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  1. #1
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    Planning for Doomsday

    Whether the end of the world is caused by zombies, nuclear weapons, God(s)/nature, biological or chemical agents, or extraterrestrials, what supplies do you need to increase your chance of survival?

    I have been interested in this topic lately (perhaps because I've been watching/playing a lot of scifi movies/games) and have had many in-depth conversations with friends and nobody seems to be able to come to a consensus on a general plan for survival.

    It is obviously impossible to plan for any and all scenarios but what should you reasonably pack into a bag that is ready at all times? Also where do you store it? At home? In a car? Buried somewhere on the outskirts of town?
    Last edited by darksiderising; 03-24-11 at 02:09 AM.

  2. #2
    2 Fat 2 Furious contango's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darksiderising View Post
    Whether the end of the world is caused by zombies, nuclear weapons, God(s)/nature, biological or chemical agents, or extraterrestrials, what supplies do you need to increase your chance of survival?

    I have been interested in this topic lately (perhaps because I've been watching/playing a lot of scifi movies/games) and have had many in-depth conversations with friends and nobody seems to be able to come to a consensus on a general plan for survival.

    It is obviously impossible to plan for any and all scenarios but what should you reasonably pack into a bag that is ready at all times? Also where do you store it? At home? In a car? Buried somewhere on the outskirts of town?
    You'll hear lots of theories about how best to play this one but the bottom line is that, depending on just how bad The End is, you're not going to be able to put enough in one bag to make a meaningful difference. And that's before you consider the logistics of where to keep the bag.

    Assume you're looking out only for yourself, i.e. you don't have a spouse, children or other family or friends to think of. Where are you going to be when you realise it's time to bug out of there? If you don't have your survival bag with you at that time, forget you have it at all. If you have to travel from wherever you are to wherever you left it, that time could make the difference between getting out of town and not getting out of town. If you've got a spouse and/or children where do you all meet? If that's not figured out in advance then by the time you've rounded up the family you may already be too late to get out of town easily.

    What clothes are you going to be wearing? Depending on the roads around your way you may or may not be able to get out of town in a car. There may be roadblocks which require bribes or other payments, there may be roadblocks to stop people leaving, there may be enough gridlock on the roads to make it impossible to leave even without specific roadblocks. So you need to plan to leave by bike or on foot. Travelling any distance on foot means you want decent boots - too bad if the brown meets the spinning while you're at work in a pinstripe and Oxford brogues.

    But let's overlook all of that, and again think about only looking after yourself. You'll need suitable clothes depending on where you live, and ideally at least one change of clothes. You'll need food, and probably quite a lot of it if you don't know how long you'll have to live out of your bag. Then comes the water - let's say 2 litres per day for two weeks, which makes 28kg of water alone before you factor in the containers and anything else you might want to carry.

    You might think in terms of finding food and water on the move and purifying it, in which case it comes down to a question of how likely it is you'll find water that's even fit to be purified. Zombie invasions may not influence water quality but chemical and biological agents may render it unusable. A meltdown on a Biblical scale (e.g. something as described in the book of Revelation) that literally saw water turned to blood and the skies stopped from raining, plagues of locusts etc would pretty much mean no food or water for survivalists.

    Of course if you've got supplies you'll be targetted by people who don't, so you'll need a way to protect your supplies. Guns and ammo can get heavy when you carry a lot of them (and you've already got 28kg of water alone to haul). You have to sleep sooner or later so you'd best pair up with other people who can keep watch, and hope they don't rob you blind while you sleep.

    Ultimately I'm minded to think that the kind of disaster that leaves the option to stay at home, or find somewhere fairly close by that is safe (even if that means sleeping on the floor of the community hall in the next town) is readily survivable. The kind of thing that forces you to flee based on the assumption you'll never be back probably isn't.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Hulley's Avatar
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    Go to youtube and search "bug out bag". Many people keep one in the vehicles and another in thier home. BOBs (bug out bag) are actually pretty smart and dont just apply to people who think the world is gonna end. You never know when there will be a disaster and you cant get anywhere in your car so you have to hoof it. Thats when a BOB will be very handy, some rain protection, medical supplies a couple of power bars and water and maybe a good pair of hiking boots are great to keep in your car. It'll provide you some assistance if you got to leave your car and walk home.
    2011 Scott Addict. Lynskey R230 on the "List".
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    I appreciate both of your responses. I wanted to discuss this topic mostly for fun but also for practical reasons. I should have mentioned that I live in a rural suburban area with many backroads, mountains, and open spaces.

    In the event of a period of chaos where driving a car is not a safe option, my general plan is to head up the mountain just outside of town, which is scarcely populated, and take refuge in the nature preserve at the top. I am very familiar with the lay of the land and there is a healthy population of turkeys, deer, smaller creatures, and edible plants up there. It also gives me a good amount of mobility and options, with access to two major valleys and a ridge that extends to larger cities both 10 miles North and South.

    I am also assuming that the survival gear is for an event where there is some element of predictability or foresight. If something cataclysmic is going to happen out of the blue (worst case scenario), then there is really no planning for it. I am talking about a situation where you can see that things are starting to go bad and you have at least some time to plan.

    I think the most probable SHTF scenario where survival is a concern involves the exponential decline in the stability of our country or region due to competition for diminishing resources both worldwide and on a local scale. I think in my lifetime (in my 20s) we will see constant world wars fought over resources. I think that horrific struggles over energy production/distribution, water, and food will all be contested. I am not sure which will happen first but they are all connected and one affects the others. It's also very possible that differing circumstances will yield different priorities as to which resources are worth fighting over.

  5. #5
    You Know!? For Kids! jsharr's Avatar
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    Nothing I can do will increase my time on this plane of existence. To think otherwise would be sheer folly and hubris.
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    Quote Originally Posted by colorider View Post
    Phobias are for irrational fears. Fear of junk ripping badgers is perfectly rational. Those things are nasty.

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    Hey guyz? Guyz? Wait up!! Siu Blue Wind's Avatar
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    In The End, it doesn't even matter.
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    We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.
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    Please dont outsmart the censor. That is a very expensive censor and every time one of you guys outsmart it it makes someone at the home office feel bad. We dont wanna do that. So dont cleverly disguise bad words.

  8. #8
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    1 jar of nutella per person per day for a week. We are deep into the stash though.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    Your situation being Rural I'd say staying close to home is a good idea. Knowing the land is a huge advantage.

    In planning for disaster the first thing is to ask how long a disaster. The planning for 2 weeks is entirely different than for 12 years.

    Still for anything more than 2 weeks skills are going to serve you better than supplies. Even for 2 weeks skills and basic fitness may be the deciding factor. When I was younger I hiked a lot and even into my late 40s I was quite happy hiking Maori style. Pair of shorts, no shoes and I still could cover several miles with no trouble.

    Scout out water sources. Pick places where you could sleep. Learn to use a bow and other silent weapons. If you hunt with a 30.06 or shotgun everyone withing miles will know where you are. If they are hungry enough that means a confrontation. No one can stay awake forever.

    I would suggest reading Tunnel in The Sky by Heinlein. I'll give one piece of wisdom that a careful reader would gt. When it comes to survival the question of go it alone or team up changes with the time frame. A week? Go it alone. Over a month, at lesat a partner. Over a year a tribe. (These only address yuor individual survival, teaming up enve for one week makes sense if the survival of the rest of your team is important to you).

    One last thing to plan for. Do you have any special needs? If I wer planing a survival kit 30 years ago I would have included somethign for bee stings as I am allergic. Now I am aging and have a slightly enlarged prostate. Without medication it would become worse and worse. I'm not even sure anythign with a shelf life of years exists.

    Consider taking up gardening. You will learn things and a failed crop now won't kill you. After disaster a failed crop might. If you really want to go whole hog consider planting fruit treas in the back country. This site might help:

    http://www.kuffelcreek.com/index.html

    It is about apples, not survival, but it ahs cheap plants and gives evidence apples can survive with minimal care once established.

    On a personal note. I happen to like caves and mines. If there are any near you a bit of exploring might make sense. Such can make good sleeping places and also good stash places. The Dawn mine near Pasadena may likely provide both and a reliable source of water. (I say may because I know there is a part of it few explore. That section is difficult to get to and because of that I have not explored it either.

    Quote Originally Posted by darksiderising View Post
    I appreciate both of your responses. I wanted to discuss this topic mostly for fun but also for practical reasons. I should have mentioned that I live in a rural suburban area with many backroads, mountains, and open spaces.

    In the event of a period of chaos where driving a car is not a safe option, my general plan is to head up the mountain just outside of town, which is scarcely populated, and take refuge in the nature preserve at the top. I am very familiar with the lay of the land and there is a healthy population of turkeys, deer, smaller creatures, and edible plants up there. It also gives me a good amount of mobility and options, with access to two major valleys and a ridge that extends to larger cities both 10 miles North and South.

  10. #10
    Senior Member jdswitters's Avatar
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    Read "Emergency" by Neil Strauss. http://www.amazon.com/Emergency-This.../dp/0060898771

    It is very practical, and the final chapter will make you rethink what you really need. He talks to all kinds of survivalists, learns a lot of good information about not just survival but also protecting financial assets in case of a country wide upheaval.
    Torker Graduate, 288 rods a day without pub detours.

  11. #11
    I'm Carbon Curious 531phile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith99 View Post
    Your situation being Rural I'd say staying close to home is a good idea. Knowing the land is a huge advantage.

    In planning for disaster the first thing is to ask how long a disaster. The planning for 2 weeks is entirely different than for 12 years.

    Still for anything more than 2 weeks skills are going to serve you better than supplies. Even for 2 weeks skills and basic fitness may be the deciding factor. When I was younger I hiked a lot and even into my late 40s I was quite happy hiking Maori style. Pair of shorts, no shoes and I still could cover several miles with no trouble.

    Scout out water sources. Pick places where you could sleep. Learn to use a bow and other silent weapons. If you hunt with a 30.06 or shotgun everyone withing miles will know where you are. If they are hungry enough that means a confrontation. No one can stay awake forever.

    I would suggest reading Tunnel in The Sky by Heinlein. I'll give one piece of wisdom that a careful reader would gt. When it comes to survival the question of go it alone or team up changes with the time frame. A week? Go it alone. Over a month, at lesat a partner. Over a year a tribe. (These only address yuor individual survival, teaming up enve for one week makes sense if the survival of the rest of your team is important to you).

    One last thing to plan for. Do you have any special needs? If I wer planing a survival kit 30 years ago I would have included somethign for bee stings as I am allergic. Now I am aging and have a slightly enlarged prostate. Without medication it would become worse and worse. I'm not even sure anythign with a shelf life of years exists.

    Consider taking up gardening. You will learn things and a failed crop now won't kill you. After disaster a failed crop might. If you really want to go whole hog consider planting fruit treas in the back country. This site might help:

    http://www.kuffelcreek.com/index.html

    It is about apples, not survival, but it ahs cheap plants and gives evidence apples can survive with minimal care once established.

    On a personal note. I happen to like caves and mines. If there are any near you a bit of exploring might make sense. Such can make good sleeping places and also good stash places. The Dawn mine near Pasadena may likely provide both and a reliable source of water. (I say may because I know there is a part of it few explore. That section is difficult to get to and because of that I have not explored it either.
    Good post. All the economic doomsday documentaries have people recommending growing a garden. Makes sense once food prices skyrocket. My only problem is, I own no land. I'm a goner. I should enroll in courses on ninjalogy because I will most likely have to "get" food in a creative sort of manner or learn how to make tasty meals from h0m0 sapiens.

    Quote Originally Posted by avner View Post
    I loled. Twice. Then I cried. Then I rubbed one out and cried again, but thanks for sharing.

  12. #12
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    2 Fat 2 Furious contango's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darksiderising View Post
    I appreciate both of your responses. I wanted to discuss this topic mostly for fun but also for practical reasons. I should have mentioned that I live in a rural suburban area with many backroads, mountains, and open spaces.

    In the event of a period of chaos where driving a car is not a safe option, my general plan is to head up the mountain just outside of town, which is scarcely populated, and take refuge in the nature preserve at the top. I am very familiar with the lay of the land and there is a healthy population of turkeys, deer, smaller creatures, and edible plants up there. It also gives me a good amount of mobility and options, with access to two major valleys and a ridge that extends to larger cities both 10 miles North and South.
    Great in theory but don't think you'll be the only one there. If there's a healthy population of animals you might eat then anyone else who might like to eat will want them too. Also be aware that if someone else is at the nature preserve before you, the chances are they won't want to willingly share it.

    I am also assuming that the survival gear is for an event where there is some element of predictability or foresight. If something cataclysmic is going to happen out of the blue (worst case scenario), then there is really no planning for it. I am talking about a situation where you can see that things are starting to go bad and you have at least some time to plan.
    Great in theory but (at risk of invoking Godwin's Law very early on) a lot of Jews stuck around in Nazi Germany not realising how bad things were going to get.

    I think the most probable SHTF scenario where survival is a concern involves the exponential decline in the stability of our country or region due to competition for diminishing resources both worldwide and on a local scale. I think in my lifetime (in my 20s) we will see constant world wars fought over resources. I think that horrific struggles over energy production/distribution, water, and food will all be contested. I am not sure which will happen first but they are all connected and one affects the others. It's also very possible that differing circumstances will yield different priorities as to which resources are worth fighting over.
    Fights over energy are pointless if there isn't enough clean water to go around. I suspect there will be fights over food and water within my lifetime, along with total socioeconomic collapse. As to who comes out on top, who knows?

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    2 Fat 2 Furious contango's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 531phile View Post
    Good post. All the economic doomsday documentaries have people recommending growing a garden. Makes sense once food prices skyrocket. My only problem is, I own no land. I'm a goner. I should enroll in courses on ninjalogy because I will most likely have to "get" food in a creative sort of manner or learn how to make tasty meals from h0m0 sapiens.
    Growing a garden only works with meltdowns up to a certain level. Beyond a certain level the hungry people come and eat the food before you get to it.

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    Senior Member no motor?'s Avatar
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    Isn't anyone planning on going out like Jim Morrison in a ball of hedonistic flames?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 531phile View Post
    Good post. All the economic doomsday documentaries have people recommending growing a garden. Makes sense once food prices skyrocket. My only problem is, I own no land. I'm a goner. I should enroll in courses on ninjalogy because I will most likely have to "get" food in a creative sort of manner or learn how to make tasty meals from h0m0 sapiens.
    Have you been watching The Road again?

  18. #18
    Senior Member RunningPirate's Avatar
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    You'll need a .357, a box of hollow points a bottle of Scotch and enough mescaline to cut a mile-wide swath from the Bay Bridge to the Columbia River Gorge. It may or may not be of assistance, because in The End if something (God, gods, zombies, nature, animals, Karma whatever) wants you dead, that's it. Stick a fork in you: You're toast.

    [OK, I'm done channeling Hunter S. Thompson]

    Now, really - if you were in a SHTF scenario that got that bad, would you really want to stick around? I mean Zombies! Ye gods!

    All that said, living in The Bay Area, I do, in fact, keep a backpack filled with survival stuff (water, food, etc) in case an earthquake hits...need to stay alive long enough to make it home to get the Scotch, the .357 and the bullets
    There's nothing for you to see here...just move along, now...

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by contango View Post
    Fights over energy are pointless if there isn't enough clean water to go around. I suspect there will be fights over food and water within my lifetime, along with total socioeconomic collapse. As to who comes out on top, who knows?
    I think you're looking at energy the wrong way. We aren't necessarily going to be fighting over energy sources because we can't get any ourselves, but because it has gradually become too expensive to afford. There is a definite tipping point in the cost of energy where we decide that it is worthwhile to engage in all-out war. There are definitely plausible scenarios in the not-so-distant future where the United States has access to affordable food and water but energy sources have become too expensive. China, however, will probably be in the opposite situation.

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    Planing for survival for "the end" of the world would be like bringing ballerina shoes to go surfing on Himalayas.

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    derailleurs are overrated bigbenaugust's Avatar
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    All depends on which end of the world you're talking about:

    http://www.exitmundi.nl/exitmundi.htm
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    I'll be find. I plan on stealing all of Ben's stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by darksiderising View Post
    Whether the end of the world is caused by zombies, nuclear weapons, God(s)/nature, biological or chemical agents, or extraterrestrials, what supplies do you need to increase your chance of survival?

    I have been interested in this topic lately (perhaps because I've been watching/playing a lot of scifi movies/games) and have had many in-depth conversations with friends and nobody seems to be able to come to a consensus on a general plan for survival.

    It is obviously impossible to plan for any and all scenarios but what should you reasonably pack into a bag that is ready at all times? Also where do you store it? At home? In a car? Buried somewhere on the outskirts of town?
    Actually there seems to be a need for clarification here. Are you referring to the actual physical end of this planet? Or the end of modern civilization as it has been for the past 150 years or so? Or nuclear bombing? Or just a periodic societal readjustment?

    I used to worry about The End. Now I have more pressing things to worry about-like just living.

  24. #24
    I'm Carbon Curious 531phile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skijor View Post
    Have you been watching The Road again?
    No but I'll put that in my movie queue now. Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by avner View Post
    I loled. Twice. Then I cried. Then I rubbed one out and cried again, but thanks for sharing.

  25. #25
    I'm Carbon Curious 531phile's Avatar
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    I really dug Viggo Mortensen in Cronenberg's History of Violence.

    Quote Originally Posted by avner View Post
    I loled. Twice. Then I cried. Then I rubbed one out and cried again, but thanks for sharing.

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