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  1. #1
    Look! My Spine! RubenX's Avatar
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    Any car audio freaks around here?

    If so, I have a few general questions...

    1) I have 2 x 5.25" 3-way in the front and 2 x 6" 3-way in the back but the thing is still kinda lacking some semi-decent boom boom. I've given a used amp, 2 channels, bridgeable. I just need the subs. But since I'm broke as always, would I be OK by just getting ONE sub and bridging it? Is it a heck of a difference from 2 subs (left and right) to just one bridged sub? I don't wanna make the neighborhood vibrate... just make my own jewels jump a little bit.

    2) What's the importance of the speakers positive and negative terminals? If I connect them backwards it sounds kinda the same to mah. Please enlighten me.

    3) The 4 speakers I have at the moment sound OK at low volume but at high volume the lows get really distorted and sounds like crap. If I add sub-woofer(s), should I get some other equipment to prevent the low frequencies from reaching the rest of the speakers? a crossover thingy, a sound processor or what?

    4) With the recent sound upgrades I can now easily tell when an MP3 is 128 bit or 256 bit. In before, they all sounded just as crappy (not an actual question, just wanna hear your comments on this).

    5) What should be the minimum diameter, even for a cheapo sub-woofer, to produce any semi-decent vibration in the jewels? 10 inches ok? 12?

    6) What's the importance of the sub-woofer enclosure? Why can't you just bolt the thing somewhere in the trunk? Is it just for the looks, or does it makes an actual difference in sound quality?

    thanks
    "Hoy es un dia normal, pero yo voy a hacerlo intenso" ~ Juanes

  2. #2
    Hey guyz? Guyz? Wait up!! Siu Blue Wind's Avatar
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    Minesbroken is the resident car audio expert. Perhaps if you PM a link to this thread he may come on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha
    We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.
    Quote Originally Posted by making View Post
    Please dont outsmart the censor. That is a very expensive censor and every time one of you guys outsmart it it makes someone at the home office feel bad. We dont wanna do that. So dont cleverly disguise bad words.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by RubenX View Post
    If so, I have a few general questions...
    I think you still have them if not
    Quote Originally Posted by RubenX View Post
    1) I have 2 x 5.25" 3-way in the front and 2 x 6" 3-way in the back but the thing is still kinda lacking some semi-decent boom boom. I've given a used amp, 2 channels, bridgeable. I just need the subs. But since I'm broke as always, would I be OK by just getting ONE sub and bridging it? Is it a heck of a difference from 2 subs (left and right) to just one bridged sub? I don't wanna make the neighborhood vibrate... just make my own jewels jump a little bit.
    That's because they have too much Wakka-Wakka.
    No comment.
    Quote Originally Posted by RubenX View Post
    2) What's the importance of the speakers positive and negative terminals? If I connect them backwards it sounds kinda the same to mah. Please enlighten me.
    http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=103793
    http://astro-canada.ca/_en/a2313.html
    Quote Originally Posted by RubenX View Post
    3) The 4 speakers I have at the moment sound OK at low volume but at high volume the lows get really distorted and sounds like crap. If I add sub-woofer(s), should I get some other equipment to prevent the low frequencies from reaching the rest of the speakers? a crossover thingy, a sound processor or what?

    4) With the recent sound upgrades I can now easily tell when an MP3 is 128 bit or 256 bit. In before, they all sounded just as crappy (not an actual question, just wanna hear your comments on this).
    I have a demo I like showing people at home. First I play a 64bit mp3, then a 128, a 256, and a 320kbps samples of the same song. Each is clearly audible as better than the previous one. That is followed by a CD (in my laptop), then the same CD in my crappy old CD player which actually sounds better. Note, this works a lot better if you use a song with a lot of high frequency stuff. This reason alone is why I dislike iTunes music/headphones. The tiny little headphones are crappy enough people can't tell that the sound quality on the music they are buying sucks until I plug it in to something else.
    Quote Originally Posted by RubenX View Post


    5) What should be the minimum diameter, even for a cheapo sub-woofer, to produce any semi-decent vibration in the jewels? 10 inches ok? 12?

    6) What's the importance of the sub-woofer enclosure? Why can't you just bolt the thing somewhere in the trunk? Is it just for the looks, or does it makes an actual difference in sound quality?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudspeaker_enclosure
    Quote Originally Posted by RubenX View Post

    thanks
    Welcome.

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    When you get done with it, swing by my place fro a 'third-person' opinion of its quality....

    ...I should have my flamethrower refilled by then.

    MEN let women vibrate their jewels. A boomer stereo won't make 'em drop any faster.

  5. #5
    Look! My Spine! RubenX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DX-MAN View Post
    When you get done with it, swing by my place fro a 'third-person' opinion of its quality....

    ...I should have my flamethrower refilled by then.

    MEN let women vibrate their jewels. A boomer stereo won't make 'em drop any faster.
    Boom hater
    "Hoy es un dia normal, pero yo voy a hacerlo intenso" ~ Juanes

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    Hey guyz? Guyz? Wait up!! Siu Blue Wind's Avatar
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    Ruben, please define jewels.
    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha
    We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.
    Quote Originally Posted by making View Post
    Please dont outsmart the censor. That is a very expensive censor and every time one of you guys outsmart it it makes someone at the home office feel bad. We dont wanna do that. So dont cleverly disguise bad words.

  7. #7
    Look! My Spine! RubenX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siu Blue Wind View Post
    Ruben, please define jewels.
    well this of course....

    "Hoy es un dia normal, pero yo voy a hacerlo intenso" ~ Juanes

  8. #8
    Senior Member toytech's Avatar
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    A single 10" sub is more than adequate. A good amp is more important, I would save up for a nice 5 channel amp like a used Soundstream etc with internal crossovers and any name brand 10" sub in a smallish box. you will be surprised at the difference. If you run your fronts and rears off the head unit and only use an amp for your sub it will be grossly unbalanced and all bass.
    "Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day."--Harry S. Truman

  9. #9
    Senior Member avmanansala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RubenX View Post
    If so, I have a few general questions...

    1) I have 2 x 5.25" 3-way in the front and 2 x 6" 3-way in the back but the thing is still kinda lacking some semi-decent boom boom. I've given a used amp, 2 channels, bridgeable. I just need the subs. But since I'm broke as always, would I be OK by just getting ONE sub and bridging it? Is it a heck of a difference from 2 subs (left and right) to just one bridged sub? I don't wanna make the neighborhood vibrate... just make my own jewels jump a little bit.

    Go with a 10-inch sealed box, run the amp bridged. It should be plenty.

    2) What's the importance of the speakers positive and negative terminals? If I connect them backwards it sounds kinda the same to mah. Please enlighten me.

    Polarity will determine the movement of the speakers, connected correctly, (the + is typically wide spade, - is typically the narrow spade; + can also be marked with a red dot or have + or - symbols) the speaker will move away from the magnet and recover before moving out again. If one speaker (or set) is reversed, the speakers will be out of phase and sound crappy. Just wire it correctly and all will be right with the world.

    3) The 4 speakers I have at the moment sound OK at low volume but at high volume the lows get really distorted and sounds like crap. If I add sub-woofer(s), should I get some other equipment to prevent the low frequencies from reaching the rest of the speakers? a crossover thingy, a sound processor or what?

    Get a 4 channel amp. More power. Just match it to your speakers.

    4) With the recent sound upgrades I can now easily tell when an MP3 is 128 bit or 256 bit. In before, they all sounded just as crappy (not an actual question, just wanna hear your comments on this).

    I can tell the difference between a CD and an MP3 in my car. With higher compression on my Ipod, I can tell that the lower end just isn't there vs. normal compression. CDs sound better, but I like carrying the whole library with me in the car. More bits, more information = better sound, generally speaking.

    5) What should be the minimum diameter, even for a cheapo sub-woofer, to produce any semi-decent vibration in the jewels? 10 inches ok? 12?

    10" in a sealed box is enough for me without being obnoxious.

    6) What's the importance of the sub-woofer enclosure? Why can't you just bolt the thing somewhere in the trunk? Is it just for the looks, or does it makes an actual difference in sound quality?

    Subwoofer boxes give you better sound quality. Sealed boxes are typically tighter, but require a bit more power. Vented/Ported boxes are typically tuned for a specific frequency and can use less power, but if not tuned properly can sound like muddy. Bandpass are hybrids and IIRC, one is ported and one is sealed - these need to be designed for the speakers being installed. There are free-air subs but I never liked them...don't know why, I just don't.

    thanks
    See my response in bold.
    "Study your math, kids. Key to the Universe." - Gabriel in The Prophecy

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    Quote Originally Posted by rubenx View Post
    boom hater
    a-a-a-a-a-a-n-n-n-n-n-n-d-d-d-d-d y-y-y-y-o-o-o-o-u-u-u-u-r-r-r-r-r p-p-p-p-o-o-o-o-i-i-i-i-n-n-n-n-t-t-t-t-t i-i-i-i-s-s-s-s.........................?-?

  11. #11
    Look! My Spine! RubenX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DX-MAN View Post
    a-a-a-a-a-a-n-n-n-n-n-n-d-d-d-d-d y-y-y-y-o-o-o-o-u-u-u-u-r-r-r-r-r p-p-p-p-o-o-o-o-i-i-i-i-n-n-n-n-t-t-t-t-t i-i-i-i-s-s-s-s.........................?-?
    LOL he replied trough a finely tune sub-wooooooooooooofeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrr.....
    "Hoy es un dia normal, pero yo voy a hacerlo intenso" ~ Juanes

  12. #12
    It is what it is... Minesbroken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RubenX View Post
    If so, I have a few general questions...

    1) I have 2 x 5.25" 3-way in the front and 2 x 6" 3-way in the back but the thing is still kinda lacking some semi-decent boom boom. I've given a used amp, 2 channels, bridgeable. I just need the subs. But since I'm broke as always, would I be OK by just getting ONE sub and bridging it? Is it a heck of a difference from 2 subs (left and right) to just one bridged sub? I don't wanna make the neighborhood vibrate... just make my own jewels jump a little bit.

    2) What's the importance of the speakers positive and negative terminals? If I connect them backwards it sounds kinda the same to mah. Please enlighten me.

    3) The 4 speakers I have at the moment sound OK at low volume but at high volume the lows get really distorted and sounds like crap. If I add sub-woofer(s), should I get some other equipment to prevent the low frequencies from reaching the rest of the speakers? a crossover thingy, a sound processor or what?

    4) With the recent sound upgrades I can now easily tell when an MP3 is 128 bit or 256 bit. In before, they all sounded just as crappy (not an actual question, just wanna hear your comments on this).

    5) What should be the minimum diameter, even for a cheapo sub-woofer, to produce any semi-decent vibration in the jewels? 10 inches ok? 12?

    6) What's the importance of the sub-woofer enclosure? Why can't you just bolt the thing somewhere in the trunk? Is it just for the looks, or does it makes an actual difference in sound quality?

    thanks
    #1 One sub is fine, a second sub would need a fifty percent increase in power and yield only a 3 decibel difference. You can use one and bridge the amp as long as the amp is bridgeable, you must also find out what Ohms load the amplifier makes power at. some are 2 ohm stable some 4. Some subwoofers are single voice coil or dual voice coil you tell me what amp you have and I will tell you what kind of sub you need.

    #2 The importance of speaker positive and negative is "in phase" and "out of phase" In phase speakers have better bass response and it is the correct way to connect them, out of phase there is less bass response and you may have more distortion.

    #3 The reason your speakers are distorting at high volume is because they are not made to handle the bass response that comes with "full range" The speakers need to be "crossed over" to eliminate the unwanted low frequencies that they don't handle well. The subwoofer will handle the low frequencies instead of the interior speakers but will not prevent them from receiving said frequencies. What kind of radio do you have?

    #4 Improving your setup always allows you to hear the difference between a quality recording and a crappy one...just wait till it works right

    #5 I have two 8 inch subs in a vented enclosure, it sounds similar to a couple of 10's or 12's in a prefab box. if you cant build your own box then I suggest a single 12 inch in a prefab box, a 10 will do but a 12 would be better all around and take more of a pounding.

    #6 all subwoofers are designed to work in an enclosure these days, the days of "fee air" are long since past. the enclosure makes a huge difference. for you I suggest a single 12 inch in a sealed enclosure. That will do you just fine.

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  13. #13
    It is what it is... Minesbroken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siu Blue Wind View Post
    Minesbroken is the resident car audio expert. Perhaps if you PM a link to this thread he may come on.

    you miss me, don't you?
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    I just put 2 old JBL floor stereo speakers in the back bed of my Silverado and crank up Mitch Ryder and the Detroit wheels.I'm stylin Rube!


    Devil in the blue dress,
    devil with the blue dress on.....
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  15. #15
    derailleurs are overrated bigbenaugust's Avatar
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    I used to give a crap about audio... then I realized that the headphones weren't broken all my life. The doctor told me I was nearly half-deaf due to a congenital defect in my ears. Now I set everything to mono and let it go.
    --Ben
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    It is what it is... Minesbroken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbenaugust View Post
    I used to give a crap about audio... then I realized that the headphones weren't broken all my life. The doctor told me I was nearly half-deaf due to a congenital defect in my ears. Now I set everything to mono and let it go.
    Makes the traffic more bearable
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  17. #17
    Look! My Spine! RubenX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minesbroken View Post
    ... What kind of radio do you have?...
    THX for tips man... I have a cheapo radio, "Dual" brand, from Autozone. It's 200watts (which is really enough for mah), 2 RCA outs on the back for subwoofer, and a wonderful usb port that can read any mp3-filled thumbdrive I've tried so far.

    I shall now learn about crossovers, fiberglassing and "the big 3"...
    "Hoy es un dia normal, pero yo voy a hacerlo intenso" ~ Juanes

  18. #18
    It is what it is... Minesbroken's Avatar
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    almost all head units claim to be 50 watts by 4 or 200 watts, this is Peak... RMS or continuous power is usually somewhere around 15 watts per channel. On a Dual it may be slightly lower like 12. If your connecting amplifiers the wattage of the on board amplifier is irrelevant, and it is the Line Voltage that matters, a good radio has at least a 4 volt pre amp output. a bad one may have between .5 and 1.5 volt preamp output. What's important is that your happy

    I just built my quadruple 8 inch vented enclosure for my 4 kicker comp vr 8 inch subs... pretty slammin.
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  19. #19
    It is what it is... Minesbroken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minesbroken View Post
    you miss me, don't you?
    guess not....lol
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  20. #20
    Look! My Spine! RubenX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minesbroken View Post

    I just built my quadruple 8 inch vented enclosure for my 4 kicker comp vr 8 inch subs... pretty slammin.
    Fiberglass? I'm practicing some fiber-glassing for another car project, not audio related. I'm confident that with a little practice, I can make an enclosure for the sub that could blend in nicely with everything else in the trunk. I'm thinking on something similar to this:



    Is time permits, I'll be installing some heavy gauge wires this weekend, all the way to the trunk. I still haven't had enough free time to read about crossovers tho... That's on my to do list somewhere.

    Any pics of your enclosure? This thread needs more pics.
    "Hoy es un dia normal, pero yo voy a hacerlo intenso" ~ Juanes

  21. #21
    Hey guyz? Guyz? Wait up!! Siu Blue Wind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minesbroken View Post
    guess not....lol
    You let my fish die.
    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha
    We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.
    Quote Originally Posted by making View Post
    Please dont outsmart the censor. That is a very expensive censor and every time one of you guys outsmart it it makes someone at the home office feel bad. We dont wanna do that. So dont cleverly disguise bad words.

  22. #22
    It is what it is... Minesbroken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siu Blue Wind View Post
    You let my fish die.
    you still mad about that?
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  23. #23
    It is what it is... Minesbroken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RubenX View Post
    Fiberglass? I'm practicing some fiber-glassing for another car project, not audio related. I'm confident that with a little practice, I can make an enclosure for the sub that could blend in nicely with everything else in the trunk. I'm thinking on something similar to this:



    Is time permits, I'll be installing some heavy gauge wires this weekend, all the way to the trunk. I still haven't had enough free time to read about crossovers tho... That's on my to do list somewhere.

    Any pics of your enclosure? This thread needs more pics.
    fiberglass is over rated, although it looks nice it's difficult to get the airspace right for the sub and the position of the sub in the trunk is very important also, the subs should face the back of the trunk to function properly.
    wood boxes always sound better than fiberglass ones.
    it depends on whether you want aesthetics or sound quality.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by RubenX View Post
    If so, I have a few general questions...

    1) I have 2 x 5.25" 3-way in the front and 2 x 6" 3-way in the back but the thing is still kinda lacking some semi-decent boom boom. I've given a used amp, 2 channels, bridgeable. I just need the subs. But since I'm broke as always, would I be OK by just getting ONE sub and bridging it? Is it a heck of a difference from 2 subs (left and right) to just one bridged sub? I don't wanna make the neighborhood vibrate... just make my own jewels jump a little bit.

    2) What's the importance of the speakers positive and negative terminals? If I connect them backwards it sounds kinda the same to mah. Please enlighten me.

    3) The 4 speakers I have at the moment sound OK at low volume but at high volume the lows get really distorted and sounds like crap. If I add sub-woofer(s), should I get some other equipment to prevent the low frequencies from reaching the rest of the speakers? a crossover thingy, a sound processor or what?

    4) With the recent sound upgrades I can now easily tell when an MP3 is 128 bit or 256 bit. In before, they all sounded just as crappy (not an actual question, just wanna hear your comments on this).

    5) What should be the minimum diameter, even for a cheapo sub-woofer, to produce any semi-decent vibration in the jewels? 10 inches ok? 12?

    6) What's the importance of the sub-woofer enclosure? Why can't you just bolt the thing somewhere in the trunk? Is it just for the looks, or does it makes an actual difference in sound quality?

    thanks
    most of these questions have been answered but there's still a little vagueness about the sub and size. I would ask first what kind of music do you listen to? Everyone has their preferences and heard "their buddy's" sub and think it's the best ever. As someone with a lot of experience and knowledge in the field I've heard a lot of subs and a lot of stuff customers say and think they know. Depending on what type of music you like, how much bass you want and of course most importantly, your budget will give the best answer for finding the right sub for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Minesbroken View Post
    #1 One sub is fine, a second sub would need a fifty percent increase in power and yield only a 3 decibel difference. You can use one and bridge the amp as long as the amp is bridgeable, you must also find out what Ohms load the amplifier makes power at. some are 2 ohm stable some 4. Some subwoofers are single voice coil or dual voice coil you tell me what amp you have and I will tell you what kind of sub you need.
    But decibels are logarithmic so 3 decibels IS twice as loud. and 2 subs aren't necessarily 50% louder. In an ideal world maybe. Physics gets complicated.

    #5 I have two 8 inch subs in a vented enclosure, it sounds similar to a couple of 10's or 12's in a prefab box. if you cant build your own box then I suggest a single 12 inch in a prefab box, a 10 will do but a 12 would be better all around and take more of a pounding.
    12's takes more of a pounding? I think they have more surface area and greater inertia so different sound characteristics. But most subs are rated the same power for 10's and 12's.

    Quote Originally Posted by RubenX View Post
    THX for tips man... I have a cheapo radio, "Dual" brand, from Autozone. It's 200watts (which is really enough for mah), 2 RCA outs on the back for subwoofer, and a wonderful usb port that can read any mp3-filled thumbdrive I've tried so far.

    I shall now learn about crossovers, fiberglassing and "the big 3"...
    Good luck with that deck. Be happy if it lasts 6 months. Those always broke when people bought them.

    The "big 3" is a little overrated IMO. Now I did it to my car but just because I have an older car and redid the the engine's wiring harness when I rebuilt the engine. But most modern cars it isn't really necessary. Especially just one amp.

  25. #25
    It is what it is... Minesbroken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReducedLunch View Post
    most of these questions have been answered but there's still a little vagueness about the sub and size. I would ask first what kind of music do you listen to? Everyone has their preferences and heard "their buddy's" sub and think it's the best ever. As someone with a lot of experience and knowledge in the field I've heard a lot of subs and a lot of stuff customers say and think they know. Depending on what type of music you like, how much bass you want and of course most importantly, your budget will give the best answer for finding the right sub for you.



    But decibels are logarithmic so 3 decibels IS twice as loud. and 2 subs aren't necessarily 50% louder. In an ideal world maybe. Physics gets complicated.





    12's takes more of a pounding? I think they have more surface area and greater inertia so different sound characteristics. But most subs are rated the same power for 10's and 12's.



    Good luck with that deck. Be happy if it lasts 6 months. Those always broke when people bought them.

    The "big 3" is a little overrated IMO. Now I did it to my car but just because I have an older car and redid the the engine's wiring harness when I rebuilt the engine. But most modern cars it isn't really necessary. Especially just one amp.
    what your talking about is doubling the signal input, that will give you a 3 db increase.

    on the other end a 3 db increase is by no means doubling your output and in fact on the output side double is actually double....
    50 db x 2 is 100 db.

    In a perfect world you need a second sub and a fifty percent increase in power to get another 3 decibels.

    assuming of course you were starting out with one...

    In the correct enclosure with the correct airspace with the correct amount of power and no distortion, two 8 inch subs can take the same "pounding" as two twelve inch subs.
    If you tune the box correctly they can even reach similar db at similar frequencies.
    My dual eight inch box was tuned to 32 hz, same as my single 12 inch solobaric.
    the two 8 inch comp vr's hit 140 db at 4 ohms with 150 watts
    the single solobaric hit 141 db at 2 ohms with 750 watts
    both boxes had the same resonant frequency of 32 hz.
    the solobaric 12 was horribly inefficient in comparison for only 1 extra db and needed 600 more watts to do so.
    Last edited by Minesbroken; 09-28-10 at 06:50 PM.
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