Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 16 of 16
  1. #1
    Hey guyz? Guyz? Wait up!! Siu Blue Wind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    10,547
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Leased cars - End of term responsibility and liability

    Dad leases car. Adult son falls asleep at wheel and crashes car into tree. Son is not on insurance although was thought to be (dad unwittingly signed a waiver saying son is not to be on policy). Insurance will not cover. Damage is 10k. Lease will be up in half a year. Son does not have money outright to repair damage on his own with genuine parts but does have enough to use aftermarket cheapo parts. We are talking about front end body, hood, some engine. He plans on having it repaired in time to do the lease return.

    Is the liability on him to use genuine factory parts or can he get by with using aftermarket? This would cut his cost in half.

    He has not reported the accident to the company dad leased it from.
    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha
    We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.
    Quote Originally Posted by making View Post
    Please dont outsmart the censor. That is a very expensive censor and every time one of you guys outsmart it it makes someone at the home office feel bad. We dont wanna do that. So dont cleverly disguise bad words.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Near Sacramento
    Posts
    4,875
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It depends on the terms in the lease contract. It should be spelled out there.
    -------

    Some sort of pithy irrelevant one-liner should go here.

  3. #3
    Free @coasting RUOkie's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    In a Haggard Song
    My Bikes
    2009 ORBEA Onix Rival. 2012 Felt Breed, 1999 Raleigh 500
    Posts
    10,524
    Mentioned
    92 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Siu Blue Wind View Post
    Dad leases car. Adult son falls asleep at wheel and crashes car into tree. Son is not on insurance although was thought to be (dad unwittingly signed a waiver saying son is not to be on policy). Insurance will not cover. Damage is 10k. Lease will be up in half a year. Son does not have money outright to repair damage on his own with genuine parts but does have enough to use aftermarket cheapo parts. We are talking about front end body, hood, some engine. He plans on having it repaired in time to do the lease return.

    Is the liability on him to use genuine factory parts or can he get by with using aftermarket? This would cut his cost in half.

    He has not reported the accident to the company dad leased it from.
    I would think that aftermarket repairs would be a violation of the lease agreement. Dad does NOT own that car. He needs to report it to the lease company. Dad needs to fix car per arrangement with the lease company and then work out his own terms with his son. Dad broke the terms of insurance, so he is responsible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Herbie53 View Post
    Being full of crap and depositing it here consistently is really nothing to be proud of.

  4. #4
    Hey guyz? Guyz? Wait up!! Siu Blue Wind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    10,547
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The thing is, if he really broke the terms of the insurance or not. On paper he did, but ....

    Dad does not speak English and the son went with him to get the insurance. During that time, the insurance agent filled out a form that would waive the son driving it, and slid the paper to the dad to sign it. Dad signed it. Son asked what that was, to let him see it. The agent explained that since the son was living at the house, he would not be covered, that this is a waiver saying the son will not be insured. The son pointed out that he has his own residency, that there may be a time when he needs to drive dad to appts, etc.

    The insurance agent took the document out of the stack, said he would disregard and destroy the signed paper, that the son will be on the insurance.

    Needless to say, the form was in the file when he went to inquire about the accident and to make a claim. The family was denied the insurance. He tried to fight it but the it's a no win situation.

    So he has accepted that he has to pay for it himself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha
    We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.
    Quote Originally Posted by making View Post
    Please dont outsmart the censor. That is a very expensive censor and every time one of you guys outsmart it it makes someone at the home office feel bad. We dont wanna do that. So dont cleverly disguise bad words.

  5. #5
    Senior Member longbeachgary's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Beautiful Long Beach California
    My Bikes
    Eddy Merckx MXL; 2012 CAAD10; 2013 CAAD10 - The Silver and Black; Cannondale CAAD10 DI2 - The Black Dahlia; 2013 Cannondale CAAD10 DI2, The Black Mambo
    Posts
    3,273
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Factory parts not aftermarket. The son is not liable - the dad is.

  6. #6
    Hey guyz? Guyz? Wait up!! Siu Blue Wind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    10,547
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The second question is, how will the leasing company find out what parts are on it?

    The son will not let the dad pay for it since he crashed it. But he doesn't have the money to do OEM.

    .....Oh I might add that some front end suspension work is needed too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha
    We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.
    Quote Originally Posted by making View Post
    Please dont outsmart the censor. That is a very expensive censor and every time one of you guys outsmart it it makes someone at the home office feel bad. We dont wanna do that. So dont cleverly disguise bad words.

  7. #7
    Super Moderator no1mad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    NE OK
    My Bikes
    '06 Kona Smoke
    Posts
    8,064
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    What I don't get/like about auto insurance is that: a)if I let someone borrow my car and they get into an accident, they are covered- since they are (presumably) licensed and they were authorized by me to operate the vehicle. b)if it's family, though (especially in the same household- kids) the rules are different...

    As for the OP:
    -Dad needs to report it
    -Dad could try and file against Son's insurance
    -Dad's insurance broker/agent is a hack and should be reported. May not do any good, but if there are others who are dealing with the same problem related to the same agent...
    -Dad should start shopping around for a new insurance company
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyril View Post
    Ride what and in what manner pleases you. Those that mind don't matter, and those that matter don't mind. srsly.
    Community guidelines

  8. #8
    Super Moderator no1mad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    NE OK
    My Bikes
    '06 Kona Smoke
    Posts
    8,064
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Son crashed into a tree and did $10k worth of damage? Airbags go off by any chance? Most of the vehicles I've owned over the years would have just been totaled with that much damage... What kind of vehicle we talking about here?

    As far as the leasing company spotting after market parts goes, I'd imagine they couldn't tell the difference in the body panels, but engine/suspension they just might notice. If they do a thorough inspection when the vehicle is turned back in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyril View Post
    Ride what and in what manner pleases you. Those that mind don't matter, and those that matter don't mind. srsly.
    Community guidelines

  9. #9
    Hey guyz? Guyz? Wait up!! Siu Blue Wind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    10,547
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hmmm... That's a good idea filing against son's insurance. I'll mention that to him, thanks!


    His car is a Lexus. Lemme go find out what the damage is again.

    Edit: I was mistaken. No engine and no suspension. This is what he said: I know ill need a hood, the entire front end, both lights or at least light covers...
    Last edited by Siu Blue Wind; 09-20-10 at 10:23 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha
    We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.
    Quote Originally Posted by making View Post
    Please dont outsmart the censor. That is a very expensive censor and every time one of you guys outsmart it it makes someone at the home office feel bad. We dont wanna do that. So dont cleverly disguise bad words.

  10. #10
    clean water waikikihei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Maui, HI
    My Bikes
    Litespeed
    Posts
    174
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'm no expert on this subject but it seems to me that fixing the car on the cheap may end up costing more in the long run. The leasing company will surely detect that the front end has been repaired. All body panels have stickers on them with the vin. When they see the new panels they will inspect each part with a fine toothed comb. Someone will pay, that's for sure. I've always been told that turning in a lease can get expensive when they add up every scratch on a car. A caved in front end on a lexus? Someone's going to get reamed.
    "Take a picture, take my identification, but you are not taking my bike. - Trackman

  11. #11
    Hey guyz? Guyz? Wait up!! Siu Blue Wind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    10,547
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by waikikihei View Post
    I'm no expert on this subject but it seems to me that fixing the car on the cheap may end up costing more in the long run. The leasing company will surely detect that the front end has been repaired. All body panels have stickers on them with the vin. When they see the new panels they will inspect each part with a fine toothed comb. Someone will pay, that's for sure. I've always been told that turning in a lease can get expensive when they add up every scratch on a car. A caved in front end on a lexus? Someone's going to get reamed.
    YES!! You are correct here, they do! And I noticed that each window has LEXUS etched...Oooo, I better tell him. Thanks for reminding me!
    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha
    We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.
    Quote Originally Posted by making View Post
    Please dont outsmart the censor. That is a very expensive censor and every time one of you guys outsmart it it makes someone at the home office feel bad. We dont wanna do that. So dont cleverly disguise bad words.

  12. #12
    The Site Administrator: Currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes,please contact my assistnt admins for forum issues Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    South Florida
    My Bikes
    Techna Wheelchair and a Sun EZ 3 Recumbent Trike
    Posts
    16,158
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)
    Find out the total damages cost for factory parts, and also find out what the buy out cost is for the car rather than turn in, and then go with the cheapest option. Buy out may well be cheaper than repair and turn in. Also, if you do the repair route, make sure the WHOLE car is painted and not just the damage repair areas, since it won't cost all that much more overall and will address any scratches or nicks on the body.
    on light duty due to illness; please contact my assistants for forum issues. They are Siu Blue Wind, or CbadRider or the other 3 star folk. I am currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes. I am making good progress, happily.


    . “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche

    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    817
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I just returned a leased car this past July at the end of a 3 year lease. The dealership just did a cursory inspection but the manufacturer was actually the owner of the car - it is standard procedure for Ford Leasing. Anyway, as I had moved out of state, I could have returned the car "locally" but returned to where I had leased it from and then flew back home that day - so, the Ford Corporation Leasing inspector actually did the detailed acceptance inspection 2 days after I turned the car in --- only then was the car lease "finalized".

    Having been a car salesman at that particular dealership for a summer, I can tell you that the Corporate lease inspector can be a royal pain if he's been tipped off by the dealership that anything seems suspect. A severely damaged front end that's been repaired with aftermarket parts WILL be detected and "lawyers"/accountants will get involved if necessary to recover costs/damages. Most lease agreements specify that the car will be returned in the same condition it was originally leased in after allowing for "normall wear & tear". NW&T includes things like tire tread wear, air filters needing replacement, MINOR dirt/stains on the upholstery, etc. Actual damage to side panels, doors, cracks in windshields, etc. are not covered without contractual riders (insurance) as part of the lease contract.

    So, where does that leave the OP? Well, basically, "Dad" might have just bought himself a car. That's best case scenario. Worse case, they'll repair it and charge through the whazooo for it --- not very likely, but possible. It's up to them/whatever is in the contract.

    Edit to add: Regardless of what the son says, what's in the signed paperwork is what applies - and the son may not have been authorized "on paper" as a driver of the car. That is why doing the lease buyout may actually be the best avenue here despite the fact that the family is obviously going to lose money on the deal here no matter what.
    Last edited by drmweaver2; 09-21-10 at 09:47 AM.

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Terre Haute, Lafayette, or Indianapolis, IN, depending on the day
    My Bikes
    n, I would like n+1
    Posts
    1,917
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Stormcrowe View Post
    Find out the total damages cost for factory parts, and also find out what the buy out cost is for the car rather than turn in, and then go with the cheapest option. Buy out may well be cheaper than repair and turn in. Also, if you do the repair route, make sure the WHOLE car is painted and not just the damage repair areas, since it won't cost all that much more overall and will address any scratches or nicks on the body.
    You've had a much different experience with painters than I have. I neighbor recently ended up paying $800 at a local auto body place for paint on his front bumper (2005 Viper) after a trip through the grass in a less than forward direction. While he could have had the entire car painted somewhere else for $2000, the quality wouldn't have been anywhere near the same, and it still would have been more than 2x as much.

  15. #15
    Senior Member skiahh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    CO Springs, CO
    My Bikes
    08 Stumpjumper FSR Expert, 02 Litespeed Tuscany, 04 Specialized S-Works Epic
    Posts
    1,034
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Fact is, most insurance companies insist on non-OEM parts unless you can show they are sub-standard or not equal to OEM parts. If you still want to go OEM, you pay the difference. I have one of the best insurance companies in the country (USAA) and even they do this.

    Not having read the lease, I would bet that it says you have to return the car in the same basic shape you got it, less wear and tear. Equivalent non-OEM parts should be just fine on a lease return and cost nothing to satisfy the lease.

    If the car company tries to tell you it's not, then call the AG... and the state insurance Commissioners office. It can't be both ways!!
    Last edited by skiahh; 09-21-10 at 11:11 PM.
    www.teamnavycycling.org
    2010 Pivot Mach 429
    09 Felt Nine Race
    03 Litespeed Tuscany

  16. #16
    Surf Bum
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Pacifica, CA
    My Bikes
    Vintage Trek, Vintage Diamond Back Mountain Bike, Bianchi Axis CrossBike
    Posts
    2,011
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Two ideas: 1) son reports the accident to his own insurance company and they will repair the car 2) tomorrow dad crashes the car into another tree, and then dad's insurance company will cover it.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •