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  1. #51
    Free @coasting RUOkie's Avatar
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    William--Just to share a similar experience from my family. My brother in law cheated on my sister in law. They had become distant from each other, and he (without even realizing it) was not getting satisfaction in their relationship. They went to councelling, and have rediscovered their love for each other. She has forgiven him (actually more accurately, they have forgiven each other) but neither has forgotten. If anyone ever says forgive and forget, ignore them. By not forgetting, they are reminded of how far they strayed from their beliefs.

    Now, if your wife is not committed towards healing (but you make it sound like she is), then the relationship is lost. If she is as committed as you are, your marraige can not only survive, but thrive.
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  2. #52
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    if she's a cheater, dump her.

  3. #53
    Senior Member Chacal's Avatar
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    There are a lot of thoughts and opinions here, many well worth listening to (jsharr in particular, how awesome was that?).

    I'll just say this: in the end, it's down to you and your wife. It's each of your own individual needs, but also the dynamic that exists between you, which is like a third entity unto itself.

    And that means the dynamic and your needs right now, today. Try to forget about the emotional investment of however many years. That's in the past. All you really have is today, and that is a new challenge each and every day. It's a challenge which often tests us, but one that offers new joys and the fullness of all that a precious life lived together has to give.

    I absolutely agree that counseling is the way to go here. Even if things do not work out and you two split up, it should help provide healthy and nurturing closure. It sounds like there is much respect and care between you two, even if things are not ideal at present. Work with that and together you'll find the way...a good counselor will make a huge difference.

    I wish you the best of luck. Hang in there, you'll be okay.

  4. #54
    Senior Member travelmama's Avatar
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    Hey OP- You can reply to all of the feedback you want but if you really want sane advice, you should post your absolute side of the story. All of the words have been about her and what you should do about her but what have you really done in the relationship? As we know, every story has two sides.
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  5. #55
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    Some time ago, I heard that men and women look at affairs in their relationship differently. Men generally want to know, "Did you sleep with him?" Women want to know, "Do you love her?" Interesting sidebar that probably has no real value to the conversation.

    The fact that she is willing to give counseling a try is encouraging. Her comment that she isn't sure she loves you any more is not terribly relevant. That's just representative of where she is at this moment and is no indication of where she will be a year from now.

    That said, IMO, an overweight woman often loses weight because she wants to make herself more marketable. While you may not have had a problem with her weight, she knows, and I suspect you know, most men just don't dig fat chicks. We (men) are fundamentally shallow creatures.

    Cheating, whether emotional or physical, makes no real difference. It is going to be hard to get over. Time, as others have said, is a great healer. And with time, the pain of this betrayal will lessen and may eventually even (mostly) pass. If you want your marriage to work, you must be willing to let it go and you must find a way to trust her again. Unfortunately, it isn't going to be easy and many tears will be shed.

    I believe you both have to be totally committed to fixing the marriage before it will work. If you are both truly committed, counseling is the way to go. Finding the right counselor and perhaps rejecting a couple or three is not out of the question. Even if the marriage doesn't ultimately end up working out, counseling can still help get you both moving on.

    For right now, I think you need some time apart. Time for each of you to ponder the question, "Is he/she worth it?" Once you have both had the time to reflect on and answer that question, what you do from there will be far more obvious than it is now.

    I wish you well.

  6. #56
    jackrussellsonabicycle Airwick's Avatar
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    WilliamK1974,

    Some good advice here, but also pick up this book if you get the chance.

    Last edited by Airwick; 10-27-09 at 12:22 PM.

  7. #57
    BF's Level 12 Wizard SingingSabre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snicklefritz View Post
    +100 on going to counseling. You will learn a lot about yourself, about her and the relationship from taking this step.

    One thing I would say is to leave your parents out of it, at least when dealing with your wife. If you have one of your parents there, she may become defensive and dig in her heels no matter whether you are right or wrong. It's fine to talk with your parents when she isn't there, but I wouldn't involve them in any sort of group discussion. It could be that she's acting like a tigress who has been backed into a corner. An animal in that situation with feel threatened and defensive. It could be that what you are seeing from her has a small part of embarrassment about being caught or being put on the defensive and is reacting more to this than you specifically.

    Although you do have a right to be upset about your wife talking with someone and perhaps getting ready to have an affair, you need to look past that if you want this to work. Be willing to accept that something you did whether intentional or not might have affected her in a bad way. I'm sure the marriage counselor will be able to help you figure out what you need to do differently and perhaps they will do the same with your wife.
    +1

    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamK1974 View Post
    I forgot to say that my youngest brother has been divorced for about three years. His wife had several affairs while he was out of the country on a two-week Reserves assignment. Seems he made the discovery when several things she said just didn't add up. He's taking this pretty hard cause he always looked at my wife as the sister he never had. He's also mad cause she sat and cried with all of us when he was going through so much pain, and was going to turn around and do the same thing to me.
    That's f*cked up. But it's not necessarily there yet. So don't start sweating already.

    Quote Originally Posted by CbadRider View Post
    Feelings can change over the course of a marriage, from good to bad and back again. She did not say she wanted a divorce, so why kick her to the curb before trying to work things out?

    To me she sounds a bit confused, not certain of how she feels or what she wants.
    +1

    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamK1974 View Post
    No, she hasn't said she wanted a divorce yet, but she has said that even though she's willing to go to counseling, that sometimes she feels like it's almost too late for her. She said she's been checked out in some form for a year and maybe even a year and a half at this point. Not sure just how true that last bit is cause she didn't seem checked out until that week in September.

    Just like how some of the advice on here may be confusing, remember that I haven't come out with every little detail either. I could write a book, but would anyone want to read it? Seems there's plenty to deal with just in what I said at the beginning.
    September could just have been the straw that broke the camel's back. Sounds like you two were, obviously, not communicating very well. Counseling could help this, so you're probably on the right track to finding out whether it's salvageable or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by travelmama View Post
    Hey OP- You can reply to all of the feedback you want but if you really want sane advice, you should post your absolute side of the story. All of the words have been about her and what you should do about her but what have you really done in the relationship? As we know, every story has two sides.
    Big, fat +1.
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    Obviously, the guy's like a 12th level white wizard or something. His mere presence is a danger to mortals.

  8. #58
    Portland Fred banerjek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamK1974 View Post
    She told me that as far as physical/sexual goes, that nothing happened and nothing will happen. She said something about how she's not going there. But she admitted to talking to him quite a bit and said he was her friend. I expressed my displeasure at this and asked her to put the shoe on the other foot. Now, she did tell me that she had not talked to him since the beginning of last week. Said she's making an effort to do the right thing. I have to trust her on this. I would go insane otherwise.
    My take's a bit different on this than the others. Like the others, I think counseling is a good idea.

    BUT, I think you might cut her a bit more slack for carrying on with this guy. Both of you sound confused and when people get confused, they turn to people who they think can help.

    In the case at hand, it sounds like your wife is getting a little too close to this guy. All the same, my gut reaction would be to believe her. If he's a good friend, that should be OK so long as a few limits are observed and she keeps you in the loop.

    My wife was pissed when she found out I'd been talking to close friends about marriage issues, but my take is that's what friends do. You can trust them to help you when you really need it. Frankly I wish my wife would talk to her friends when she needs an ear or good advice and I'm not the right person to provide it or she just needs to blow off a little steam. Talking to someone who actually cares but is not so close to the action can be a good thing.

  9. #59
    Senior Member ritepath's Avatar
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    I checked her phone the first chance I had and that's where I found the emails. She'd been talking to someone at the gym, complaining about me and then as some time went by, arranging a get-together for the two of them. I called my parents, sent some of the messages to myself. Dad came over so he would witness that I didn't lose my temper. I confronted her, she tried to blame it on me.

    I've been around enough to know when things that happen and baffle you in a relationship there's almost always a third party involved. Whenever you complain about an SO to a member of the opposite sex there’s going to be trouble. It’s amazing the support you’ll find when someone has a mutual interest in you (or your wife)…
    I can’t name you the number of divorces and breakups I’ve seen over the past 15-20 or so years because of this.



    In 2009 Alone I have three case studies:

    My new neighbor; 11 years married 31yo 3 kids reconnected with an old boyfriend on FB and now she’s moved out filed for divorce. Insert the same info you posted…
    In April of this year one of my wifes best friends 32yo 10 years married “reconnected” with an old boyfriend on FB. They’re still married for now. Insert the same info you posted…
    An Ultrasound Tech my wife works with just married her “friend” she made at the fitness center that she left her husband for. Insert the same info you posted…
    (The first two also involved weight loss stories FWIW)

    I can name you dozens more with males and females on both sides of this working in a hospital I get to observe this first hand. I know from experience you can talk a married woman into lots of stuff if you find out she’s somewhat unhappy in their marriage (and at some point and time that will occur) you may have to bide your time a few months or years but you can eventually get a crack at any married female. I’m sorry I’ve have to inform you of this, and I don’t really have any marriage solutions I’m only good at messing up peoples relationships.

    It sucks it really does…best of luck.
    Last edited by ritepath; 10-27-09 at 12:59 PM.
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  10. #60
    Me and the cat... Pamestique's Avatar
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    Sorry if I am intruding... I lurk here often but seldom post.

    I am been almost exactly the same thing. after 10 years of marriage, my husband became distance. I learned through friends he had taken up with an old girlfriend. He initially denied the affair but later admitted to it. But before then we tried counseling. Problem is when one partner has made up their mind already it serves no purpose. She may however, finally feel secure enough with you (with a third party present) to disclose what bothers her. Be prepared.

    Counseling together is good, but I suggest also counseling for yourself. You will be going through alot of doubt and uncertainty and a good counselor can help you address and tackle these issues. If you are involved with a church, the pastor staff generally includes a psychologist.

    Couple things to remember: If mistakes were made, you both made them. Own up and accept your part. Hopefully your wife will as well. Make sure your house is in order; bills are paid, debt addressed, if there are children, a plan is in order. Understand this... God didn't bring the two of you together. God gave you the tools to make descerning decisions about who to love and marry. Sometimes we don't listen. Sex and love sometimes blind us to fatal flaws in our partners. Make sure your eyes are open now. If this is going to work between the two of you you need to know what those flaws are.

    If there is another person involved, your wife has basically given up on the marriage even if there is no sex involved. It does you no good to display jealosy or anger. It would tend to just make her more stubborn and set her heels. This doesn't mean she won't finally come to her senses - but it has to be her decision. What you do in the meantime is act in a manner befitting a loving and just husband and show her, not tell her, what a good man you are.

    This is a good time to rely on God, your family and friends; not try to hide what everyone probably knows. Friends help us get through tough times. Friends and God... Best wishes. Pam
    Last edited by Pamestique; 10-28-09 at 06:01 PM.
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  11. #61
    Hey guyz? Guyz? Wait up!! Siu Blue Wind's Avatar
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    Some sound advice, Pam and welcome to Foo.
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  12. #62
    Administrator CbadRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ritepath View Post

    I can name you dozens more with males and females on both sides of this working in a hospital I get to observe this first hand. I know from experience you can talk a married woman into lots of stuff if you find out sheís somewhat unhappy in their marriage (and at some point and time that will occur) you may have to bide your time a few months or years but you can eventually get a crack at any married female. Iím sorry Iíve have to inform you of this, and I donít really have any marriage solutions Iím only good at messing up peoples relationships.

    It sucks it really doesÖbest of luck.
    Wow. All married women will cheat if you hit on them when they're unhappy? This is a very sweeping statement and very untrue.
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  13. #63
    Senior Member MrCrassic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by probe1957 View Post

    That said, IMO, an overweight woman often loses weight because she wants to make herself more marketable. While you may not have had a problem with her weight, she knows, and I suspect you know, most men just don't dig fat chicks. We (men) are fundamentally shallow creatures.
    There is nothing wrong with fat chicks.

    Every time I say this, I get weird looks six ways to Sunday.
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  14. #64
    Senior Member MrCrassic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CbadRider View Post
    Wow. All married women will cheat if you hit on them when they're unhappy? This is a very sweeping statement and very untrue.
    Actually, after stories an old acquaintance told me about doing precisely that (bedding married women and proceeding to tell their husbands about their infidelity), as well as many, many other stories around the same topic, I'm willing to believe him. I really doubt the sanctimony in marriages today; with the amount of freedoms everyone has today (especially with the proliferation of social networks and such), I am really beginning to doubt whether marriage is sustainable in the long-term. Then again, this might be "that stage" for me as a 22 year old.
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  15. #65
    Me and the cat... Pamestique's Avatar
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    Marriage is sustainable but don't go into it blindly. Next to having children it will be the single most difficult decision you make as an adult.

    Too often people get wrapped up in the notion of being a couple... of the marriage itself but not the commitment. Many marriages last an eternity. I believe the secret is honesty, honesty and more honesty. Never be afraid to speak your mind; never hold back secrets. If times get tough, lay it all on the table. Before it becomes an issue.

    Your decision to wed should never be based on sexual capability... although too often now adays that's all its about. It should be based on the fact you both have the same ultimate values, goals and aspirations. That said, don't marry before age 30 (OK I am speaking as a mom) or at least until you have the maturity to be able to speak your mind freely.
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  16. #66
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    Very true Pam - I know too many people who went into marriage more to get married than to actually spend their life with someone. I think this is true in a lot of cases and is why divorce rates are so high.

    Probably a very small percentage of couples that do get married should actually be married.

    Personally I will never get married until I am 1000% sure it is the right thing to do. I agree 100% on not getting married before 30. I also think that you should date and live with someone for at least a few years before any talk of marriage. That will give you a concept of whether you can actually make it for the long haul.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pamestique View Post
    Marriage is sustainable but don't go into it blindly. Next to having children it will be the single most difficult decision you make as an adult.

    Too often people get wrapped up in the notion of being a couple... of the marriage itself but not the commitment. Many marriages last an eternity. I believe the secret is honesty, honesty and more honesty. Never be afraid to speak your mind; never hold back secrets. If times get tough, lay it all on the table. Before it becomes an issue.

    Your decision to wed should never be based on sexual capability... although too often now adays that's all its about. It should be based on the fact you both have the same ultimate values, goals and aspirations. That said, don't marry before age 30 (OK I am speaking as a mom) or at least until you have the maturity to be able to speak your mind freely.

  17. #67
    Me and the cat... Pamestique's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmt074 View Post
    I also think that you should date and live with someone for at least a few years before any talk of marriage. That will give you a concept of whether you can actually make it for the long haul.
    I disagree with you on this. I do agree it is essential to get to know someone before marriage. You can get to know someone in a short time if you are willing to ask the right questions, listen to the answers given and pay attention to behavior. It makes sense to wait at least a year after engagement to marry but I won't criticize others who don't. My folks met and were wed in a week. They have been together 60 years.

    What I disagree with is living with someone. Sorry when you do that, you become blind to behavior. You end up "playing house" and acting the married couple and not really getting to know someone. You don't need to live with someone to see they have bad habits. Just look at where they live be it with parents, friends or alone. If their space is a mess, they are slobs. If the person lives with their folks and is helpful and caring, willing to clean up after the family and pitch in with chores, you know they are going to do that after marriage.

    If you still move in with someone, it should be after there is a discussion of marriage and a commitment for the long haul. If you are male, what if the partner gets pregnant? You really want that if you aren't serious about a relationship? This is the whole argument I put forth... people are too caught up in the notion of marriage (and sex) but not the commitment. Not saying it doesn't work, just saying the odds are against you.
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  18. #68
    Rawwrrrrrrrrr! wolfpack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pamestique View Post
    marriage is sustainable but don't go into it blindly. Next to having children it will be the single most difficult decision you make as an adult.

    Too often people get wrapped up in the notion of being a couple... Of the marriage itself but not the commitment. Many marriages last an eternity. I believe the secret is honesty, honesty and more honesty. Never be afraid to speak your mind; never hold back secrets. If times get tough, lay it all on the table. Before it becomes an issue.

    Your decision to wed should never be based on sexual capability... Although too often now adays that's all its about. It should be based on the fact you both have the same ultimate values, goals and aspirations. That said, don't marry before age 30 (ok i am speaking as a mom) or at least until you have the maturity to be able to speak your mind freely.
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  19. #69
    Administrator CbadRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrCrassic View Post
    Actually, after stories an old acquaintance told me about doing precisely that (bedding married women and proceeding to tell their husbands about their infidelity), as well as many, many other stories around the same topic, I'm willing to believe him. I really doubt the sanctimony in marriages today; with the amount of freedoms everyone has today (especially with the proliferation of social networks and such), I am really beginning to doubt whether marriage is sustainable in the long-term. Then again, this might be "that stage" for me as a 22 year old.
    A guy brags to you and other people tell you stories, so that means all married women cheat? If you polled the married women here, I think you'd get quite a different answer.

    Just because you doubt the sanctimony of marriage doesn't mean everyone else does.
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  20. #70
    jackrussellsonabicycle Airwick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pamestique View Post
    I disagree with you on this.
    Pam, ever read Dobson's "Love Must Be Tough"? Whatcha think.....

  21. #71
    Who farted? Ka_Jun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pamestique View Post
    Sorry if I am intruding... I lurk here often but seldom post.

    I am been almost exactly the same thing. after 10 years of marriage, my husband became distance. I learned through friends he had taken up with an old girlfriend. He initially denied the affair but later admitted to it. But before then we tried counseling. Problem is when one partner has made up their mind already it serves no purpose. She may however, finally feel secure enough with you (with a third party present) to disclose what bothers her. Be prepared.

    Counseling together is good, but I suggest also counseling for yourself. You will be going through alot of doubt and uncertainty and a good counselor can help you address and tackle these issues. If you are involved with a church, the pastor staff generally includes a psychologist.

    Couple things to remember: If mistakes were made, you both made them. Own up and accept your part. Hopefully your wife will as well. Make sure your house is in order; bills are paid, debt addressed, if there are children, a plan is in order. Understand this... God didn't bring the two of you together. God gave you the tools to make descerning decisions about who to love and marry. Sometimes we don't listen. Sex and love sometimes blind us to fatal flaws in our partners. Make sure your eyes are open now. If this is going to work between the two of you you need to know what those flaws are.

    If there is another person involved, your wife has basically given up on the marriage even if there is no sex involved. It does you no good to display jealosy or anger. It would tend to just make her more stubborn and set her heels. This doesn't mean she won't finally come to her senses - but it has to be her decision. What you do in the meantime is act in a manner befitting a loving and just husband and show her, not tell her, what a good man you are.

    This is a good time to rely on God, your family and friends; not try to hide what everyone probably knows. Friends help us get through tough times. Friends and God... Best wishes. Pam
    Yeah man.

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    In my experience living with someone amplifies their behaviors for me, not blinds me to them. You are seeing them day in and day out. I've come across behaviors that I didn't know about while just dating so I guess it's really different from person to person. To me just because you can date someone doesn't mean you can live with them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pamestique View Post
    I disagree with you on this. I do agree it is essential to get to know someone before marriage. You can get to know someone in a short time if you are willing to ask the right questions, listen to the answers given and pay attention to behavior. It makes sense to wait at least a year after engagement to marry but I won't criticize others who don't. My folks met and were wed in a week. They have been together 60 years.

    What I disagree with is living with someone. Sorry when you do that, you become blind to behavior. You end up "playing house" and acting the married couple and not really getting to know someone. You don't need to live with someone to see they have bad habits. Just look at where they live be it with parents, friends or alone. If their space is a mess, they are slobs. If the person lives with their folks and is helpful and caring, willing to clean up after the family and pitch in with chores, you know they are going to do that after marriage.

    If you still move in with someone, it should be after there is a discussion of marriage and a commitment for the long haul. If you are male, what if the partner gets pregnant? You really want that if you aren't serious about a relationship? This is the whole argument I put forth... people are too caught up in the notion of marriage (and sex) but not the commitment. Not saying it doesn't work, just saying the odds are against you.

  23. #73
    Me and the cat... Pamestique's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmt074 View Post
    In my experience living with someone amplifies their behaviors for me, not blinds me to them. You are seeing them day in and day out. I've come across behaviors that I didn't know about while just dating so I guess it's really different from person to person. To me just because you can date someone doesn't mean you can live with them.
    Hey to each their own... most people aren't as observant as you I fear. But why do you have to live together to see bad behavior? If you are with someone enough to want to marry them, you should be able to see that behavior without having to play man and wife. Just my take. Been there done that... reality to me the living together thing does not work well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pamestique View Post
    Hey to each their own... most people aren't as observant as you I fear. But why do you have to live together to see bad behavior? If you are with someone enough to want to marry them, you should be able to see that behavior without having to play man and wife. Just my take. Been there done that... reality to me the living together thing does not work well.
    Pam,
    My wife and I lived together for 8 months before getting married. We had already committed to each other, and the "living in sin" was for convenience. We were engaged, both lived in 1br apts. and our leases were up. We shacked up so we would move 1X. That was 15 yrs ago . We were not "playing" at man and wife, we were living it without a licence!

    I have a friend who lived with his girlfriend for 10 years before getting married. His parents both divorced twice each before finding the right mate. He was gunshy after his experience growing up. Every person has a different life story and for that reason, what is right for one person is not right for all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Herbie53 View Post
    Being full of crap and depositing it here consistently is really nothing to be proud of.

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    Quote Originally Posted by probe1957 View Post
    That said, IMO, an overweight woman often loses weight because she wants to make herself more marketable.
    I agree with the rest of your post, but this is bogus. In most cases, women lose weight for themselves.

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