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Old 10-04-11, 05:16 PM   #1
RubenX 
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Foo, a dear friend of mine needs some serious help...

This is a longish post but I spent quite some time making it and I would really apretiate if you can read it and provide some input/comments/sugestions. I have a friend in trouble and he *really* needs direction on what to do next.

Here's the situation:

Back In December 2010

My friend had a good paying job at the top of his field which is a very limited field. Positions on that industry are scarce and difficult to get. However, something was going on with the manager. Maybe it was rasism, maybe something else, we don't know. But the manager was setting my friend up for failure by giving him double the proyects as everybody else, canceling his vacations the day before they started, all sort of nasty things.

January 2011

My friend was convinced (and so was I) that the manager was trying to build up a record in order to fire him. Given that the field is a limited one, he can't afford that risk. So he asked for a transfer to another office, 20 miles away. The transfer got approved but the current manager requested a meeting. To this meeting attended the manager of the new aspiring position, the regional director, the current manager and my friend.

The current manager then said that he was heavily understaffed and that my friend was one of the few that could manage a heavy schedule, therefore he was needed there and he opposed to the transfer. The director, based on this, decided to keep my friend where he was.

February

Even tho the manager praised my friend to keep him from getting a transfer, he continued writing him up for the silliest reasons like getting late by 2 minutes (regardless of he worked 6 hours overtime the night before). It was clear to my friend that the only way to save his proffesional record was to resign and get another job elsewhere. He already had a job lined up so he put his 2 weeks notice and left.

March

My friend is feeling great on his new job. This one was an entry level position on a no-name small company with half the pay... but at least he was free of the nasty manager *and* he saved his career (or so he thought).

Two weeks into the new job he gets terminated. The new boss claimed that bussiness was slow and he had to be let go. That explanation sounded fishy but off he went into the job market.

October

Months have past, my friend was still unemployed. He has go to numerous interviews (common) and even sent to drug testing prior to being hired (uncommon). But there is always a phone call just before the starting date saying that they choose somebody else.

And today he received a call that confirmed what we suspected. Yet another job where he got interviews, got drug testing and even was sent to mandatory company new-hire training (and got paid for those hours)... received a call from new boss saying they were not going to hire him... because (drum roll here)... they talked to his old job and the nasty manager over there gave really bad references about him.

What now

As it is, his career is pretty much over. It's been months on end of unemployment, his savings (even the 401k) are long gone, his car was repossed, he's living with friends... really bad spot overall.

He told me what happened this morning and I feel like it was happening to me. In fact, I had the same thing happening to me like 20 years ago. It was back in Puerto Rico and I sued and won. But I now nothing about the labor laws here in Florida. I know Florida is a pro-employer state where most of the workers rights get ignored. But come on! There got to be something that my friend could do.

Any comments would be really apreciated.
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Old 10-04-11, 05:28 PM   #2
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Call his old boss for a reference. Tape it. You can tape a call as long ONE side of the party knows it is being taped. You just can't tape everything indiscriminately with a court order. See if old boss says bad stuff.

If so see a lawyer. He may have a civil case.
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Old 10-04-11, 06:04 PM   #3
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Call his old boss for a reference. Tape it. You can tape a call as long ONE side of the party knows it is being taped. You just can't tape everything indiscriminately with a court order. See if old boss says bad stuff.

If so see a lawyer. He may have a civil case.
it is illegal to tape someones conversation without their knowledge in some states.
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Old 10-04-11, 06:34 PM   #4
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It is against California law for an old employer to give any other feedback other than dates of service, type of job performed and pay scale. I know this because I was the hiring person. You might want to check into this to see if something like this is similar in your state.

If so, that ex boss is in big trouble!
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Please dont outsmart the censor. That is a very expensive censor and every time one of you guys outsmart it it makes someone at the home office feel bad. We dont wanna do that. So dont cleverly disguise bad words.
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Old 10-04-11, 06:35 PM   #5
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Have your friend see a lawyer.
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Old 10-04-11, 06:41 PM   #6
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Check these links out, Rube.

http://undercoverlawyer.hubpages.com...Bad-References

http://dr.hotjobs.yahoo.com/answers-...1102808AAvebPJ

http://www.indeed.com/forum/job/lega...-Checks/t44062
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Please dont outsmart the censor. That is a very expensive censor and every time one of you guys outsmart it it makes someone at the home office feel bad. We dont wanna do that. So dont cleverly disguise bad words.
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Old 10-04-11, 07:19 PM   #7
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It is against California law for an old employer to give any other feedback other than dates of service, type of job performed and pay scale. I know this because I was the hiring person. You might want to check into this to see if something like this is similar in your state.

If so, that ex boss is in big trouble!
It's our Company Policy that ONLY our Human Resources department can respond to questions regarding past employee records. Employees / Managers are not allowed to give past employees Letters of Recommendation, or provide recommendations (or negative comments) over the phone. I believe our HR department basically provides the minimal information you pointed out above.
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Old 10-04-11, 07:23 PM   #8
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So you were fired 20 yrs ago in Portable Rico due to race?

We need to have a long talk over a few Sailor Jerrys to iron this out
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Old 10-04-11, 07:23 PM   #9
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Call his old boss for a reference. Tape it. You can tape a call as long ONE side of the party knows it is being taped. You just can't tape everything indiscriminately with a court order. See if old boss says bad stuff.

If so see a lawyer. He may have a civil case.

All a former employer is allowed to say, without risk of libel is whether he's eligible for rehire or not. They can go above and beyond with a good reference, of course, that's beneficial, but the not eligible for rehire is code fo0r "Do Not Hire".
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Old 10-04-11, 07:46 PM   #10
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What goes around, comes around.

The old boss deserves to suffer. Sounds like a nasty piece of work.
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Old 10-04-11, 08:01 PM   #11
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Time to lawyer up, Rube.
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Old 10-04-11, 08:20 PM   #12
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Anyone besides me think Rubes friend may be the problem?
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Old 10-04-11, 08:26 PM   #13
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Our friend Rube as usual has been very cryptic on giving us all the facts on his friend.
Rube is a charitable type guy but does get caught up in the drama a bit.
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Old 10-04-11, 08:29 PM   #14
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I preferred the usual Rubens Car/Beaver Workshop TM..
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Old 10-04-11, 09:12 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Alfster View Post
It's our Company Policy that ONLY our Human Resources department can respond to questions regarding past employee records. Employees / Managers are not allowed to give past employees Letters of Recommendation, or provide recommendations (or negative comments) over the phone. I believe our HR department basically provides the minimal information you pointed out above.
I thought that was ontario law.
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Old 10-04-11, 10:21 PM   #16
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Just FYI, the reality in most states that it is very difficult for a former employee to win a defamation suit against a former employer. You have to be able to establish that the defamatory statements are untrue and they were the proximate cause of not being hired. This can be a difficult standard to prove. Not to mention that these cases are generally not big payoffs even if the employee was to prevail, so many plaintiff lawyers are not eager to take such cases.
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Old 10-05-11, 04:00 AM   #17
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Anyone besides me think Rubes friend may be the problem?
Always two sides to the story.
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Old 10-05-11, 06:46 AM   #18
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Anyone besides me think Rubes friend may be the problem?
Doubt it. First, well, it's my friend and when he screws up he tells me so. Second, he always had 100% in his yearly reviews (and has hard copies) for 6 years... Problems started in late 2010 when the nasty manager assumed position. And 3rd, the whole transfer thing. If I'm in charge of a team with a problematic employee that I'm trying to fire, why deny his transfer? On the contrary, I would help the guy so I could get rid of him faster.

I call him last night to let him know about the links that Siu posted (thx Siu) and got some more details. The new job *did* got generally good references from the old job human resources dept. And before he started the new job training, he did sign a contract, got a badge, employee number etc... he was already hired. It was a few days into the training that the nasty manager himself took the time to call the new job and screw my friend up.

Granted, maybe my friend did something of personal nature that piss off the old manager. But never the less, personal grievances should not interfere with professional behavior.

He'll come later today to use my super duper mega fast internet connection to do some research and try to find a lawyer. I'll let you know how it went.

IMHO, it is not about winning but more about discouraging nasty manager from keeping this up. If the old company has to spend resources and money on a case, the nasty manager's superiors might tell him to let this issue go. Companies like *making* money, not spend it.
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Old 10-05-11, 07:42 AM   #19
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Always two sides to the story.
Three sides...person 1, person 2, and the truth.
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Old 10-05-11, 08:23 AM   #20
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IMHO, it is not about winning but more about discouraging nasty manager from keeping this up. If the old company has to spend resources and money on a case, the nasty manager's superiors might tell him to let this issue go. Companies like *making* money, not spend it.

Not necessarily. The company likely has employment liability practices insurance that provides coverage for these sort of claims. So it is spending the insurance company's money.

It is like my malpractice cases where someone wants to financially punish the hospital or doctor; they get kind of deflated when I point out that the hospital or doctor has insurance, and they are not paying any money out of pocket for the case.
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Old 10-05-11, 08:30 AM   #21
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Not necessarily. The company likely has employment liability practices insurance that provides coverage for these sort of claims. So it is spending the insurance company's money.

It is like my malpractice cases where someone wants to financially punish the hospital or doctor; they get kind of deflated when I point out that the hospital or doctor has insurance, and they are not paying any money out of pocket for the case.
true, but losing lawsuits can raise premiums which will hurt them a little bit and be an annoyance.
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Old 10-05-11, 08:39 AM   #22
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lawyer
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Old 10-05-11, 08:40 AM   #23
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If I'm in charge of a team with a problematic employee that I'm trying to fire, why deny his transfer? On the contrary, I would help the guy so I could get rid of him faster.
I am a manager and am devoted to the company I work for. If I had a problem employee and have started the paperwork to document the reasons behind his pending dismissal I would block a transfer. Why? Because The whole process would have to start over again.

Never happened though. I have been blessed with decent people for the most part.
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Old 10-05-11, 11:37 AM   #24
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Doubt it. First, well, it's my friend and when he screws up he tells me so. Second, he always had 100% in his yearly reviews (and has hard copies) for 6 years... Problems started in late 2010 when the nasty manager assumed position. And 3rd, the whole transfer thing. If I'm in charge of a team with a problematic employee that I'm trying to fire, why deny his transfer? On the contrary, I would help the guy so I could get rid of him faster.

I call him last night to let him know about the links that Siu posted (thx Siu) and got some more details. The new job *did* got generally good references from the old job human resources dept. And before he started the new job training, he did sign a contract, got a badge, employee number etc... he was already hired. It was a few days into the training that the nasty manager himself took the time to call the new job and screw my friend up.

Granted, maybe my friend did something of personal nature that piss off the old manager. But never the less, personal grievances should not interfere with professional behavior.

He'll come later today to use my super duper mega fast internet connection to do some research and try to find a lawyer. I'll let you know how it went.

IMHO, it is not about winning but more about discouraging nasty manager from keeping this up. If the old company has to spend resources and money on a case, the nasty manager's superiors might tell him to let this issue go. Companies like *making* money, not spend it.
Thank you Rubester for giving more complete facts(you're no Perry Mason).
Now we have some of the great minds of the universe working on your case here in Fooland.


Your friend sounds like the perfect employee but was he the guy showing up for work in a leather vest and assless chaps?
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Old 10-05-11, 12:19 PM   #25
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Granted, maybe my friend did something of personal nature that piss off the old manager. But never the less, personal grievances should not interfere with professional behavior.
I must have overlooked this gem.
What did he do that pissed the boss off?
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