that. I'm concerned her lack of life experience may lead her to an inadvertent decision that is harmful.

    I feel like I've said my piece, and wouldn't hesitate to make a phone call if I have another concern.
    i woke up one morning and i stepped out of bed | had to get a bike, had to paint it red
    Of all the treasures I have, itís the memories that are the most precious.

  19. #19
    Portland Fred banerjek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilikebikes View Post
    No disrespect but I think your cousin is a F'n idiot!
    Sadly, I agree. But how to treat this baby is not your call. Anyone who'd take an 8 week old off roading is going to be doing far more knuckleheaded things than you'll ever be able to track, let alone do anything about.

  20. #20
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    I think we need to be careful here, this is no different than the people who say how dangerous is it to put our children in a bike trailer to carry them.
    If thay are decent off roaders, not just the people who go our and put the pedal to the metal and go crazy then there is no harm, the infant carriers lay them nearly flat on their back where the bouncing will be minimized.

  21. #21
    Banned. timmyquest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by banerjek View Post
    let alone do anything about.
    Incorrect, as they say...

  22. #22
    Blasted Weeds Tude's Avatar
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    Used to race a healthy jeep with big mudders/lift kit with a full roll cage. (and what's racing in a big muddy field - all women's race always have the word "powderpuff" or "pink" in the race title. HA - I'm certainly not a powderpuff!) And man you get tossed around pretty good, even when not racing.

    And yeah - jeep was rolled a couple times by me - couple times by ex-husband.

    Was also ejected from the jeep one time.

    Taking an infant out there is plain stupidity!

  23. #23
    50000 Guatts of power 127.0.0.1's Avatar
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    it is ABUSE !

    where and when ??, I am calling the staties !!!!

    crawling up my cabin trail at .5 mph in my 4runner whips my head back and forth a lot
    as I go over rocks.


    srsly this is abuse and neglect !!!!
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  24. #24
    Blasted Weeds Tude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    it is abuse !

    Where and when ??, i am calling the staties !!!!

    crawling up my cabin trail at .5 mph in my 4runner whips my head back and forth a lot
    as i go over rocks.


    srsly this is abuse and neglect !!!!
    yup!!!

  25. #25
    Scan Me DallasSoxFan's Avatar
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    This thread is useless without an idea of what "offroading" means to you. If it is driving out in the woods on a hunting trail or rough-ish path, then it is a non-starter. The kid, however small, is in a 5 point harness with side barriers on top of a steel frame with suspension. That could be as gentle as a dog nudging a bouncer over and over again.

    If she is rock-hopping with chance of rollover that is a different matter.

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