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  1. #1
    Bike Junkie aadhils's Avatar
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    Apple beat Microsoft by Market Capitalization


  2. #2
    derailleurs are overrated bigbenaugust's Avatar
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    yet neither is bigger than Big Oil... but I guess it's only a new gadget away.
    --Ben
    Carrboro Bike Coalition - putting the "bike" in "CARrboro" :)
    2011 Motobecane Fantom Cross Uno, 2009 Motobecane Fantom CX
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  3. #3
    Portland Fred banerjek's Avatar
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    They must be the best since they have the highest profit margins.

    If Big Oil and M$ could improve their margins, I'm sure their popularity would improve. It's strange that people buy the most from the low margin businesses they hate the most.

  4. #4
    Bike Junkie aadhils's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by banerjek View Post
    They must be the best since they have the highest profit margins.

    If Big Oil and M$ could improve their margins, I'm sure their popularity would improve. It's strange that people buy the most from the low margin businesses they hate the most.
    Why are you getting irked by a point I am not trying to prove?

  5. #5
    Portland Fred banerjek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aadhils View Post
    Why are you getting irked by a point I am not trying to prove?
    Who says I'm irked?

    If a company sells something I like for the right price, I buy. Otherwise I don't. I presume other people do the same. I do find the fascination in this forum with the value of Apple interesting. Why care about them any more than any other company? It's not like it's hard to find outfits with billions in market capitalization that everyone knows about.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by banerjek View Post
    They must be the best since they have the highest profit margins.

    If Big Oil and M$ could improve their margins, I'm sure their popularity would improve. It's strange that people buy the most from the low margin businesses they hate the most.
    Microsoft's margins are much higher than Apple's.

  7. #7
    Bike Junkie aadhils's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by banerjek View Post
    Why care about them any more than any other company?
    They've made me a happy computer user.

    Apple haters can bash them all they wont but that won't erase the years of frustration I've experienced with Windows.

    I find success driven by a quest for perfection, fascinating.

  8. #8
    Senior Member AnthonyG's Avatar
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    Hey I'm a fan of Apple computers and I'm working with a power mac but I'm not sure that Apple having a bigger market capitalization than Microsoft is a good thing. Seriously if your only supplying a much smaller % of the market but your company is worth slightly more than your competitor on the stock market who is still supplying the lion's share of the market then where is the value for the stock holder?

    I don't get it. Does anyone who understands the stock market well want to explain it.

    Anthony
    Last edited by AnthonyG; 05-27-10 at 02:50 AM.

  9. #9
    Bike Junkie aadhils's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnthonyG View Post
    Hey I a fan of Apple computers and I'm working with a power mac but I'm not sure that Apple having a bigger market capitalization than Microsoft is a good thing. Seriously if your only supplying a much smaller % of the market but your company is worth slightly more than your competitor on the stock market who is still supplying the lion's share of the market then where is the value for the stock holder?

    I don't get it. Does anyone who understands the stock market well want to explain it.

    Anthony
    I'm not talking from a stockholder's perspective but from a consumers perspective. Apple makes more money; they have and adequate budget to make better products and the customer is happy. It's a win-win situation.

    The only one's who are sad are the one's who dislike apple's success. Us "Gullible mac fanboys" totally ruin their day

  10. #10
    Portland Fred banerjek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aadhils View Post
    They've made me a happy computer user.

    Apple haters can bash them all they wont but that won't erase the years of frustration I've experienced with Windows.

    I find success driven by a quest for perfection, fascinating.
    Perfection? Give me a break. It's all about style. As if surfing the net, typing documents, and other stuff is so much different on a Mac. A trained monkey could use either system. Actually, he could probably figure it out without training.

    If you were constantly having problems, you needed to quit installing so much crap or adding cheap 3rd party drivers/hardware. You don't need Steve Jobs to do that.

  11. #11
    Portland Fred banerjek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aadhils View Post
    The only one's who are sad are the one's who dislike apple's success. Us "Gullible mac fanboys" totally ruin their day
    The only reason people respond to the fanboys is they come across like L. Ron Hubbard fanatics who divide the world into "Apple vs. everything else." That many other companies sell hardware is obviously something they haven't picked up on yet.

    Happily, Toshiba, Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc (or if we're talking phones, HTC, Samsung, Motorola, etc) fanboys know no one gives a rat's ass about what kind of hardware they like so they don't blather incessantly about it.

    If Apple really were so great, it would have taken over years ago.

  12. #12
    Bike Junkie aadhils's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by banerjek View Post
    Perfection? Give me a break. It's all about style. As if surfing the net, typing documents, and other stuff is so much different on a Mac. A trained monkey could use either system. Actually, he could probably figure it out without training.
    PCs are MUCH more tedious to use than Macs.

    Quote Originally Posted by banerjek View Post
    If you were constantly having problems, you needed to quit installing so much crap or adding cheap 3rd party drivers/hardware. You don't need Steve Jobs to do that.
    Lol, Dell's come with crap pre installed! I was reminded of the awfulness of windows when I tried to get a scanner to work (on windows 7 no less). As of now, the feeder still does not work and no matter which driver I installed; it just refuses to work. Macs are practically plug and play.

  13. #13
    Portland Fred banerjek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aadhils View Post
    PCs are MUCH more tedious to use than Macs.
    Explain exactly what is so different. You click on the icon you want, the program pops up, and you can control what happens on the screen using your mouse, keyboard, or touch screen.

    Quote Originally Posted by aadhils View Post
    Lol, Dell's come with crap pre installed! I was reminded of the awfulness of windows when I tried to get a scanner to work (on windows 7 no less). As of now, the feeder still does not work and no matter which driver I installed; it just refuses to work. Macs are practically plug and play.
    Again, there are different companies that make the machines so this is an individual company issue and is not inherent to the OS. Companies pay to have Dell and other outfits install crap, and Dell uses this to lower costs. It is not obligatory to buy the machines with crap on them, and even in Dell's case, you can get the machines without that.

    As for your scanner problems, Windows should not be held responsible if you buy cheap crappy third party hardware that comes with poorly written drivers. There are plenty of products that work fine. People have fewer problems with Apple because you do not have the option of trying to use all this much cheaper 3rd party stuff. But this is not inherent to the OS.

    Consider the Flash brouhaha with iPad. Apple doesn't want Flash on the iPad because they say it will make it not run as well and they'll get blamed. Apple is right about that. So they solve the problem by not letting consumers make that choice. But again, this increase in stability has been achieved through policy and not through technical superiority.

  14. #14
    Portland Fred banerjek's Avatar
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    I will grant that many new Windows machines never run well, even if they are free of garbage. Especially at the lower end of the price range, you'll see some really low quality components. If you buy decent hardware, you won't get these problems. If you want a more accurate comparison of Apple hardware with Windows alternatives, compare it with the stuff in a similar price range, not the stuff at the bottom of the barrel.

  15. #15
    OnTheRoad or AtTheBeach stonecrd's Avatar
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    I own both stocks but don't make the mistake of thinking that Apple is successful because of their computers. They are in the current position based on their other devices not their computers. I sell software to fortune 500 companies for a living, you know how many companies want our software on Apple, 0%. They are still primarily used for personal use, students and for creative design. MS still owns the corporate desktop. Apple gets a big margin advantage as they are selling to low volume customers and can get higher prices. MS is selling to big corporations who negotiate huge volume discounts. In addition MS sales get hurt by piracy much more than Apple does. MS is also struggling on the mobile device side as Apple and Android have stronger products.
    The problem with the gene pool is that there is no lifeguard and the shallow end is much too large

    2013 Noah RS

  16. #16
    Peloton Dog patentcad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by banerjek View Post
    I will grant that many new Windows machines never run well
    There you go.

    Apple's success is not really so complicated after all Fredly.

  17. #17
    Bike Junkie aadhils's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by banerjek View Post
    Explain exactly what is so different. You click on the icon you want, the program pops up, and you can control what happens on the screen using your mouse, keyboard, or touch screen.
    Actually when I click on a windows program; it goes through a series of steps. First it has to think "did that guy just click the icon?", then once it finally figures out that I did click the icon it start opening it .... one...frame...at...a...time! Finally when the whole program opens up, it flashes a bunch of windows where you have to click OK or cancel some help windows etc...

    I'm talking about a computer less than a year old here. These problems should NOT appear on a computer that new. It should take atleast 3 years. Another thing that bugs me is when I accidentally click F1. Help files take AGES to come up and I'm stuck till it finally appears so I can close it again.

    Quote Originally Posted by banerjek View Post
    As for your scanner problems, Windows should not be held responsible if you buy cheap crappy third party hardware that comes with poorly written drivers. There are plenty of products that work fine. People have fewer problems with Apple because you do not have the option of trying to use all this much cheaper 3rd party stuff. But this is not inherent to the OS.
    I'm talking about a $500 Xerox scanner in my Boss's office at work.

    Quote Originally Posted by banerjek View Post
    Consider the Flash brouhaha with iPad. Apple doesn't want Flash on the iPad because they say it will make it not run as well and they'll get blamed. Apple is right about that. So they solve the problem by not letting consumers make that choice. But again, this increase in stability has been achieved through policy and not through technical superiority.
    Well it IS Apple's products. They're the creator and they create their designs according to how they see fit. Ever seen a high end artist draw a paining according to how the customer wanted it? Even high end bicycle custom frame builders do not build frames according to how the customer wants it done. They have a formula that works and if they deviated from it; their reputation suffers.

  18. #18
    Immoderator KrisPistofferson's Avatar
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    If you knew a guy who took every single McDonald's ad campaign and then had t-shirts and bumper stickers printed of the slogans, like "I'm Loving It!" and "You Deserve a Break Today." If this person took every possible moment to inform you of the day-to-day performance of McDonald's stock prices, and was completely incapable of seeing a Burger King wrapper without having a fit, that would be a really, really, really annoying human being.


    But for whatever reason Apple fanboys find this to be acceptable behavior.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bikeforums
    Your rights end where another poster's feelings begin.

  19. #19
    Portland Fred banerjek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aadhils View Post
    Actually when I click on a windows program; it goes through a series of steps. First it has to think "did that guy just click the icon?", then once it finally figures out that I did click the icon it start opening it .... one...frame...at...a...time! Finally when the whole program opens up, it flashes a bunch of windows where you have to click OK or cancel some help windows etc...
    There is something wrong with your computer. Perhaps it has garbage on it. Maybe the antivirus is screwing it up. If it's a work machine, desktop management software that your IT dept is using could be causing problems.

    I use an 8 year old machine at home and have none of those problems. I often go months without shutting it down or rebooting. I had my previous machine for 8 years too. The newest machine anyone in our office has is 3 years old and many are older. We do not experience these problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by aadhils View Post
    I'm talking about a $500 Xerox scanner in my Boss's office at work.
    It's very possible that the driver Xerox supplied is garbage. It is also possible that whoever set up your scanner did something screwy or that hyperactive system management software on your computer is messing things up.

    Quote Originally Posted by aadhils View Post
    Well it IS Apple's products. They're the creator and they create their designs according to how they see fit. Ever seen a high end artist draw a paining according to how the customer wanted it? Even high end bicycle custom frame builders do not build frames according to how the customer wants it done. They have a formula that works and if they deviated from it; their reputation suffers.
    This may work for most home use, but it is not a realistic philosophy for most business environments. The need for highly specialized hardware and software is common. Heck, plenty of places develop their own tools.

    As far as building bikes go, there's little point in getting a "custom" bike if all you're getting is something that's made from a less common cookie cutter. Meet my commuter:



    It looks like a regular road bike, but it isn't. Aside from extra bottle bosses under the DT, routing for lighting and computer wiring along the fork and frame, and braze ons to take the rack I had built for it (below)


    rear stays have been extended 20mm so I won't kick the panniers I mount when I'm commuting. The builder used info I provided to select tubing that would provide the sort of ride I was looking for. Naturally, size was tweaked so it fits perfectly (he put a couple spacers in the steerer tube just in case, but after 6 months I had it cut).

    In any case, defining the problem away by not letting things interact is not a sign of a superior system. Rather, it is a sign of a philosophical choice to limit options to reduce the number of things that can happen.

  20. #20
    The Site Administrator: Currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes,please contact my assistnt admins for forum issues Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
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    Microsofts margins will be much higher, since their product is an intangible. They don't manufacture hardware, they write code. Apple makes hardware, so has far higher overhead. Given the point spread between the two, and look at their nut they have to carry to achieve that market placement, MS is in a much healthier position, even with the lower gross.

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthonyG View Post
    Hey I'm a fan of Apple computers and I'm working with a power mac but I'm not sure that Apple having a bigger market capitalization than Microsoft is a good thing. Seriously if your only supplying a much smaller % of the market but your company is worth slightly more than your competitor on the stock market who is still supplying the lion's share of the market then where is the value for the stock holder?

    I don't get it. Does anyone who understands the stock market well want to explain it.

    Anthony
    on light duty due to illness; please contact my assistants for forum issues. They are Siu Blue Wind, or CbadRider or the other 3 star folk. I am currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes. I am making good progress, happily.


    . “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche

    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant

  21. #21
    Bike Junkie aadhils's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Stormcrowe View Post
    Microsofts margins will be much higher, since their product is an intangible. They don't manufacture hardware, they write code. Apple makes hardware, so has far higher overhead. Given the point spread between the two, and look at their nut they have to carry to achieve that market placement, MS is in a much healthier position, even with the lower gross.
    You forget Microsoft's X Box line as well as the Zune etc...

    Also given Microsofts latest tendency to try to catchup with Apple in it's products line I think Microsoft is losing focus on it's main point of success which isn't very healthy.

  22. #22
    Portland Fred banerjek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aadhils View Post
    You forget Microsoft's X Box line as well as the Zune etc...
    M$ is a software company. Apple is a hardware company. Neither has done impressively outside a few core products.

  23. #23
    Bike Junkie aadhils's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by banerjek View Post
    M$ is a software company. Apple is a hardware company. Neither has done impressively outside a few core products.
    Which happens to be a very profitable practice. Microsoft is losing it's eye on the ball though as are a lot of other competitors of Apple.

  24. #24
    Peloton Dog patentcad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrisPistofferson View Post
    If you knew a guy who took every single McDonald's ad campaign and then had t-shirts and bumper stickers printed of the slogans, like "I'm Loving It!" and "You Deserve a Break Today." If this person took every possible moment to inform you of the day-to-day performance of McDonald's stock prices, and was completely incapable of seeing a Burger King wrapper without having a fit, that would be a really, really, really annoying human being.


    But for whatever reason Apple fanboys find this to be acceptable behavior.
    You're really annoying, and nobody's sure you're even a human being.

  25. #25
    Señor Member USAZorro's Avatar
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    Time to sell pcad. The bubble could burst any day now.

    Not joking.
    The search for inner peace continues...

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