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  1. #1
    more ape than man timmhaan's Avatar
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    IQ based hiring?

    Is it legal to require someone to submit an IQ test prior to consideration for a job? or is that discriminatory?

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    Senior Member Ebbtide's Avatar
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    Yes, it is legal and discriminatory.

  3. #3
    H23
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    Senior Member H23's Avatar
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    Perhaps they had some really bad experiences with employees that were idiots and this is their lame attempt at weeding out morons?

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    無くなった HereNT's Avatar
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    I know that one guy was turned down as a police officer for being too smart - they claimed he would be bored. I think he sued them. Military requitment places get awards based on how smart the people they get to sign up are - they have different brackets that they sort everyone by, based on what jobs they can do...

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    2-Cyl, 1/2 HP @ 90 RPM slvoid's Avatar
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    Yes, it's absolutely legal but make sure they administer the test fairly. Also, is this a real IQ test and not some kind of proficiency test? It seems kinda shady to only use an IQ test.

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    Senior Member joeprim's Avatar
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    A real IQ test usually shows how close the taker lives to the writer. The military test trsts what they want you to know. I would think that it would be better to do that than give a true IQ test. IQ estimation could be accomplished during the interview as well as a test would

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    more ape than man timmhaan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slvoid
    Yes, it's absolutely legal but make sure they administer the test fairly. Also, is this a real IQ test and not some kind of proficiency test? It seems kinda shady to only use an IQ test.
    perhaps i should explain. a friend of mine was fired from a job recently. it was all on good terms at the beginning...he was on probabtion for the first two weeks, then went on vacation (of which they had agreed to this prior to hiring him). right before the vacation they said that he just wasn't the right fit for the job. they didn't mention anything about performance or anything like that...just that he wasn't quite what they were looking for. this is a PR position so i guess appearance was important.

    anyway, long story short - he recently called the unemployment office to see about collecting unemployment. to his shock the company he worked for labeled him as 'incompentent', which barred him from recieving unemplyment. going back though the records, they had done this to many other people in the past. clearly the guy isn't incompentent, and it's all been corrected with a few phone calls since then, but it seemed shocking to me that someone could be labeled as incompentent without so much as a test or anything.

  8. #8
    Chairman of the Bored catatonic's Avatar
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    That's just a crappy company he worked for...I worked for a few places like that...sadly they were all in the tech industry...so much corruption and shadiness in small tech firms anymore....given it's not all of them, but I've seen far more of it than I think is normal by any means

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    Senior Member DnvrFox's Avatar
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    The more successful claims against unemloyment insurance, the higher the premiums for a business. A business will do just about anything to avoid a claim, and if they provide the right reasons to the state, the claim will not be paid unless the turn down is challenged. That does not mean the reasons are correct. Sounds like your friend and everyone else claimed as "incompetent" need to see a good labor law lawyer. What they are doing is illegal and is resulting in significant damages to your friend and others.

    At least a formal complaint to the state labor agency.

    "Incompetent" is not synonymous with "IQ."

  10. #10
    more ape than man timmhaan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DnvrFox

    "Incompetent" is not synonymous with "IQ."
    oh yeah, i know that. this thread wasn't very organized to begin with. the topic between my friend and the question regarding IQ tests are only loosely connected ideas. i had been thinking about the links between competency, intelligence and discrimination a lot lately after i heard about my friendís ordeal.

  11. #11
    2-Cyl, 1/2 HP @ 90 RPM slvoid's Avatar
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    Man what a crappy company, I'm 99% sure they did that just to keep your friend from getting unemployment.
    While it's loosely related, I heard somewhere that if a company calls your previous employer for references that they can either say something good or not say anything at all because anything negative they say might be construded as slander.

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    more ape than man timmhaan's Avatar
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    i read an article about getting hired for microsoft and how the applicants had to do lots of laterial thinking puzzles and tests. not directly related to the job either. many of them were timed and the people had to be prepared to discuss alternate ways to come up with an answer. for example, i think one of the questions was: how would you estimate the number of stop lights in manhattan? the next question was: what is another way you could estimate the number of stop lights in manhattan? etc... and on and on. this, to me, is pretty much the equalivant of an IQ test. at least as far as problem solving goes.

  13. #13
    Senior Member gilby's Avatar
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    I've known of employers who require applicants to take a personality test. It's not so much about IQ as it is about work style and whether one "plays well with others."

    Employers can and will claim a former employee's reason for leaving is different than the employee's actual reason for leaving to avoid unemployment liability, but this can be fought in court, at which point they'll have to present actual evidence. Employers do it so their taxes won't go up. Not really a big deal unless they have a lot of claims filed.

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    If he's feeling like he was injured, he should go to the Human Rights Commission and file a complain through them against the company.

    Koffee

  15. #15
    Senior Member skydive69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timmhaan
    i read an article about getting hired for microsoft and how the applicants had to do lots of laterial thinking puzzles and tests. not directly related to the job either. many of them were timed and the people had to be prepared to discuss alternate ways to come up with an answer. for example, i think one of the questions was: how would you estimate the number of stop lights in manhattan? the next question was: what is another way you could estimate the number of stop lights in manhattan? etc... and on and on. this, to me, is pretty much the equalivant of an IQ test. at least as far as problem solving goes.
    There is a book on the subject of the Microsoft interview questions - I have it, but the name escapes me. My son works for them, and yes, he underwent considerable lateral thinking puzzle testing. They want people who can think out of the box and hopefully contribute something rather than just following orders. They have a cadre of incredibly intelligent employees, and they don't insult their intelligence with arbitrary rules. For example, the only dress requirement is the need to wear shoes. You can wear shorts, and not shave. It makes for a creative, relaxed, productive environment.
    www.brokennecktobrokenrecords.com

  16. #16
    more ape than man timmhaan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skydive69
    There is a book on the subject of the Microsoft interview questions - I have it, but the name escapes me.
    if you come across it again, let me know the name of it. i'd like to read it sometime.

  17. #17
    Senior Member DnvrFox's Avatar
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    If you come across it again, let me know the name of it. i'd like to read it sometime.
    Okay, I used my intelligence and my problem solving ability and came upon this in a Google Search.

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...00847?v=glance

    My stopwatch time was 4 seconds.

    Am I hired?

    I have placed the answer in fine print below so as to not give it away.






















    (Answer: How Would You Move Mount Fuji: Microsoft's Cult of the Puzzle)

  18. #18
    more ape than man timmhaan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DnvrFox

    Am I hired?
    you got the job!! now, your first task is to fetch me a sandwich and a coffee. i'll wait here.

  19. #19
    Senior Member DnvrFox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timmhaan
    you got the job!! now, your first task is to fetch me a sandwich and a coffee. i'll wait here.
    And you are going to trust eating that sandwich and drinking that coffee? Hmm!

  20. #20
    Senior Member skydive69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timmhaan
    if you come across it again, let me know the name of it. i'd like to read it sometime.
    I have it somewhere in my house, but I am out of town at the moment. I will look when I get back. It is a fascinating book.
    www.brokennecktobrokenrecords.com

  21. #21
    Senior Member DieselDan's Avatar
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    When your interviewing someone for a job, you ask questions that lead you to the interviewee's IQ. You check the application for completness, neatness, and accuracy. In fact, any employer worth his/her salt does this. This type of discrimation is legal, as you're selecting someone based on his/her ablities.
    Bikes use brakes to stop.

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