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Thread: Vacations

  1. #1
    superArti artifice's Avatar
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    Vacations

    warning, longish dramatic story.

    A few weeks ago the BF told me he was going to LA to visit some friends from college- 1 guy who's married, and a female friend. I immediately went guano-crazy (internally, I'm pretty good about not being a complete crazy woman), about him going to LA to visit some female friend. I'm pretty sure that is who he's staying with because they are better friends, but I was afraid to ask.

    I did eventually call and tell him it bothered me he was going to visit a female friend- very short convo, got the appropriate understanding and reassurance I needed. He pointed out I have guy friends just like he has female friends (i know this, most of my friends are guys and 2 of them visited me in Denver. I asked the BF and he had no issue). I left a very bad relationship about a year before I met him filled with lies and cheating. I feel like I'm experiencing some relationship PTSD. I'm trying very hard to trust and not be scared, but its difficult.

    I've reflected a lot the past couple weeks, and one of the biggest things eating me is "why wouldn't i be invited?" And then I over think, and thoughts like... he must be hiding something... start sneaking in. My insecurities are manifesting themselves. He left yesterday and I didn't sleep pretty much all night, today I feel completely nauseous.

    I'm shocked at myself and embarrassed that I am apparently jealous, and insecure.


    SO, the questions for bf are:
    1) at what point in a relationship do you think it becomes inappropriate to be vacationing to visit friends of the opposite sex, and not invite your SO?
    2) what the heck do i say when he comes back; and how do i keep it together talking to him while he's there?
    3) how do i not go crazy until he comes back sunday?
    i woke up one morning and i stepped out of bed | had to get a bike, had to paint it red
    Of all the treasures I have, itís the memories that are the most precious.

  2. #2
    Riding Heaven's Highways on the grand tour ModoVincere's Avatar
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    1) when married.
    2) just ask what he did while there....surfing? biking? hiking? Disney? etc. Don't go where your fears are.
    3) Ride....lots of mileage.
    1 bronze, 0 silver, 1 gold

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    superArti artifice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ModoVincere View Post
    1) when married.
    2) just ask what he did while there....surfing? biking? hiking? Disney? etc. Don't go where your fears are.
    3) Ride....lots of mileage.
    1) do not like
    2) you're right
    3) meeeh so demotivated atm.

    i thought he knew how important traveling, and with a S.O was to me. I guess I never spelled it out... is it ok for me to tell him I was a little hurt I wasn't invited and explain why? or just don't even go there?
    i woke up one morning and i stepped out of bed | had to get a bike, had to paint it red
    Of all the treasures I have, itís the memories that are the most precious.

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    Riding Heaven's Highways on the grand tour ModoVincere's Avatar
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    yes, imo

    but give it a little time.....unless you are just stewing and it will get worse. Good communication is the most vital thing there is to a relationship. Followed closely by lots of wild sex.
    1 bronze, 0 silver, 1 gold

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    Fax Transport Specialist black_box's Avatar
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    lots of variables there. If he was ok with guy friends visiting you in Denver (i think you two were dating then?), then he probably assumed that the reverse would be true as well. have you gone on vacations together before? do you do everything together now?

    Its going to come down to trust, I know it sucks, BTDT. Give him the benefit of the doubt and just pay attention to how he acts on his return.

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    I'm not going to be of much help in setting your mind at ease.

    1. When exclusively seeing each other.
    2. No idea. I would slap him around a bit...verbally.
    3. Swim, ride a bike, run, or just keep your mind occupied.

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    Nothing here to see!!!!!! flyingscotsman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ModoVincere View Post
    1) when married.
    2) just ask what he did while there....surfing? biking? hiking? Disney? etc. Don't go where your fears are.
    3) Ride....lots of mileage.

    Have to agree with all three of these.

    Also if you are jealous of him having female friends, then you need to ditch all your male friends.

    The only female friends I hang out with nowadays are my wife's female friends, make life much easier.

    Having said that i did just leave the wife for two week's while I was in Scotland, but that was for family reasons.

  8. #8
    superArti artifice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyingscotsman View Post
    Have to agree with all three of these.

    Also if you are jealous of him having female friends, then you need to ditch all your male friends.

    The only female friends I hang out with nowadays are my wife's female friends, make life much easier.

    Having said that i did just leave the wife for two week's while I was in Scotland, but that was for family reasons.
    Quote Originally Posted by black_box View Post
    lots of variables there. If he was ok with guy friends visiting you in Denver (i think you two were dating then?), then he probably assumed that the reverse would be true as well. have you gone on vacations together before? do you do everything together now?

    Its going to come down to trust, I know it sucks, BTDT. Give him the benefit of the doubt and just pay attention to how he acts on his return.
    Yes, I realize the double-standard here, which is why I haven't said much about it, I'm trying to figure out how to cope with my feelings, so we don't end up in one of those relationships where we're giving up or friends to please one another; that's just not right. I sincerely appreciate his understanding of my guy friends, and do not take it for granted.

    We don't do everything together (we live about 100 miles apart), and have not had an opportunity to vacation together. The first nearly year we were together the only traveling we did was him to visit me and vice-versa. We have discussed taking a ski-cation, but planning for that has been losing steam (on his end, mostly), and then he goes on this trip.... another reason why it chafes a little. I was looking forward to finally being able to kick back away with him, and now hes off doing it without me. :-/


    It is comforting to hear that the peoples of BF do not find it unconventional or weird he's traveling to visit a female friend. It further reinforces the fact that I am crazy but it is ok
    i woke up one morning and i stepped out of bed | had to get a bike, had to paint it red
    Of all the treasures I have, itís the memories that are the most precious.

  9. #9
    On my TARDIScycle! KingTermite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ModoVincere View Post
    1) when married.
    2) just ask what he did while there....surfing? biking? hiking? Disney? etc. Don't go where your fears are.
    3) Ride....lots of mileage.
    +1


    Arti....take it from someone who's had some CRAZY JEALOUS girlfriends in the past....it can be scarring. DON'T BE THAT PERSON. Give him the benefit of the doubt and don't try to read in the situation more than what is there. It will be the equivalent of putting words in his mouth.....you'll start getting pissed about things that aren't even true.

    Like MV said, when he comes back....don't give him the 3rd degree. Just ask him how his time was and let him tell you however he plans to.
    Quote Originally Posted by coffeecake View Post
    - it's pretty well established that Hitler was an *******.

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    Nothing here to see!!!!!! flyingscotsman's Avatar
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    Nah your not crazy, I still have lunch with VegaVixen on a regular basis.

    My wife's not jealous, I did finally arrange for them to meet one day, no issues there what so ever.

    Long distance relationships suck.

    My long distance relationship worked, dammed if I know how it worked.

  11. #11
    phony collective progress x136's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by artifice View Post
    SO, the questions for bf are:
    1) at what point in a relationship do you think it becomes inappropriate to be vacationing to visit friends of the opposite sex, and not invite your SO?
    2) what the heck do i say when he comes back; and how do i keep it together talking to him while he's there?
    3) how do i not go crazy until he comes back sunday?
    1) Never. If you think that he's running off to boink someone, it's a trust issue, not a segregation of the genders issue.
    2) "Welcome back, did you have a good time?"
    3) Repeat to yourself that you're likely making a mountain out of... not even a mole hill. Ant hill? Salt flats? Busy yourself with other things and enjoy yourself in the meantime.

    Don't get me wrong, I know how it is for a mind to go crazy with things you don't want to/need to think about, so I'll wish you luck in focus on other things.

  12. #12
    superArti artifice's Avatar
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    thanks foos, you've been very helpful calming my anxiety. i just ate some bfast, so i'm feeling a little less dumpy

    Quote Originally Posted by x136 View Post
    1) Never. If you think that he's running off to boink someone, it's a trust issue, not a segregation of the genders issue
    yes, trust is the issue. and, i realize my trust issues are based on past experiences, not any concern or mistrust he has ever caused me; so i'm working hard not to mis-place blame. however, having this anxiety and just bottling it up isn't good, either :-/
    i woke up one morning and i stepped out of bed | had to get a bike, had to paint it red
    Of all the treasures I have, itís the memories that are the most precious.

  13. #13
    Lio Fralop Polar Foil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by artifice View Post
    1) at what point in a relationship do you think it becomes inappropriate to be vacationing to visit friends of the opposite sex, and not invite your SO?
    2) what the heck do i say when he comes back; and how do i keep it together talking to him while he's there?
    3) how do i not go crazy until he comes back sunday?
    1) There's no one size fits all answer--it's something you and your SO have to agree on. If you can't agree (and trust each other to uphold) then your relationship is bound to suffer. Like another poster said, communication is key. That being said, whilst some males actually can have platonic female friendships, it's rarer than it is the other way around. So, IMHO females have more right to be suspicious of a male's intentions with female friends. The simple answer to your question, however, is as another poster said: marriage. Marriage is the best defining line, because before then you're simply involved or pledged, but not committed. Think of it this way, in breakfast the hen is involved (providing eggs) but the pig is committed (dying in order to provide bacon or sausage). Or, think of it this way: when your university phone-a-thon calls you to donate, you may pledge $100 but you are not committed to that $100 until you mail the check. Boyfriends and girlfriends are 'involved' with or 'pledged' to one another, but not committed as a married couple. You have to face the fact that a boyfriend's intentions are "subject to change at any time without notice." If you love him, let him go. If he loves you he'll come back...to paraphrase the proverb.

    2) No offense but you should have already had a conversation about it--you said he mentioned this to you a few weeks ago. But let's not dwell on that--when he returns just bring it up plainly and have a reasonable, rational (non-emotional) conversation about it. Remember that if he says he doesn't want to talk about it or seems uncommunicative about it, it could be one of two things: he might actually have feelings for this person he either expressed or doesn't know what to do with and he's ashamed; or he may just sense he's in for a lecture or berating--in either case it's very important you stay completely calm and casual...don't give him any reason to think you're upset or even suspicious...and maybe it's just not the right time to talk about it so let him know it's ok but you will ask him again sometime. The next time you bring it up if he still won't have a conversation about it, you must let him know clearly that this conversation is essential to your continued relationship. Not like an ultimatum, but more like a check-the-box activity to make sure you're both on the same page about the level of your relationship.

    3) Do whatever you do to take your mind off things in general. For some people it's working out, for others it's engrossing entertainment (movies, books, video games)...maybe you just need to be with your closest friends--talk or don't talk to them about it depending on whether you'd rather just get your mind off it and deal with it yourself, or get other opinions. Maybe you know a couple people who might have gone through this themselves. Whatever you do, when you lay down to go to sleep at night, you need to tell yourself there's no sense in worrying about it then because there's nothing you can do--you can't control it and it makes no sense to worry about things out of your control.

  14. #14
    Administrator CbadRider's Avatar
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    Was he going to LA specifically to visit these friends? I wouldn't invite my SO if I was just going to visit friends I hadn't seen in a long time. I'd feel like I had to entertain the SO and couldn't just hang out and catch up with the friends.
    Quote Originally Posted by toddles View Post
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    Blocking your fire exits coffeecake's Avatar
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    It's normal to feel this way, especially with your dating history. Don't feel bad or guilty about your feelings.

    Mr Coffeecake's best friend was a girl when we first started dating - they would go on trips together (along with her kid) and sleep in the same hotel room. I had a really hard time with this, but I was able to tell him up front how I was feeling in a non-judgmental way. He was nothing but kind and honest, but at the same time his infinite patience with my insecurity was wearing thin. Thankfully I've nutted up since then.

    It boils down to a trust issue, and it's not something you gain overnight. Look at his trip as a trust-building exercise. You're superArti! You can pass this, no sweat.
    Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation.
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  16. #16
    Senior Member Chacal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by artifice View Post
    I left a very bad relationship about a year before I met him filled with lies and cheating. I feel like I'm experiencing some relationship PTSD. I'm trying very hard to trust and not be scared, but its difficult.
    look at it this way - what is the WORST thing that could happen? whatever that is (boinking, etc.), you will probably know as soon as he returns (maybe sooner; over the phone, etc.). You have that experience under your belt now and you are an intelligent person. You will know if something is wrong. But don't LOOK for things that are wrong....I understand being afraid of getting hurt again, but don't let that stop you from enjoying relationships.

    Take it one day at a time. Listen to your gut. If something isn't right, you'll know. This could very well be nothing important/symbolic/threatening. Trust, have faith (in him, and your own judgement) and see what tomorrow brings. You are more than strong enough to handle it.

  17. #17
    Fax Transport Specialist black_box's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coffeecake
    Thankfully I've nutted up since then.
    Yeah arti, nut up!!

  18. #18
    superArti artifice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polar Foil View Post
    1) Or, think of it this way: when your university phone-a-thon calls you to donate, you may pledge $100 but you are not committed to that $100 until you mail the check. Boyfriends and girlfriends are 'involved' with or 'pledged' to one another, but not committed as a married couple. You have to face the fact that a boyfriend's intentions are "subject to change at any time without notice." If you love him, let him go. If he loves you he'll come back...to paraphrase the proverb.
    I like this. actually, i like everything you said but this one in particular was a home run. I've decided to adopt "You may be deceived if you trust too much, but you will live in torment if you don't trust enough." as my mantra for awhile. I can feel distrust eating me and it is an awful feeling!

    Quote Originally Posted by coffeecake View Post
    It boils down to a trust issue, and it's not something you gain overnight. Look at his trip as a trust-building exercise. You're superArti! You can pass this, no sweat.
    well, i really hate to fail, so i guess my other option is to WIN this one, right?!

    Quote Originally Posted by CbadRider View Post
    Was he going to LA specifically to visit these friends? I wouldn't invite my SO if I was just going to visit friends I hadn't seen in a long time. I'd feel like I had to entertain the SO and couldn't just hang out and catch up with the friends.
    yes, just a weekend away.
    now that you put it that way - i've been looking forward to going to denver and just visiting my denver friends (most of them female, actually). initially i thought about the bf coming with, but later decided i just want to go have time away. I'm actually planning on working remotely most of the week. I did extend an invite for him to come out for the weekend to hit some slopes, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chacal View Post
    look at it this way - what is the WORST thing that could happen? whatever that is (boinking, etc.), you will probably know as soon as he returns (maybe sooner; over the phone, etc.). You have that experience under your belt now and you are an intelligent person. You will know if something is wrong. But don't LOOK for things that are wrong....I understand being afraid of getting hurt again, but don't let that stop you from enjoying relationships.

    Take it one day at a time. Listen to your gut. If something isn't right, you'll know. This could very well be nothing important/symbolic/threatening. Trust, have faith (in him, and your own judgement) and see what tomorrow brings. You are more than strong enough to handle it.
    thanks chacal.
    i woke up one morning and i stepped out of bed | had to get a bike, had to paint it red
    Of all the treasures I have, itís the memories that are the most precious.

  19. #19
    Sore saddle cyclist Shifty's Avatar
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    "Worry is a misuse of the imagination"

    Think of all the other things in life that are more fun to think about, and go there.

    Probability is that you have nothing to worry about, make a list of great places you'd like to vacation with BF and share it when the subject comes up in the future. Send a welcome home note to him via snail mail so it's there when he gets home, short and simple so he knows you care.
    Those voices in your head aren't real, but they have some great ideas

  20. #20
    superArti artifice's Avatar
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    I thought I'd give foo an update!

    By friday I'd only received 2 txts (from wed-friday), and started to get a little worrisome again. He txted me friday afternoon and i wrote back a note and inclued "chat later? Its been a long week, would be good to hear from you..." by 9pm CST I still hadn't heard from him, so i made a quick call. He seemed distant, and the convo was awkward/forced. He was hanging out at his friend's apt while she was doing errands. I was confused he was doing nothing, and didn't call? I felt left a little high & dry, but didn't say anything. At the end of the call I asked "Everything going ok? still miss me?" and he kind of mumbled through his teeth "miss you, cant wait to see you"

    I had a mini-panic attack when I go off the phone. I ended up texting him back "I'm feeling a little girly and just need some comfort... I mentioned to you this is had for me, and I'm trying very hard not to put that on you, but even just a little text lovin while you are gone would help me a lot" he was very responsive, and wrote me some nice messages back that night & a few on sat.

    He came here first thing after his plane landed yesterday. To sum up his trip, as he put it-- his friend "forgot" to tell him she was having some major mental health issues (likely because she hasn't admitted it yet). Recently her mom flew out from the midwest & had her committed. 72 hour hold & then she was released... Sounds like extreme paranoia from a home break-in she went through in college (our college had a well-known panty thief that was caught with 800+ pairs of undies), after he got caught doing that, he got caught having broken into this girl's house and stolen more (fortunately she was on vacation and not present for the break-in).

    Now, she's paranoid someone/everyone is stalking her. My BF (and apparently her parents as well as cops think she is having mental health issues). On a side note- I encouraged my BF to take it seriously and encourage her to call the cops whenever she feels afraid- can't take that stuff lightly. Plus, it will either either establish a patter of a possible stalker, or her own crazy episodes, which would be important if she ends up needing to be committed again. At any rate, the bf was feeling pretty emotionally exhausted from the weekend, and didn't get much out of his "vacation".

    I was happy to see him, and didn't bring up my issues yesterday, but I do need to talk to him about it. I essentially just want to let him know that I've discovered my trust issues are worse than I thought (I basically went through a mini-emotional breakdown over this), and need to open the lines of communication so I can figure out how to deal with it in a healthy way.

    At any rate, this was an important exercise for me: that the whole situation really was ok, and I just need to be better about telling him what I need, because he always does deliver. (asking for anything is just really really hard for me!)
    i woke up one morning and i stepped out of bed | had to get a bike, had to paint it red
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  21. #21
    Mrs. DataJunkie Luddite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DataJunkie View Post
    I'm not going to be of much help in setting your mind at ease.

    1. When exclusively seeing each other.
    2. No idea. I would slap him around a bit...verbally.
    3. Swim, ride a bike, run, or just keep your mind occupied.
    I agree. I would find it inappropriate that either party should be staying someone's place (of the opposite sex.) I feel that your BF, arty, should respect that you've been cheated on in the past and be sensitive to that, why is he not staying at a male friend's place?

  22. #22
    Cycler Suzie Green's Avatar
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    I'm going to mostly agree with the statement made (in a few places) about the possibility of a double standard here. I realize this is a long distance relationship, i.e. you aren't living together and sorting each other's underwear on a regular basis. This (the distance, not the underwear) can be a tricky situation. It's not like you're "almost married" in which case I would be having a lot more of an issue with him going off without you...or going off at all. I think if you want that comfort level that it sounds like you need, then the only way to get that will be to deliver the ultimatum that he stop seeing ALL women friends and you'll do the same with male friends. This is a tough call though, it might make him (or maybe even you) a bit resentful.

  23. #23
    Senior Member travelmama's Avatar
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    I agree with SG however, I am wondering if the "friend" really is YOU. Also, weren't you on here some time ago complaining about wanting to part ways?
    Two Wheels One Love

  24. #24
    superArti artifice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luddite View Post
    I agree. I would find it inappropriate that either party should be staying someone's place (of the opposite sex.) I feel that your BF, arty, should respect that you've been cheated on in the past and be sensitive to that, why is he not staying at a male friend's place?
    well for one, he wasn't aware of my previous situation until this vacation came up and I told him about it. and secondly, I don't feel that my sensitivity means he needs to change how he lives his life. It just means we need better communication. communication has been a pretty consistent issue, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Suzie Green View Post
    I'm going to mostly agree with the statement made (in a few places) about the possibility of a double standard here. I realize this is a long distance relationship, i.e. you aren't living together and sorting each other's underwear on a regular basis. This (the distance, not the underwear) can be a tricky situation. It's not like you're "almost married" in which case I would be having a lot more of an issue with him going off without you...or going off at all. I think if you want that comfort level that it sounds like you need, then the only way to get that will be to deliver the ultimatum that he stop seeing ALL women friends and you'll do the same with male friends. This is a tough call though, it might make him (or maybe even you) a bit resentful.
    I firmly disagree hat is the "only" way to get the comfort I'm looking for. i would never expect a significant other to give up their friends, regardless of gender- I don't think that is healthy... and I am aware of the double-standard, I mentioned it myself. Just living and learning how to deal with it, thats all.

    Quote Originally Posted by travelmama View Post
    I agree with SG however, I am wondering if the "friend" really is YOU.
    ...huh? can you expand, please?
    Quote Originally Posted by travelmama View Post
    Also, weren't you on here some time ago complaining about wanting to part ways?
    I think you must be confused with someone else.
    Last edited by artifice; 11-23-09 at 10:23 PM.
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  25. #25
    Senior Member travelmama's Avatar
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    I do remember you mentioning that you really are not "into" your boyfriend and feels as though is really is not the one for you. Also, with the trust issues you suffer from nearly put you in the same boat as the FRIEND. Being cheated on hurts. It hurts bad, I know because a self loathing sucker did it to me but you were not honest by informing him of your past and how you don't want it to happen again. For this could be part of why you grew angry about the situation from jump street.
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