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Old 09-21-04, 02:39 PM   #1
timmhaan
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my female friend got attacked...need some advice

this really has nothing to do with cycling, but i'd still like to get some opinions. a female friend of mine was attacked while going to work this week. pretty bad stuff, she will be in the hospital for a bit because of it.

i want to get her and my gf something to protect themselves with, but i don't know what. does anyone here carry mace, or anything?

i think having mace is a good idea, but i think it may backfire sometimes. for example, if you are fumbling around in your bag trying to get the mace, you'll undoubtedly lower your guard. any other self defense products out there? i'm kinda clueless, since i've never had a need for them myself. any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 09-21-04, 02:44 PM   #2
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How about some lessons for self-defense classes designed for women (confidence boosters)?
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Old 09-21-04, 02:47 PM   #3
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I used to teach personal safety skills and self-defense classes while living in Chicago. Rule One with pepper spray is don't rely on it unless it's in your hand. I taught my students to walk with it in their hand, ready to fire, as they walked. I'm not saying tauntingly poised, with arm upraised and threatening at every passerby, simply in the hand with the thumb on or near the button.

If she lives in the city let me know, I can hook you up with some very, very knowledgeable, friendly, and expert instructors (females).

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Old 09-21-04, 02:48 PM   #4
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Yowza! That's terrible. Was this a random attack, or what? Where did it happen? For what it's worth, mace is officially forbidden in NYC, and you can apparently be charged with a crime for using it, even in self-defense - though it's obviously preferable to survive an attack and go to court than not to survive at all. A better idea altogether would be to get them enrolled in some form of self-defense class - they're offered at low cost at a lot of gyms and YMCAs among other places...

I hope your friend recovers quickly!

-chris
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Old 09-21-04, 02:48 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by MsMittens
How about some lessons for self-defense classes designed for women (confidence boosters)?
oh yes, forgot to add that. she is already planning on signing up for such a class. do you think that would be enough?
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Old 09-21-04, 02:50 PM   #6
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Personally, as a woman, I'd say yes. Reason being is that once you give someone their confidence back they can do "anything" so to speak. They empower themselves to survive and go beyond. It's not easy but I think it helps.
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Old 09-21-04, 02:51 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by brokenrobot
Yowza! That's terrible. Was this a random attack, or what? Where did it happen? For what it's worth, mace is officially forbidden in NYC, and you can apparently be charged with a crime for using it, even in self-defense - though it's obviously preferable to survive an attack and go to court than not to survive at all. A better idea altogether would be to get them enrolled in some form of self-defense class - they're offered at low cost at a lot of gyms and YMCAs among other places...

I hope your friend recovers quickly!

-chris
thanks chris. it was random. a guy grabbed her and pulled her into a car, where they fought for sometime. he got away with her purse and she now has a broken jaw. it happened in midtown manhattan. i didn't know mace was forbidden in NYC...that's good to know. I should strach that off my list then.
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Old 09-21-04, 02:52 PM   #8
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Most personal defense weapons are illegal in NYC, such as mace, stun guns, lightning guns, cobra sticks, brass knuckles, side arms, etc.
How was she attacked? Is there a particular type of attack that you would like her to be extra cautious against?
Self defense class works but isn't always fool proof. Maybe a couple of offensive classes as well. To block a hit is one thing, it's another to strike back hard enough to enable you that split second to get away. And I know this sounds like I'm generalizing but wearing high heels or some type of footwear that won't enable you to get away quickly isn't a bright idea.
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Old 09-21-04, 02:53 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bunabayashi
I used to teach personal safety skills and self-defense classes while living in Chicago. Rule One with pepper spray is don't rely on it unless it's in your hand. I taught my students to walk with it in their hand, ready to fire, as they walked. I'm not saying tauntingly poised, with arm upraised and threatening at every passerby, simply in the hand with the thumb on or near the button.

If she lives in the city let me know, I can hook you up with some very, very knowledgeable, friendly, and expert instructors (females).

Dave
dave - if you could PM me some names that would be great. I'd love to pass them on. She does live in the city.
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Old 09-21-04, 03:02 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slvoid
Most personal defense weapons are illegal in NYC, such as mace, stun guns, lightning guns, cobra sticks, brass knuckles, side arms, etc.
How was she attacked? Is there a particular type of attack that you would like her to be extra cautious against?
Self defense class works but isn't always fool proof. Maybe a couple of offensive classes as well. To block a hit is one thing, it's another to strike back hard enough to enable you that split second to get away. And I know this sounds like I'm generalizing but wearing high heels or some type of footwear that won't enable you to get away quickly isn't a bright idea.
points well taken. i'm not exactly sure how the logistics of the event went down, i don't really want to press her for details at this time. but from what i gather it was a complete surprise, i guess the guy quickly pulled her into the car as she was walking. she lost balance and couldn't do much. but she did fight back when she could and got out of there, which is great. sounds like the classes will be the best bet.
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Old 09-21-04, 03:07 PM   #11
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Tis' a shame she lives in the Peoples Republik of New York or I'd recommend a Kel-Tec 3AT, a small .380 caliber semi-automatic pistol that's easily concealable and weighs virtually nothing.

I'm sorry to hear that she was attacked and hospitialized. I hope she has a speedy and full recovery

It's one of those life changing events that speaks volumes for our Second Amendment Rights
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Old 09-21-04, 03:22 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stacey
Tis' a shame she lives in the Peoples Republik of New York or I'd recommend a Kel-Tec 3AT, a small .380 caliber semi-automatic pistol that's easily concealable and weighs virtually nothing.

I'm sorry to hear that she was attacked and hospitialized. I hope she has a speedy and full recovery

It's one of those life changing events that speaks volumes for our Second Amendment Rights
I'm not sure how useful that would be if a large man pulled her into a car and she were fumbling to get the thing out of her ankle, side, shoulder, waist, bra, etc.
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Old 09-21-04, 06:23 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by slvoid
I'm not sure how useful that would be if a large man pulled her into a car and she were fumbling to get the thing out of her ankle, side, shoulder, waist, bra, etc.

Would for the chance to find out.
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Old 09-21-04, 06:30 PM   #14
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Mace is illegal, but nothing says she can't use pepper spray. I get the same bottle from Walgreens or Osco- they all come with a round thingie so you can slip it through your necklace. I have a long, loopy chain that I wear around my neck where I hang the tear gas from. In a pinch, I can rip that necklace off and spray. In the worst case scenario where I can't rip off the necklace, I will aim, hold my breath, and spray, then step back so that the fumes don't affect me. I've also practiced it, so I know it works.

I've also taken some self defense classes. They've also given valuable information on the vulnerable parts of an attacker, and how to do stuff like hit them just right in the neck so that they temporarily have the breathe knocked out of them, of course the groin trick always works, and attack at the eyes, hitting behind the knees to get them buckled onto the ground like a pinch... stuff like that. Plus scream. And then the smart stuff like never let them pull you into an alley, and NEVER into a car or vehicle. It helps to be proactive rather than reactive when it comes to learning this stuff. Thank goodness I haven't been in a situation where I've had to fight for my life, but if need be, I think I will be ready. Plus, I can pretty much outrun attackers- I'm physically active, and I have to assume most thugs don't work out like we do.

I hope your friend is ok. A self defense class would be the first thing I would suggest, but that Israeli self defense class is the best. It's lethal. What, it's Mav Karev or something like that? That's the stuff they use in their army, and I would highly suggest it. Just not at some silly gym where you do it to music or something. Find a self defense studio.

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Old 09-21-04, 06:43 PM   #15
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Probably the best thing they can do is raise their awareness to the dangers around them and act to minimize putting themselves in a situation where they may be attacked. An unarmed female is very vulnerable and even with elite training is unlikely to stop a determined attacker that will likely outweigh her by 50% or more.

It's truly unfortunate that our legal system doesn't do a better job of keeping us safer from criminals.
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Old 09-21-04, 06:50 PM   #16
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If packing heat wasn't illegal I'd suggest that. But yeah definately self defense classes.
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Old 09-21-04, 07:23 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stacey
It's one of those life changing events that speaks volumes for our Second Amendment Rights
Wait - remind me again how joining a well-regulated militia would have helped her in this situation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by koffee brown
Mace is illegal, but nothing says she can't use pepper spray.
...
A self defense class would be the first thing I would suggest, but that Israeli self defense class is the best. It's lethal. What, it's Mav Karev or something like that? That's the stuff they use in their army, and I would highly suggest it.

Koffee
Actually, pepper spray is illegal in NYC, too. I've never understood why, and I'm known to carry my can of Halt! now and again anyway. Also, the Israeli martial art is called Krav Maga - it's taught at a lot of places in NYC... I've even occasionally come across ads for self-defense places teaching it in the Voice.

-chris

Last edited by brokenrobot; 09-21-04 at 07:31 PM.
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Old 09-21-04, 07:36 PM   #18
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a sniper would have been wating on the roof to protect one of their own proud members!
And what if said sniper were to go on a crazy rampage?
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Old 09-21-04, 07:59 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by brokenrobot
Wait - remind me again how joining a well-regulated militia would have helped her in this situation?

-chris

No, you wait. Let's look at the whole thing

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

First the definition of militia;

mi·li·tia (plural mi·li·tias)
noun
1. soldiers who are also civilians: an army of soldiers who are civilians but take military training and can serve full-time during emergencies

2. reserve military force: a reserve army that is not part of the regular armed forces but that can be called up in an emergency

3. unauthorized quasi-military group: an unauthorized group of people who arm themselves and conduct quasi-military training In other words citizens who engage in military like training ie, Target shooting and/or personal protection


Second, what part of "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." don't you understand.

Ergo, were she or any other duly authorized person in the People's Republik of New York in posession of a firearm then the people (she) would have been provided the security necessary in a FREE state.
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Old 09-21-04, 09:45 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stacey
Second, what part of "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." don't you understand.

Ergo, were she or any other duly authorized person in the People's Republik of New York in posession of a firearm then the people (she) would have been provided the security necessary in a FREE state.
So let's all go interpret stuff written hundreds of years ago literally.

I love the idea of having every angry office worker/cab driver/homeless hobo/pedesterian/high school student/postal worker/rent a cop/janitor in new york city who can't control their anger in the heat of the moment having a hand gun. Such a good idea.
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Old 09-21-04, 09:59 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by slvoid
So let's all go interpret stuff written hundreds of years ago literally.

I love the idea of having every angry office worker/cab driver/homeless hobo/pedesterian/high school student/postal worker/rent a cop/janitor in new york city who can't control their anger in the heat of the moment having a hand gun. Such a good idea.
1. Its simple eugenics my friend, eventually those having anger control issues would be totally removed from the gene pool by well armed and ever so polite CCW permit holders. They wouldn't want to do it. They would feel they owed it to them.

2. Airplane hijackings would be a thing of the past with a fully armed populace.

3. One cannot use the modern definition of militia to describe the Second Ammendment. It meant that the people should be armed.

4. If a community tells you that you are not allowed to protect yourself you need to consider why you would want to live there in the first place. So, if you want to buy that poor woman something that will protect her from that kind of random violence get her a ticket to Lindsbourg, Kansas.

5. I always wonder how these discussions go from nice threads to rants for and against the 2nd Ammendment. Such is the way of bikeforums.net
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Old 09-21-04, 10:59 PM   #22
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I hope your friend recovers quickly and doesn't have major emotional scars from the attack.

My wife took this CDT course (http://www.cdt-training.com) which is basically learning the pain points that you use to shock the attacker and give yourself time to escape. One such point is under your upper arm where people generally have a very sensitive spot. If you pinch that area and hold onto it, it's so painful that the attacker can't do anything else but submit. My wife tried it on me and it's works, I also had bruises from just a pinch. There are other such areas too, in case the attacker is wearing a heavy jacket or something. Check it out.
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Old 09-21-04, 11:51 PM   #23
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Those are the best ones, Blast. The ones that talk about pain points and how to escape. I learned a move where if a man grabs you by the forearms, you can twist out of it anyway and still escape. That was one of the best things I could learn.

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Old 09-22-04, 11:42 AM   #24
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I do karate and really is a confidence builder. You should have them scout some schools in the area. I've never been attacked, but my sensei has an anecdotes about a woman that he just taught one self-defense class to. Some strange guy started to follow her into her building and she turned around, shouted, got into a pretend karate stance, and that scared him off. But karate's not only about defense, about being more aware.
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Old 09-22-04, 11:52 AM   #25
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Buy them the book "The Gift Of Fear". Theres some great info in there on protecting yourself and trusting your instincts.
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