Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Foo Off-Topic chit chat with no general subject.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-26-11, 06:35 PM   #1
Wordbiker
Pwnerer
Thread Starter
 
Wordbiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Pagosa Springs, CO, USA
Bikes: Road, MTB, Cruiser, Chopper, BMX
Posts: 2,907
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Watercooling PCs

Anyone up on it? I have questions...
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahsposo View Post
Ski, bike and wish I was gay.
Wordbiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-11, 07:43 PM   #2
bigbenaugust 
derailleurs are overrated
 
bigbenaugust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: KIGX
Bikes: 2009 Fantom CX, 2012 Fantom Cross Uno, Bakfiets
Posts: 1,980
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
I have one word for you: Flourinert. Do it like a Cray, baby.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorinert
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cray-2
__________________
--Ben
Carrboro Bike Coalition - putting the "bike" in "CARrboro" :)
2011 Motobecane Fantom Cross Uno, 2009 Motobecane Fantom CX, and a Bakfiets
Previously: 2000 Trek 4500 (2000-2003), 2003 Novara Randonee (2003-2006), 2003 Giant Rainier (2003-2008), 2005 Xootr Swift (2005-2007), 2007 Nashbar 1x9 (2007-2011), 2011 Windsor Shetland (2011-2014), 2008 Citizen Folder (2015)
Non-Bike hardware: openSUSE Leap - LinuxMint Debian Edition 2 - Mac OS 10.6 - Android 4.4 - CyanogenMod 13
bigbenaugust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-11, 07:45 PM   #3
Wordbiker
Pwnerer
Thread Starter
 
Wordbiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Pagosa Springs, CO, USA
Bikes: Road, MTB, Cruiser, Chopper, BMX
Posts: 2,907
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbenaugust View Post
I have one word for you: Flourinert. Do it like a Cray, baby.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorinert
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cray-2
I want to cool a PC, not bake a cake.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahsposo View Post
Ski, bike and wish I was gay.
Wordbiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-11, 07:56 PM   #4
bigbenaugust 
derailleurs are overrated
 
bigbenaugust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: KIGX
Bikes: 2009 Fantom CX, 2012 Fantom Cross Uno, Bakfiets
Posts: 1,980
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
You know, it looked funny when I typed it... I blame not sleeping much for the last week.

There have also been people who used chilled vodka to cool a machine.
__________________
--Ben
Carrboro Bike Coalition - putting the "bike" in "CARrboro" :)
2011 Motobecane Fantom Cross Uno, 2009 Motobecane Fantom CX, and a Bakfiets
Previously: 2000 Trek 4500 (2000-2003), 2003 Novara Randonee (2003-2006), 2003 Giant Rainier (2003-2008), 2005 Xootr Swift (2005-2007), 2007 Nashbar 1x9 (2007-2011), 2011 Windsor Shetland (2011-2014), 2008 Citizen Folder (2015)
Non-Bike hardware: openSUSE Leap - LinuxMint Debian Edition 2 - Mac OS 10.6 - Android 4.4 - CyanogenMod 13
bigbenaugust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-11, 08:02 PM   #5
Wordbiker
Pwnerer
Thread Starter
 
Wordbiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Pagosa Springs, CO, USA
Bikes: Road, MTB, Cruiser, Chopper, BMX
Posts: 2,907
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbenaugust View Post
You know, it looked funny when I typed it... I blame not sleeping much for the last week.

There have also been people who used chilled vodka to cool a machine.
Yes, and you can drink your mistakes!

I was hoping to find someone with some experience with watercooling, specifically about 120mm single radiators for low to mid-flow PWM fans and Phobya Extreme 200 radiators on a Silverstone 180mm FM181, hopefully adapted to PWM control.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahsposo View Post
Ski, bike and wish I was gay.
Wordbiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-11, 08:48 PM   #6
bjtesch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Irving, TX
Bikes: Schwinn Paramount
Posts: 358
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm somewhat up on overclocking Intel processors, but I'm only partly up on water cooling.

I think it really depends on what CPU you are running and how much you want to overclock it. The core 2 quads and the first generation of i5 and i7 processors are the ones that benefit the most from water cooling. Plus you can add cooling to some of the high heat producing graphics cards. The latest versions of intel chips like the i5-2500k and i7-2600k don't seem to require water cooling. It's hard for me to justify water cooling unless a person really wants to do it, and it is an interesting concept on some levels.

There are some all in one water coolers on the market but they don't seem to be worth the trouble. The air coolers on the market are getting better and better.

The machines I've built in the past 2 years, all with air coolers-
Q6600 overclocked to 3.5GHz
E8500 overclocked to 3.8GHz
Q9400 overclocked to 3.8GHz
i5-750 (3 of them) overclocked to 3.9GHz
bjtesch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-11, 09:17 PM   #7
Wordbiker
Pwnerer
Thread Starter
 
Wordbiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Pagosa Springs, CO, USA
Bikes: Road, MTB, Cruiser, Chopper, BMX
Posts: 2,907
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks bjtesch, but I'm already decided on watercooling in the hope to get some silence above OC potential.

This will be either an i5 or i7 Sandy Bridge build depending upon how much cash I have at the time, and the focus is on gaming and portability for LANs with some normal usage thrown in, so scaling is crucial. I have not purchased any hardware yet as I am working out the physical positioning of the components and have only purchased what was necessary for dimensioning.

So far the plan is a mATX form factor in a Lian-Li PC-V354S case modified to accept a Phobya Xtreme 200 radiator pushed by a Silverstone FM181 fan. The 'heart' is a Swiftech MCP35X PWM-controlled pump, replete with the optional reservoir and heatsink. Due to the PC-V354's short stature the reservoir will protrude through the top of the case, which actually makes checking and topping off the fluid very convenient, especially since removing the side panel requires taking out eight tiny screws.

It was while checking the dimensions for the placement of the pump/res that I realized not only would a single 120mm radiator fit behind the rear 120mm exhaust fan, it would place the pump in an aesthetically pleasing position as well as putting it better into the path of airflow for cooling the pump body. While I plan to start out with a single GPU, the motherboard I will choose will be capable of SLI at a later date, so more surface area for cooling will become crucial.

This may all seem a bit nitpicky, but this is also an aesthetic mod with a theme and I'm trying to work out the details before committing to hardware purchases. I was already slightly burned on the reservoir as I was misled as to the specific version I was purchasing. The older version I was sent has issues that the newer version claims to have fixed. The important dimensions are the same, so I'm working with it for now.

So far I have the case, the pump, the radiator, the front intake/radiator fan, a pair of 3/8"ID/5/8"OD compression fittings, a short length of Tygon tubing and a few other odds and ends. So far everything fits...just barely. Optimally I can fit up to a 47mm thick 120mm single radiator behind the pump on brackets that mount to the fan, but am wondering what low-flow fan optimized radiators are available within those specs.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahsposo View Post
Ski, bike and wish I was gay.
Wordbiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-11, 03:03 AM   #8
AEO
Senior Member
 
AEO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: A Coffin Called Earth. or Toronto, ON
Bikes: Bianchi, Miyata, Dahon, Rossin
Posts: 12,258
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
This is all fragmented, so take what you will.

I couldn't get my water cooled system to stop smelling like glycol, which I guess was because of the swiftech hydrex. The other problem I had with it was that it was never as quiet as I would have liked it. The aluminum was too light and allowed a lot of vibration from, I guess, the pump. Isolating the pump, so that it doesn't shake the case, is the biggest challenge, IMO. It did, however, keep my system very cool, as my Athlon X2 3600+ @2.4ghz never went above room temp +12C, and that was with a geforce 7900GS in the same loop.

I was using something fairly similar, with a swiftech MCP-350, MCR-240, MCW-60 and D-tek fuzion on a 3/8" line along with 2x low noise yateloon 120mm fans.

The thing with radiators, is that surface area seems to make a bigger difference compared to airflow. Well, actually, they are related, because with more surface area, you can attach another fan to give more air flow. The key part is, when comparing a 1x120mm mid air flow radiator to a 2x120mm low air flow radiator, the 2x120mm wins by a fair margin.
Even a 140mm fan, air cooled heatpipe heatsink, like noctua NH-D14, can actually compete against water cooling systems that use small radiators if used with a fairly well ventilated case.

As it turns out, there are two approaches to low noise solutions, and one of them is having a case with excellent airflow so that low noise fans can be used along with excellent heatpipe based heatsinks. The other approach was blocking out direct sources of noise, but that impedes airflow and cooling capabilities.

These days, the biggest challenge is to keep the video cards cool, as you are limited in space when compared to the CPU heatsink area. It makes a lot of sense to use water cooling for the video cards, but what's also important to note is that the video cards actually emit MORE heat than the CPU will.

According to what I've learnt, the best placement, in terms of airflow and noise, for the radiator is outside the case and at the rear, bottom or top and separated by a good 1in to 1-1/2in from the case. Although having everything inside is very aesthetically pleasing, cutting up the case usually results in HDD and pump noise leaking outside of the case, which defeats the purpose of low noise cooling. The added bonus is that the radiator gets fresh air instead of warmed up air from inside the case.

I guess I would recommend SCPR and xtremesystems forums if you haven't read already.
__________________
Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
http://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...ger-photos.htm
AEO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-11, 06:34 AM   #9
Wordbiker
Pwnerer
Thread Starter
 
Wordbiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Pagosa Springs, CO, USA
Bikes: Road, MTB, Cruiser, Chopper, BMX
Posts: 2,907
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks AEO.

I have been planning this for a while now, so for better or worse, the plan is already set. I've read the theorizing about internal vs external mounting, but they're the usual geek fights over going for a max OC. I'll get whatever cooling I get with the gear already selected, minus the additional radiator option issue mentioned above.

Some thought has gone into isolating the pump, though some sort of connection is unavoidable. You have made me consider separating the pump and reservoir which may require building something custom, but it would solve the potential issue of noise from the protrusion through the case. The only problem it would create is making the entire watercooling assembly more difficult to install and remove as a unit. By my design now, just a few screws would be needed. Adding more makes the PITA factor increase.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahsposo View Post
Ski, bike and wish I was gay.
Wordbiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-11, 09:13 PM   #10
bjtesch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Irving, TX
Bikes: Schwinn Paramount
Posts: 358
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wordbiker View Post
Some thought has gone into isolating the pump, though some sort of connection is unavoidable.
We had an aquarium for awhile and its air pump was pretty noisy. I ended up hanging it with a big rubber band to isolate its noise from the aquarium stand.
bjtesch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-11, 09:16 PM   #11
bjtesch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Irving, TX
Bikes: Schwinn Paramount
Posts: 358
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I forgot to add- you could go to this forum and ask questions:

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/forum-29-380.html
bjtesch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-11, 09:21 PM   #12
AEO
Senior Member
 
AEO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: A Coffin Called Earth. or Toronto, ON
Bikes: Bianchi, Miyata, Dahon, Rossin
Posts: 12,258
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
fans on video cards are noisy, but the pump makes the whole case vibrate. Not as annoying as a whinny fan, but definitely harder to quiet down compared to a fan.

I wouldn't worry too much about ease of removal for a water cooling system, actually. Once everything is attached, there's really no need to play around with it too often, because it's easier to flip around the case to bleed it out.
well, unless your case happens to weigh 20kg or more.
__________________
Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
http://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...ger-photos.htm

Last edited by AEO; 06-27-11 at 09:26 PM.
AEO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-11, 10:24 PM   #13
Wordbiker
Pwnerer
Thread Starter
 
Wordbiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Pagosa Springs, CO, USA
Bikes: Road, MTB, Cruiser, Chopper, BMX
Posts: 2,907
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks for all the suggestions folks. I think it's time to take this to another forum.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahsposo View Post
Ski, bike and wish I was gay.
Wordbiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-11, 10:48 PM   #14
skijor 
on by
 
skijor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Wisconsin
Bikes: Waterford RS-33, Salsa Vaya, Bacchetta Giro 20 ATT
Posts: 920
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wordbiker View Post
Thanks for all the suggestions folks. I think it's time to take this to another forum.
Might I recommend cooling it instead with Mapple syrup?
skijor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-11, 10:55 PM   #15
bigbenaugust 
derailleurs are overrated
 
bigbenaugust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: KIGX
Bikes: 2009 Fantom CX, 2012 Fantom Cross Uno, Bakfiets
Posts: 1,980
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
You could try olive oil or something.
__________________
--Ben
Carrboro Bike Coalition - putting the "bike" in "CARrboro" :)
2011 Motobecane Fantom Cross Uno, 2009 Motobecane Fantom CX, and a Bakfiets
Previously: 2000 Trek 4500 (2000-2003), 2003 Novara Randonee (2003-2006), 2003 Giant Rainier (2003-2008), 2005 Xootr Swift (2005-2007), 2007 Nashbar 1x9 (2007-2011), 2011 Windsor Shetland (2011-2014), 2008 Citizen Folder (2015)
Non-Bike hardware: openSUSE Leap - LinuxMint Debian Edition 2 - Mac OS 10.6 - Android 4.4 - CyanogenMod 13
bigbenaugust is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:03 AM.