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  1. #1
    Senior Member DukeArcher's Avatar
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    Photo Manipulation Discussion

    AllenG, what are the rules with using Photoshop? - just curious.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Allen's Avatar
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    So long as you are the photographer chop away.

    I would like to make photo manipulation a theme one month, maybe May's.

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    Member macfred's Avatar
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    I did not know, that it is against the rules using photo manipulation in this contest ...Sorry!
    I`m going to change my pic soon.

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  4. #4
    Chepooka StupidlyBrave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllenG View Post
    So long as you are the photographer chop away.

    I would like to make photo manipulation a theme one month, maybe May's.
    I'd also like to see the opposite - "What the camera lens sees".


    Quote Originally Posted by macfred View Post
    I did not know, that it is against the rules using photo manipulation in this contest ...Sorry!
    I`m going to change my pic soon.

    greetings
    macfred
    Apparently not against the rules. Use whatever one you feel fits the theme best.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Allen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StupidlyBrave View Post
    I'd also like to see the opposite - "What the camera lens sees".

    .
    No manipulation is a tricky thing. Film speed, exposure time, aperture, are all kinds of manipulation too.
    Even a pin hole uses manipulation.

    But I get what you are saying.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Allen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StupidlyBrave View Post
    I'd also like to see the opposite - "What the camera lens sees".

    .
    No manipulation is a tricky thing. Film speed, exposure time, aperture, are all kinds of manipulation too.
    Even a pin hole uses manipulation.

    But I get what you are saying.

  7. #7
    Chepooka StupidlyBrave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllenG View Post
    No manipulation is a tricky thing. Film speed, exposure time, aperture, are all kinds of manipulation too.
    Even a pin hole uses manipulation.

    But I get what you are saying.
    Yes, I would have better stated that as a no post processing theme.

  8. #8
    Senior Member DukeArcher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllenG View Post
    So long as you are the photographer chop away.

    I would like to make photo manipulation a theme one month, maybe May's.
    Can we have 'no photoshop' month? (I don't know how to use it!)

  9. #9
    Senior Member Allen's Avatar
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    Well, what is considered manipulation?
    Changing the image size, correcting the color, converting the image to monotone, using a sharpening filter, removing dust marks?


    The photojournalism standard is nothing added to the image, a la my Chipcom chops, but all of the below are considered ok.







    And manipulation starts before you press the shutter release.



    This is straight out of the camera (minus a resize). What time of day was it taken?









    Nope, 2:15 am.


    Come up with a set of rules y'all can agree on for a non-minipulated contest and it'll be the theme next month.

  10. #10
    GATC
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    Quote Originally Posted by StupidlyBrave View Post
    Yes, I would have better stated that as a no post processing theme.
    I cropped mine

  11. #11
    The Site Administrator: Currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes,please contact my assistnt admins for forum issues Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
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    Then there are photographers like me, that like to use Ansel Adams push/pull and post production techniques. Do you think Ansel did those spectacular pics out of the lens? They are all dark room technique. His negatives were terrible! I just use digital manipulation in the same vein, a little burn or dodge to bring out a specific mood or highlight.

    Quote Originally Posted by StupidlyBrave View Post
    I'd also like to see the opposite - "What the camera lens sees".




    Apparently not against the rules. Use whatever one you feel fits the theme best.
    on light duty due to illness; please contact my assistants for forum issues. They are Siu Blue Wind, or CbadRider or the other 3 star folk. I am currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes. I am making good progress, happily.


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  12. #12
    Chepooka StupidlyBrave's Avatar
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    This is supposed to be fun and easy. Let's not clutter up the photo thread with distracting commentary. Sorry about that.

    I'll send some private messages to clarify what I mean.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Allen's Avatar
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    Photo Manipulation Discussion

    I'm starting this thread so we can have a place outside of the contest thread to discuss manipulation of images.

    The above posts are pulled from the contest thread.
    Last edited by Allen; 04-05-10 at 08:35 PM.

  14. #14
    Senior Member mikeybikes's Avatar
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    No photo manipulation? I shoot in raw... so that would mean I couldn't convert it? I mean correcting for white balance and stuff is considered photo manipulation.

    Also, as Tom mentioned, post processing has been used since the beginning of photography. From the very first steps of putting the film in the developer, you do post processing. Make judgments on how long to develop the film, which developer, etc, which all have effects on the film.

    Maybe a theme one month could be to show off your photochopping. I can't see the other way.
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  15. #15
    Chepooka StupidlyBrave's Avatar
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    If we're discussing rules, let's keep them simple. Remember that those voting for images that they like may not interpret rules the same way you as the photographer does.

    The rules Allen posts are simple enough, don't post something you didn't take. If you're merging photos into one image, by extension, you should be the creator of all the images. You'll be taken for your word.

    The theme for the month should challenge you as a contestant. That's not a rule, but I think it's a good test of a theme.

    If the winner of a monthly contest decides that a "no manipulation" theme is desired, they should be prepared to specify what that means to them. Allen clearly demonstrated (at least to me) why that is more subjective than you might think. In my mind, a "no manipulation" theme should challenge the photographer to use the most out of their camera and not post-process the image with an editor. As I mentioned to Allen via PM, if the "rules" become too burdensome, it will detract from the popularity of the thread. I certainly don't want that.

  16. #16
    You Know!? For Kids! jsharr's Avatar
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    In Soviet Russia, photo manipulates you.
    Are you a registered member? Why not? Click here to register. It's free and only takes 27 seconds! Help out the forums, abide by our community guidelines.
    Quote Originally Posted by colorider View Post
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  17. #17
    Senior Member Allen's Avatar
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    From the National Press Photographers Association's code of ethics.

    Editing should maintain the integrity of the photographic images' content and context. Do not manipulate images...in any way that can mislead viewers or misrepresent subjects.

    I think the easiest way to make rules for a non-maniuplated theme would be to declare what filters are acceptable. Example: color correction, resize, sharpen.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Allen's Avatar
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    From the National Press Photographers Association's code of ethics.

    Editing should maintain the integrity of the photographic images' content and context. Do not manipulate images...in any way that can mislead viewers or misrepresent subjects.

    I think the easiest way to make rules for a non-maniuplated theme would be to declare what filters are acceptable. Example: color correction, resize, sharpen.

  19. #19
    Junior Member DancesWithGolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllenG View Post
    From the National Press Photographers Association's code of ethics.

    Editing should maintain the integrity of the photographic images' content and context. Do not manipulate images...in any way that can mislead viewers or misrepresent subjects.

    I think the easiest way to make rules for a non-maniuplated theme would be to declare what filters are acceptable. Example: color correction, resize, sharpen.
    These rules apply to photojournalism pictures. The only rule for artistic shots entered in this theme contest is that it was taken by the person submitting it.

  20. #20
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Stormcrowe View Post
    Then there are photographers like me, that like to use Ansel Adams push/pull and post production techniques. Do you think Ansel did those spectacular pics out of the lens? They are all dark room technique. His negatives were terrible! I just use digital manipulation in the same vein, a little burn or dodge to bring out a specific mood or highlight.
    Zone system.

    ETA: I have followed photography for years and in the past, studied Adams and his techniques, to a degree anyway. I never heard that his "negatives were terrible." In fact, this one looks pretty damned good to me. http://photo.net/photography-news-forum/00UlW6

    Tom, I would be most interested in a source you might have that led you to conclude his negatives were of poor quality.
    Last edited by probe1957; 04-06-10 at 10:41 AM.

  21. #21
    Senior Member Allen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DancesWithGolf View Post
    These rules apply to photojournalism pictures. The only rule for artistic shots entered in this theme contest is that it was taken by the person submitting it.
    This is not about changing the rules for all months, just for one month if we do a non-manipulated theme.

  22. #22
    Senior Member Allen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DancesWithGolf View Post
    These rules apply to photojournalism pictures. The only rule for artistic shots entered in this theme contest is that it was taken by the person submitting it.
    This is not about changing the rules for all months, just for one month if we do a non-manipulated theme.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Allen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsharr View Post
    In Soviet Russia, photo manipulates you.
    I guess this one is out.


  24. #24
    The Site Administrator: Currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes,please contact my assistnt admins for forum issues Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
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    Clarification: Compared to the final print result, the negatives were terrible.
    Quote Originally Posted by probe1957 View Post
    Zone system.

    ETA: I have followed photography for years and in the past, studied Adams and his techniques, to a degree anyway. I never heard that his "negatives were terrible." In fact, this one looks pretty damned good to me. http://photo.net/photography-news-forum/00UlW6

    Tom, I would be most interested in a source you might have that led you to conclude his negatives were of poor quality.
    on light duty due to illness; please contact my assistants for forum issues. They are Siu Blue Wind, or CbadRider or the other 3 star folk. I am currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes. I am making good progress, happily.


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