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  1. #1
    Senior Member Red Baron's Avatar
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    OK wrong post- but its still 2 wheels

    Did you all hear on the news yesterday, new 'speeding ticket' record. 205 MPH on a MOTORCYCLE. Interstate, speedlimit 65, also arrested for no motorcycle license. 140 mph OVER LIMIT! WoW!! Wisconsion or Minn wasn't it?
    **Fate is a fickle thing, and in the end the true measure of a person is not fate itself, but how they master it**

  2. #2
    BikeForums Founder Joe Gardner's Avatar
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    Senior Member madhouse's Avatar
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    Minnesota. Son of a Deputy w/o a licence!!!

  4. #4
    BikeForums Founder Joe Gardner's Avatar
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  5. #5
    Vermonticus Outdoorsus CommuterKat's Avatar
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    Good God, how much does something like that cost???
    "Methinks my own soul is a bright invisible green" H. Thoreau

  6. #6
    Senior Member madhouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommuterKat
    Good God, how much does something like that cost???
    Less than some of the 2 piston ½ hp models that are discussed on this forum!

  7. #7
    無くなった HereNT's Avatar
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    Yeah, that was on the local news here - funny shiete! The guy that actualy clocked him was in an airplane, and the motorcyclist was going faster than the plane!

    Damn fool kids.

  8. #8
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommuterKat
    Good God, how much does something like that cost???
    I'm not going to say "didn't happen" or that the cop had a fat thumb on the stopwatch, but I will say let's put that bike on a dyno and run the numbers on the final drive to see how many revs it would need to pull to hit 205 mph.

    My "best guess" as to what really happened is -- assuming it is a nearly stock RC51 -- the cops didn't get the exact speed and/or took the kid's word on it noting that if you change out the front or rear sprocket on a motorcycle to make it quicker off the line or out of the turns you'll get wildly inaccurate speedometer readings as the speedo pick-up is driven off the final drive shaft on the transmission and not the front or rear wheel. Of course, the news travels faster than factual follow-up so......

    To your question, to get the 133 bhp, $11,599 stock street bike into a configuration that could achieve that kind of top end speed, the folks in the know who work for Honda suggest it would take at least $10,000 in aftermarket modifications. The only "stock" RC51 that COULD ACTUALLY ACHIEVE 205 mph is a 180bhp factory race bike at $107,000 and there aren't too many of those in North America.

    Now, mind you, the stock RC51s can achieve speeds in the 170mph range under ideal conditions and with a skilled (or damn lucky) rider aboard, so they are fast. But, it's power to weight and aerodynamics that push you higher and even my CRB1100 w/150 bhp wouldn't push beyond 180 mph in stock trim. There are supercharger and nitrous oxide kits that will get highly modified Suzuki GSX1300R Hayabusas and liter bikes up to 200 mph, but it's a elite club of motorcyclists that can do it and there's more to it than horsepower, i.e., suspension and aero mods are also required, not to mention the skills necessary to manage the bike.

    Regardless, even if they clocked him at 170 mph it makes for a pretty wild story as those kinds of speeds on public roads -- while possible -- are pretty insane; just too many things to go wrong and no place to go when it does. I've been as fast as 163 mph before under controlled conditions and up to 138 mph under uncontrolled conditions; again, even 138 on the street IS insane.

    All that said, we'll probably see the kid and his deputy sheriff data and/or the cops who clocked the speed and wrote the ticket on the talk show circuit before too long... not that that would have been a motivation behind trumping up a story like this. And, perhaps -- but I hope not -- well see a string of stories about dumb motorcyclists killing themselves while trying to repeat or disprove reported speed.

    Call me just a little cynical. But, hey, if an amatuer cyclist can match Sean Yates TdF top speed of 74 mph and if a weight lifter who has recently taken up cycling can best guys like Petacchi, Northstein, and Hushovd and crank-out 2,500 watts and 160 revs a minute to push their bikes along at 50 - 60 mph, then I guess a stock RC51 with a dumb kid in Minnesota can do 205 mph.

    "Truth is what stands the test of experience."
    Albert Einstein, Out of My Later Years, 1950.
    Last edited by livngood; 09-24-04 at 09:38 PM.

  9. #9
    Senior Member DieselDan's Avatar
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    205 in a 65 and he just got a ticket? Here, 70 in a 55 gets you a reckless driving arrest!
    Bikes use brakes to stop.

    If your bike has breaks, don't ride it.

  10. #10
    Vermonticus Outdoorsus CommuterKat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by livngood

    To your question, to get the 133 bhp, $11,599 stock street bike into a configuration that could achieve that kind of top end speed, the folks in the know who work for Honda suggest it would take at least $10,000 in aftermarket modifications. The only "stock" RC51 that COULD ACTUALLY ACHIEVE 205 mph is a 180bhp factory race bike at $107,000 and there aren't too many of those in North America.
    No, no, I meant how much does a ticket like that cost?
    "Methinks my own soul is a bright invisible green" H. Thoreau

  11. #11
    Every lane is a bike lane Chris L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DieselDan
    205 in a 65 and he just got a ticket?
    It should have been a motorcycle confiscation.
    "I am never going to flirt with idleness again" - Roy Keane
    "We invite everyone to question the entire culture we take for granted." - Manic Street Preachers.
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  12. #12
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommuterKat
    No, no, I meant how much does a ticket like that cost?
    If you look at the image of the ticket the officer wrote-in $215 next to the speeding violation and $115 next to the "no motorcycle endorsement". http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0922042speed1.html


    Standard fines per MN Statutes:

    MN Stats. 169.13(1) Reckless Driving - Mandatory Court Appearance with maximum $1,000 fine and/or 90 days in jail.

    MN Stats. 169.14(2)(a) Speed faster than posted - petty misdemeanor and $130.00 fine

    MN Stats. 169.14(4) Speed excessive per state law - petty misdemeanor and $130.00 fine
    Last edited by livngood; 09-24-04 at 09:21 AM.

  13. #13
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DieselDan
    205 in a 65 and he just got a ticket? Here, 70 in a 55 gets you a reckless driving arrest!

    Minnesota trooper writes 205 mph speeding ticket
    WABASHA, Minn. (AP) — bla, bla, bla

    The State Patrol officer arrested the faster rider, 20-year-old Stillwater resident Samuel Armstrong Tilley, for reckless driving, driving without a motorcycle license — and driving 140 miles per hour over the posted speed limit of 65 mph.

  14. #14
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    I've heard that if you sit up while going that fast, its pretty easy to get blown right off the bike.

    Still, its pretty wild that the guy was able to handle the bike going that fast. I've noticed that above 80 in my car, things start to happen REALLY fast.

    About the ticket, in maryland, a friend of mine decided to see how fast his car could go. He topped out at 105 (in a 55) at the bottom of this hill, where there was a cop sitting. he got a $520 fine, 5 points on his liscense, and 16 hours of community service.

  15. #15
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phatman
    I've heard that if you sit up while going that fast, its pretty easy to get blown right off the bike. Still, its pretty wild that the guy was able to handle the bike going that fast.

    Maybe if you folks read it in the newspaper you'll get the point...

    Some doubt motorcycle capable of 205 mph
    Associated Press
    September 24, 2004

    http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/4998366.html

    Of course, it's not like this story will get as much air-time and spread like wildfire as did the original report.

    This next article really gets to the heart of the matter... and don't think the media is only wrong and irresponsible when it comes to reporting stories like this.

    http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2004/Sep/040923z.htm

    I'm guessing 160's - 170's was more probable IF the kid had the cajones, a lot of smooth freeway, and ideal conditions. Yeah, that's pretty damn fast, but you get there in a hurry and you don't stay there long because you get beat to hell by the wind buffetting, road vibration, and your chest being pounded against the gas tank.

    Critical reading and fact-checking is so underrated.
    Last edited by livngood; 09-24-04 at 10:04 AM.

  16. #16
    eert a ekil yzarc SpiderMike's Avatar
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    I am wondering if they had watched any of these videos prior to going out for their ride. http://www.ghostridermovie.net/

    I find his "bmx" (see vehicles) to be funny

  17. #17
    Mmbeer Methos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by livngood
    Maybe if you folks read it in the newspaper you'll get the point...

    Some doubt motorcycle capable of 205 mph
    Associated Press
    September 24, 2004

    http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/4998366.html

    Of course, it's not like this story will get as much air-time and spread like wildfire as did the original report.

    This next article really gets to the heart of the matter... and don't think the media is only wrong and irresponsible when it comes to reporting stories like this.

    http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2004/Sep/040923z.htm

    I'm guessing 160's - 170's was more probable IF the kid had the cajones, a lot of smooth freeway, and ideal conditions. Yeah, that's pretty damn fast, but you get there in a hurry and you don't stay there long because you get beat to hell by the wind buffetting, road vibration, and your chest being pounded against the gas tank.

    Critical reading and fact-checking is so underrated.
    I read your two posts and completely agree. There is no way he hit 205. I ride a '02 Yamaha R1. My best is 183 on a straight, deserted country road, full leathers. Pucker value is very high and I don't do it often. All motorcycles at those speeds on a stock speedo register way off. I was probably in the 165 or so range. There is no way that kid hit 205 on a stock bike, even modded, he would need a lot of money. Certain mods can only get you so fast and then wind resistance starts to play and you need a lot more power. My friends race Hayabusas down on the salt flats. They are running bikes in the 600hp and up range with turbos and getting a bike to inch a little bit more mph takes a lot more power. All this kid did was cause a media frenzy and put a bad name for sportbikes and motorcycle enthusiasts.

    I thought he was riding a new 1000RR?
    Some Truths Feel Uncomfortable.

  18. #18
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Methos
    I thought he was riding a new 1000RR?
    Wouldn't made all that much difference.... RC51 is the latest interpretation of the Honda 1000 motorcycle. Both bikes are in the 900 - 1000cc range.

    For what it's worth, here's what Motorcycle News (a reputable source) has been able to achieve and document as the top dogs in street model stock trim for top-end speed:

    TEN BEST TOP SPEEDS
    1) 1999 Suzuki Hayabusa = 188 mph
    2) 2002 Kawasaki ZX-12R = 186
    3) 1999 Honda CBR1100XX = 174
    4) 2002 Suzuki GSX-R1000 = 173
    5) 2002 Yamaha R1 = 173
    6) 2003 Ducati 999 = 172
    7) 2002 MV Agusta F4 Senna = 171
    8) 1997 Kawasaki ZX-11 = 169
    9) 2002 Aprilia RSV Mille R = 169
    10) 98 Kawasaki ZX-9R / 03 Honda RC51 = 168

    http://www.mcnews.com/mcnews/depts/D...IndexPart2.pdf

    For a sanity check, if you check the specs (which vary from source-to-source and year-to-year), rated hp and final drives for the various models that we're talking about or that add context are:

    ZX-12R @ 159hp / 194 mph,
    Hayabusa @ 158hp / 191 mph
    Yamaha R1 @ 150hp / 178 mph
    Honda CBR1000RR @ 148hp / 178 mph
    Honda RC51 @ 133hp / 173 mph
    (Note: '02 RC51 @ 122hp / 163 mph)

    Again, at these speeds it takes a ton of HP to get a few more mph and there are so many other issues at these speeds that just make this whole story laughable. Of course, only motorcycle enthusiasts would know the details... it's not like any of the newspaper agencies that ran the story could have called up a dealer to ask if it was possible or found test data on the Web.

  19. #19
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    Predicated on a separate thread that I started, I have across two more bits of information that help to shed more light on this story.

    The first is is a far better report out of Minnesota that does a good job of reporting facts, circumstances, and other relevant data that was not included in the Associated Press story. Rather than cross-posting, I'll just provide you a link to the other post:

    Do You Believe Everything You Read?

    This second item is what I'll call "interesting". The posting quoted and other posts linked to are purportedly written by Samual Tilley, the 20 year old who was issued the 205mph citation. As I note in my post, I have no factual data to suggest this is authentic, but it can't be any less useful than what was reported via AP.

    Do You Believe Everything You Read?
    Last edited by livngood; 09-27-04 at 12:00 PM.

  20. #20
    Every lane is a bike lane Chris L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by livngood
    I'm guessing 160's - 170's was more probable IF the kid had the cajones, a lot of smooth freeway, and ideal conditions. Yeah, that's pretty damn fast, but you get there in a hurry and you don't stay there long because you get beat to hell by the wind buffetting, road vibration, and your chest being pounded against the gas tank.

    Critical reading and fact-checking is so underrated.
    Either way, the guy's still an idiot.
    "I am never going to flirt with idleness again" - Roy Keane
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  21. #21
    Beausage is Beautiful Fugazi Dave's Avatar
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    In Ohio anything 100mph or more automatically gets you attempted vehicular homicide. He'd just plain be in jail had he pulled that crap in the Buckeye State...

  22. #22
    2-Cyl, 1/2 HP @ 90 RPM slvoid's Avatar
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    I think the new yamaha R1 has around 175hp.
    My friend had a 2001 R1 that he routinely took up to 180 or so.
    I also had a video (you can probably search on kazaa for it) of some guy on a hayabusa who took off from 0, wheelied to 140 mph and kept going until he maxed out his speedometer and I watched him burn clutch for a couple of seconds after that. The max on the speedo was 380km/hr. Or around 235mph.
    For the price of a new campy record bike, you can probably get a used motorbike with enough modified parts to hit 200.

  23. #23
    2-Cyl, 1/2 HP @ 90 RPM slvoid's Avatar
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    I wonder how fast you can go in one of these things:

  24. #24
    2-Cyl, 1/2 HP @ 90 RPM slvoid's Avatar
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    Here's someone riding it, no helmet, no protective equipment.

  25. #25
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    The latest from Minnesota:

    Quote Originally Posted by StarTribune.com (subscription)

    Ticket revs up 205-mph questions
    Terry Collins and Curt Brown,* Star Tribune
    September 26, 2004 FASTBIKES0926

    *
    *
    To some, he's a folk hero. Others are calling him an idiot.
    Everybody, it seems, is talking about Samuel Armstrong Tilley, the 20-year-old Stillwater motorcyclist ticketed last weekend for going 205 miles per hour on Hwy. 61 near Wabasha.

    Consider it the ticket heard 'round the world.

    In the week since a State Patrol pilot's stopwatch clocked Tilley's Honda RC51 at historic speeds, every gear-head chatroom, mechanic's garage and biker bar from Sturgis, S.D., to Los Angeles has been buzzing about Tilley's alleged exploits.
    A photo of the ticket has been posted on the Web (http: //www.thesmokinggun.com/ archive/0922042speed1.html).

    Tilley was even the talk of Two-Wheel Tuesday, a national cable TV fix for motorcycle aficionados on the Speed Channel.

    All of which prompts a couple questions: How could a so-called crotch rocket, with limited gear ratios, go that fast amid thousands of riders on the annual Flood Run along the bluffs north of Winona?

    And why has Tilley suddenly become an urban legend?

    "Certainly anyone who flouts the law to that extent is seen by some as a latter-day Robin Hood, flying in the face of authority and doing stuff we all want to do but common sense stops us from," said David Edwards, editor-in-chief of Cycle World, a popular magazine out of Newport Beach, Calif.

    "Basically, it's like stepping out of a small airplane, if indeed he was going 200 mph," said Edwards, who like many experts, doubts Tilley topped 200 mph.
    "It's extremely unlikely that that bike was going that fast," he said. "More likely, the cop with the stopwatch had an itchy trigger finger."

    State Patrol pilot Al Loney, a 27-year veteran, and his superiors stand by their stopwatch, which clocked Tilley going a quarter-mile in 4.39 seconds.

    Among the doubters is former St. Paul Police Chief Bill Finney, who was riding a Boss Hoss bike with a V-8 car engine during the Flood Run.

    "The most common viewpoint is: That Honda could not have done 205 miles per hour," Finney said. "There are Suzukis that can go 180 miles per hour out of the crate, and racing Hondas may get there after spending a million bucks on them. That 200 miles per hour is a tough nut to crack, but those crotch-rocket guys are a whole other breed."

    Who is Tilley?

    The only one who knows for sure how fast Tilley was going isn't talking. Tilley did not return numerous reporters' calls for his side of the story.

    He was born in New Ulm and graduated last spring from Stillwater High School.

    "He was a cocky kid, kind of arrogant," said Laurie Hansen, his English teacher.
    Records show that his father, Dean Tilley, is a patrol sergeant for the Washington County Sheriff's Office, and his stepmother, who co-owns the motorcycle, is a nurse.
    Tilley's mother, Mary, died of a sudden illness a decade ago when Tilley was 10. There's a toddler playground in Oakdale named after her; she helped transform an old dump into the park.

    Tilley purchased his 2002 Honda RC51 last summer from Tousley Motorsports in White Bear Lake, where he once worked. Tousley President Larry Koch insists Tilley is a nice guy.

    "But I really want to ask him: 'What in the hell were you thinking?' " Koch said.

    Meeting the legend

    Devin Harrington, 32, of Minneapolis, was among the thousands of riders on the Flood Run along Hwy. 61 on Sept. 18. Stopping for gas near Wabasha, he remembers seeing a clean-cut kid wearing jeans and racing boots and sitting on a curb as riders sped past.

    Curious, Harrington asked him what happened. The rider said his bike was towed because he got a speeding ticket.

    In a "smart-alecky way," Harrington asked how fast was he going. Nonchalantly, Tilley told him, "Well, they gave me a ticket for 205."

    "Bull!" Harrington blurted out, only to have Tilley show him the ticket to prove it. Harrington had a buddy take a picture of the ticket with his cell phone for posterity.
    That ticket lists fines of $215 for going 140 mph over the limit, $115 for failing to have his motorcycle endorsement with him and a reckless driving charge. Tilley is scheduled to appear in Wabasha County Court on Oct. 25.

    Four days later, Harrington had forgotten the whole matter, when his dentist brought it up while checking his teeth. The kid on the sidewalk, he realized, had become a cause célèbre.

    "This is hilarious," said Harrington, who has been riding for 17 years. "Now, we'll have some idiot trying to top that mark, whether it is true or not. They will try killing themselves, for what? To see who's the fastest?"

    Reaction to Tilley's ticket has motorcycle enthusiasts across the country spinning their wheels. Not only is it the record speeding ticket in Minnesota, but it reportedly tops William Faenza's national record ticket for going 182 mph in a Lamborghini Diablo in Pennsylvania last spring. And Faenza's ride had four wheels.

    "He's upset the whole sport bike world," said Erie Presley, 43, of Salt Lake City. "Not so much that he broke the law, but he apparently broke several racing records, and we're wondering if he really did it."

    Glenn Conser, president of the Motorcycle Roadracing Association in Denver, has tracked all the chatter on Web sites.

    "It's been funny to read the different reactions that go from: 'Wow, how cool is that,' to 'What a moron!' " Conser said.

    Tim Carrithers, editor of Motorcyclist magazine in Los Angeles, said his phone rang nonstop as word of Tilley's speed spread nationwide.

    "The guy couldn't have gone that fast, no way," said Carrithers, adding that his staff members once clocked an RC51 at a high of 163 mph during a magazine review of the bike in 2000. "There's no street bike in stock that will approach that speed."

    Dean of speed

    No one in Minnesota knows more about speed than Marv Jorgenson, 63, owner of Chopper City in Fridley. He's been racing motorcycles and boats for 45 years and holds a world snowmobile record of 190 mph.

    Jorgenson was among the Flood Run riders. He even saw Loney's plane clocking the bikers and warned his fellow riders to watch out. With countless bikes going about 70 mph, Jorgenson wonders how someone going three times that fast wouldn't run over riders ahead.

    "It was like rush hour out there," he said. "I don't know how you can call a trooper a liar, but if the bike's not capable of going that fast ... ."

    Jorgenson said the bike's fuel-injection system would cut out unless expensive modifications were made. Nate Northrup, one of Tilley's coworkers at Tousley said he remembers Tilley adding on a set of slip-on exhaust mufflers.

    "They're supposed to add a little bit of horsepower, but I don't think they do anything but make a lot of noise," said Northrup.

    Edwards, the editor of Cycle World, said a turbo charger would need to be added to get Tilley's bike north of 165 mph.

    "There are lots of guys who have been spending a lot of money and a lot of years at the Bonneville Salt Flats in Utah trying to join the official 200 Club and most still haven't done it," Edwards said. "It's a pretty remarkable feat to go that fast on a motorcycle and I doubt that's what happened here."

    Edwards said he once rode a bike at 175 mph.

    "Between the wind tearing at you, the engine screaming and the leather flapping, it's not a fun place to be," he said.

    And Koch, Tilley's former boss, figures the butt-kicking that the 200-mph man probably received from his patrol-sergeant father wasn't much of a fun place to be either.
    "But when this is all over," Koch said, "he can get a jacket that reads: 'I'm the fastest man in Minnesota and I have a ticket to prove it, too.' "

    Librarian Linda Sack and staff writer Matt McKinney contributed to this report.
    The writers are at tcollins@startribune.com and curt.brown@startribune.com.

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