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Old 01-03-05, 01:48 PM   #1
michaelyons
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Buying american?????

Before you start in on me or anyone else, I'm not trying to start a fight. I'm just looking for information (not opinions, unless they are very well backed).

A friend of mine works a the lbs and said he got phone call from someone looking for a shrader to presta valve adapter. He proceeded to ask if they were made in the U.S. or in Indonesia, said thank you and hung up. Which kind of mede my friend mad, because he doesn't think that it matters where products are made. I tend to lean towards american made products for obvouis reasons, but am not a radical. I sure wouldn't freak out about where my valve adapters are made. Neither of us have any real information to make our points, and I tried google with limited success. What are the effects negative or posative on this situation.

thanks,
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Old 01-03-05, 02:54 PM   #2
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oh yeah, i'm not just talking about bike parts. But he actually believes that buying stuff from overseas helps our economy in some way.

mike
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Old 01-03-05, 02:54 PM   #3
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I will buy clothes from Sri Lanka (from now on) and other goods from nations I deem "friendly." Not too many USA made products these days...especially shoes. I've tried not to buy stuff from China but it is impossible.
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Old 01-03-05, 03:06 PM   #4
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Levi Strauss recently moved its last USA assembly plant from San Antonio, Texas to communist China. Levi's says it can get young girls to sew in communist China for a bowl of rice and a cot in a barracks. About 300 more Texas families on welfare. I donated my Levi's to Goodwill.
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Old 01-03-05, 03:11 PM   #5
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i try to support US manufacturing whenever feasible. these blue collar jobs are dropping off like crazy along with most of the middle class in this country. i don't see anything wrong with chosing to spend your money inside your own country, if that's important to you.
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Old 01-03-05, 03:33 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehenz
I will buy clothes from Sri Lanka (from now on) and other goods from nations I deem "friendly." Not too many USA made products these days...especially shoes. I've tried not to buy stuff from China but it is impossible.
I just got some sneakers from New Balance that are American made. I found out after I bought them from the label.
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Old 01-03-05, 03:36 PM   #7
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If ones wants to support "american made" as far as bicycles go, the best way to do it is to get a custom-made frame from an American frame builder.
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Old 01-03-05, 04:09 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelyons
oh yeah, i'm not just talking about bike parts. But he actually believes that buying stuff from overseas helps our economy in some way.
This is an incredibly broad and difficult subject that goes beyond economics. We buy so much stuff that the transfer of goods and services overseas allows our (USA) government to have more political control and influence in countries that we do business with than some people and some other governments like.

But I'm guessing you're interested in just the economics?

If we bought only stuff that we produced, then other countries would get pissed and probably not buy our goods. The concept of comparative advantage suggests that each country should focus on what they do best... reducing costs on all products for everyone.

If we kept everything internal, then we'd be forced to make valve adapters -- or whatever products are better suited for antoher country -- which would likely cost end users 2-3x as much.

I can see your eyes glazing over

Bottomline: a global economy is good for everyone.
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Old 01-03-05, 04:21 PM   #9
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There are two sides to the coin. Buying American made products strengthens our economy and helps keep jobs in this country. Buying overseas can be bad in two ways. It takes business away from domestic companies and two you very well can be supporting slave labor. Outsourcing is hurting our economy. Companies are leaving this country and setting up shop overseas to cut costs.

On the flipside you're going to usually save money buying overseas. Personally I go for the better deal because I think money is arbitrary and stupid, but there ya go.
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Old 01-03-05, 04:59 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H23
If ones wants to support "american made" as far as bicycles go, the best way to do it is to get a custom-made frame from an American frame builder.
One does not have to have a custom-made frame to buy an American-made bike frame. There is Cannondale, Litespeed, Merlin, and some Treks. I am sure there are others.
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Old 01-03-05, 05:03 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Jeprox
One does not have to have a custom-made frame to buy an American-made bike frame. There is Cannondale, Litespeed, Merlin, and some Treks. I am sure there are others.
Mosy of the bikes you mentioned above have their frames manufactured in Asia
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Old 01-03-05, 05:32 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by ngateguy
Mosy of the bikes you mentioned above have their frames manufactured in Asia
Why would Cannondale, Litespeed and Merlin bikes still have that "Handmade in the U.S.A." labels on them if they are made in Asia?
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Old 01-03-05, 05:58 PM   #13
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They might have an odd aluminum frame from Asia, maybe, but I know some of the TIG welders from Litespeed, which are built right here.
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Old 01-03-05, 06:50 PM   #14
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For more on the Levi/Walmart deal see http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/77/walmart.html
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Old 01-03-05, 07:17 PM   #15
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ALL Cannondale frames are built in Bedford, PA. That happens to be in the USA.
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Old 01-03-05, 07:22 PM   #16
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Quote:
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Mosy of the bikes you mentioned above have their frames manufactured in Asia

That's why he said "SOME TREKS", come on man
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Old 01-03-05, 08:13 PM   #17
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For more on the Levi/Walmart deal see http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/77/walmart.html
That's an EXTREME example of the negative and not indicative of global economics.

And any company (eg. Vlasic) that spends any time building a brand and loses it buy doing business with the retail wh0re that is W-M deserves to have their brand and reputation ruined. Sleep with a wh0re don't complain about your wang falling off.
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Old 01-03-05, 09:24 PM   #18
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In case anyone is interested....

http://www.usstuff.com/index.htm
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Old 01-03-05, 09:50 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselDan
ALL Cannondale frames are built in Bedford, PA. That happens to be in the USA.

Damn! That's right.

It must be a huge facility. I can't believe I never came across it since I travel through there a lot.

The main street in Bedford has a really nice old-fashioned candy store, highly recommended.
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Old 01-03-05, 09:56 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeprox
One does not have to have a custom-made frame to buy an American-made bike frame. There is Cannondale, Litespeed, Merlin, and some Treks. I am sure there are others.
Yes, you are absolutely right.

Once you get to the price ranges of many American-made bikes, however, it often makes sense to go custom.

Independent Fabrications is my fave, if we are going to start listing American multi-person companies. Also Serotta.
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Old 01-04-05, 01:53 PM   #21
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Quote:
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ALL Cannondale frames are built in Bedford, PA. That happens to be in the USA.
Yes, every single frame Cannondale sells is made in the USA. I was very surprised last week to see the low prices for some Cannondale models. A local bike shop had several Cannondales in-stock selling for between $525 and $595. I do not know how Cannondale can sell such nice bikes at such affordable prices.

The lowest priced Treks with frames made in the USA have "street" prices of around $700 and up. These days, if someone is buying a bike selling for between $50 and $400, it is NOT made in the USA. Some bikes in that price range are made in the Republic of China on Taiwan ( which has free elections, minimum wage laws, and labor unions).

However, most bikes selling for under $400 are made in portions of China that are under communist occupation, where organizing an independent labor union or demanding a free election will earn you a bullet in the back of the head.

I continue to be puzzled by the lack of bikes imported to the USA from Mexico. During the 1970's high quality Windsor bikes, with Reynolds tubing, and Campy components were built in Mexico. There is a large supply of skilled workers living just minutes from the US border. Trek could build the models it currently buys from communist China at a reasonable price in Mexico. A bike built on Monday in Nuevo Laredo could reach a US dealer by Friday. But, even in Mexico, many people are riding on communist made bikes. Very sad.
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Old 01-09-05, 01:45 AM   #22
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most american companies make their products in other countries, so just because it was made it another country does not mean that america is not making money from the sale.
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Old 01-09-05, 04:21 AM   #23
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When I worked at a camera shop about five years ago, we had a customer who only bought Kodak film because he believed in buying American. We always debated whether or not we should have told him that his American film was processed in a machine from New Zeland using Japanese chemicals and printed on German paper.

I believe in buying quality products, preferably from responsible companies, but not necessarily in seeking out American companies specifically. People are people, regardless of nation. I feel no greater responsibility to other Americans than I do, say, workers in Belize. That is not to say I don't feel a responsibility to the American people, but rather that I believe people need to be aware that ethical issues do not begin or end clearly at national borders and inasmuch actually give a crap about the workers in other nations as much as those here. I'll buy from companies I trust, regardless of nation of origin. People doing things the right way deserve support. Period. Screw where they're located if they've got the right idea.
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Old 01-09-05, 04:31 AM   #24
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I've worked in a couple trade unions, and you can ask any one of them about how the games changed. It's no longer as simple as it was in 1980, just buy a Ford and everything will be all right. Actually, look at any labor hall and you'll see Toyotas mixed in among the other cars, because alot of these foreign companies give Americans jobs and vice versa. However, there are still definite guidelines about what to buy and not buy insofar as what hurts US labor and not. Wal Mart-style megacorp capitalism is not good for America in the long run, although there are some crumbs to be had from the master's table.
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