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Thread: Evil evil sugar

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    Evil evil sugar

    i always wonder why anyone would drink or eat some chemical over real sugar.Another thing i wonder is why sunny d is so poplar .What is wrong with a orange drink made of just oranges?

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    Pedaled too far. Artkansas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by windhchaser View Post
    i always wonder why anyone would drink or eat some chemical over real sugar.Another thing i wonder is why sunny d is so poplar .What is wrong with a orange drink made of just oranges?
    Those chemicals are cheaper than oranges. But they have what we crave, sweet!
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    That must be it.I can tear up some real oj used to get it for 3 bucks a gallon hect in fla i just grab the oranges from back yard and a grapefruit best drink ever

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    If I'm going to drink a soft drink I drink a real coke, not diet. When I want orange juice I buy real orange juice. If I want to save calories I drink water, and not fancy pants expensive water out of a little bottle. My house has lots of faucets and that is fine with me.

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    Can't patent a plant. Plus, market to an idiotic American public (I know that's redundant) and wala-->profit. (See sucralose--aka Splenda, aspartame--aka Nutrasweet, and HFCS).
    No really, the FDA is looking out for our best interests

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    We did have a thread about Olestra recently...
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    Caustic Soccer Mom apclassic9's Avatar
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    sugar turns to fat in your body... so do all the sugar "substitutes"... except for that steevia stuff
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    Riding Heaven's Highways on the grand tour ModoVincere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by windhchaser View Post
    i always wonder why anyone would drink or eat some chemical over real sugar.Another thing i wonder is why sunny d is so poplar .What is wrong with a orange drink made of just oranges?
    I'm a diabetic....there's enough sugar in regular old food, don't need any additional sugar. So those chemicals allow me to enjoy a sweet flavor once in a while without shooting my blood sugars through the roof.
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    Senior Member The_DK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apclassic9 View Post
    sugar turns to fat in your body... so do all the sugar "substitutes"... except for that steevia stuff


    you mean like aspartame? aspartame doesn't turn into fat. Sugar doesn't automatically turn into fat either, unless you're eating too much of it. But so do other carbohydrates and protein.
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    Riding Heaven's Highways on the grand tour ModoVincere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apclassic9 View Post
    sugar turns to fat in your body... so do all the sugar "substitutes"... except for that steevia stuff
    you might want to think about that one.
    Splenda (sucralose) doesn't get absorbed....how does it turn to fat in the body?
    Aspartame is a molecule comprised of two amino acids....it's basically a very very short protein, and is so sweet that the amount used has practically zero calories. How is that going to turn into fat?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ModoVincere View Post
    you might want to think about that one.
    Splenda (sucralose) doesn't get absorbed....how does it turn to fat in the body?
    Aspartame is a molecule comprised of two amino acids....it's basically a very very short protein, and is so sweet that the amount used has practically zero calories. How is that going to turn into fat?
    Certainly not directly since, as you point out, there are very few calories in the artificial sweeteners. But there are quite a number of studies that showed an association between use of these sweeteners and weight gain. One is at:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2892765/

    I've also read a study (but have lost the cite) where college students were randomly assigned to two groups - one agreed to only drink diet drinks while the other agreed to only drink sugared drinks at all meals. Both groups ate at the college cafeteria and were free to take whatever food they wanted but all of their food and beverage intake was carefully monitored. The conclusion of the study was that the group drinking the artificially sweetened drinks actually consumed more calories (and gained more weight) than the group drinking the sugared drinks. Sure the first group had far fewer calories from the drinks, but they more than made up for that by going back for more second helpings, eating more desserts, etc. The researchers concluded that the sweetness in the drinks stimulated the body to expect an influx of sugar and the body responded with insulin production and other physiological changes. When the expected sugar didn't arrive this led to increased hunger sensations and the students responded by eating more food - especially food with a high sugar content.

    Another factor is that we can get habituated to flavors that we consume frequently. So after a sustained diet with lots of sweet tastes (from either sugar or the calorie-free substitutes), we tend to want even more sweet tastes in the food we eat and therefore crave foods with those tastes - many of which will have lots of calories.

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    Riding Heaven's Highways on the grand tour ModoVincere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prathmann View Post
    Certainly not directly since, as you point out, there are very few calories in the artificial sweeteners. But there are quite a number of studies that showed an association between use of these sweeteners and weight gain. One is at:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2892765/

    I've also read a study (but have lost the cite) where college students were randomly assigned to two groups - one agreed to only drink diet drinks while the other agreed to only drink sugared drinks at all meals. Both groups ate at the college cafeteria and were free to take whatever food they wanted but all of their food and beverage intake was carefully monitored. The conclusion of the study was that the group drinking the artificially sweetened drinks actually consumed more calories (and gained more weight) than the group drinking the sugared drinks. Sure the first group had far fewer calories from the drinks, but they more than made up for that by going back for more second helpings, eating more desserts, etc. The researchers concluded that the sweetness in the drinks stimulated the body to expect an influx of sugar and the body responded with insulin production and other physiological changes. When the expected sugar didn't arrive this led to increased hunger sensations and the students responded by eating more food - especially food with a high sugar content.

    Another factor is that we can get habituated to flavors that we consume frequently. So after a sustained diet with lots of sweet tastes (from either sugar or the calorie-free substitutes), we tend to want even more sweet tastes in the food we eat and therefore crave foods with those tastes - many of which will have lots of calories.
    Which is different than what you said in the post I'm quoting below.
    Quote Originally Posted by apclassic9 View Post
    sugar turns to fat in your body... so do all the sugar "substitutes"... except for that steevia stuff
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    Quote Originally Posted by ModoVincere View Post
    Which is different than what you said in the post I'm quoting below.
    Why are you claiming that *I* said something and then posting a quote from someone else?

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    Where's my pirates and global warming graph when I need it?
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    Riding Heaven's Highways on the grand tour ModoVincere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prathmann View Post
    Why are you claiming that *I* said something and then posting a quote from someone else?
    whoops...sorry, I did a quick drive by post....but it is different than what ap said.
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    Quote Originally Posted by skijor View Post
    Can't patent a plant. Plus, market to an idiotic American public (I know that's redundant) and wala-->profit. (See sucralose--aka Splenda, aspartame--aka Nutrasweet, and HFCS).
    No really, the FDA is looking out for our best interests
    You are so, so, so wrong about this, that it is almost scary.

    Plant rights are what will end up cornering the world's food supplies to a few mega-companies if they are allowed to get away with it.

    Think about the law suits that have already been done and won by big companies that have gene-modified crops such as canola.

    And my former employer successfully sued an orchardist for hundreds of thousands of dollars (as in verging on a million) for stealing, based on the grower planting trees that were propagated from plants originally supplied by my ex-boss (ie, scions were cut from the original trees and transplanted on to cheap rootstock).

    You think copyright for music, art and writing is a warzone, the stakes are much higher in the food industry.

    Most of the fruit and vegetables in the supermarkets you see that go by the simple names of celery, apples, cherries, carrots and so on, have varietal names attached to them. The rights to those varieties channel back to an owner somewhere, whether it's the seed or otherwise.

    The only way to escape is to use cuttings or seed propogated from age-old varieties, but then they don't keep particularly well between picking and getting to market, and their yields are probably much lower, and they won't grow in anything but the right conditions, even though the overall quality and taste off the tree are probably better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
    You are so, so, so wrong about this, that it is almost scary.

    Plant rights are what will end up cornering the world's food supplies to a few mega-companies if they are allowed to get away with it.

    Think about the law suits that have already been done and won by big companies that have gene-modified crops such as canola.

    And my former employer successfully sued an orchardist for hundreds of thousands of dollars (as in verging on a million) for stealing, based on the grower planting trees that were propagated from plants originally supplied by my ex-boss (ie, scions were cut from the original trees and transplanted on to cheap rootstock).

    You think copyright for music, art and writing is a warzone, the stakes are much higher in the food industry.

    Most of the fruit and vegetables in the supermarkets you see that go by the simple names of celery, apples, cherries, carrots and so on, have varietal names attached to them. The rights to those varieties channel back to an owner somewhere, whether it's the seed or otherwise.

    The only way to escape is to use cuttings or seed propogated from age-old varieties, but then they don't keep particularly well between picking and getting to market, and their yields are probably much lower, and they won't grow in anything but the right conditions, even though the overall quality and taste off the tree are probably better.
    Ok, how about you can't patent a naturally occurring plant? Of course the frankenfoods are a different matter. Those never would've occurred naturally.

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    Pedaled too far. Artkansas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_DK View Post
    you mean like aspartame? aspartame doesn't turn into fat.
    I suspect they were thinking of HFCS, the leading sugar substitute. Fructose turns into fat just about faster than anything.
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    Riding Heaven's Highways on the grand tour ModoVincere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artkansas View Post
    I suspect they were thinking of HFCS, the leading sugar substitute. Fructose turns into fat just about faster than anything.
    And yet, HFCS is sugar....
    It's not sucrose, but sugar is more than just sucrose (table sugar....which is actually two sugars...glucose and fructose).
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    Quote Originally Posted by skijor View Post
    Ok, how about you can't patent a naturally occurring plant? Of course the frankenfoods are a different matter. Those never would've occurred naturally.
    You don't quite get it.

    You cross-breed two plants that occur naturally to produce a certain type of fruit, which could conceivably happen in nature, and you can register it for plant rights. It's just that you have short-tracked the natural process by cross-pollinating certain varieties to produce another. Nature has dealt with the genetic issues.

    These plants I am talking about aren't frankenfoods as might be the description for the ones like canola in which the gene has been altered deliberately by human intervention.

    All those grapes that make your wine, all those apples on those trees, all those potatoes -- in fact, just about any fresh food that you buy and eat is making someone wealthy at the other end of the line because they own the rights to that plant. Much like the music you listen to.
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    So what about ace-K?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
    You don't quite get it.

    You cross-breed two plants that occur naturally to produce a certain type of fruit, which could conceivably happen in nature, and you can register it for plant rights. It's just that you have short-tracked the natural process by cross-pollinating certain varieties to produce another. Nature has dealt with the genetic issues.

    These plants I am talking about aren't frankenfoods as might be the description for the ones like canola in which the gene has been altered deliberately by human intervention.

    All those grapes that make your wine, all those apples on those trees, all those potatoes -- in fact, just about any fresh food that you buy and eat is making someone wealthy at the other end of the line because they own the rights to that plant. Much like the music you listen to.
    Yes, I get it. I just didn't realize that the more plausibly naturally occurring results were patentable. I suspect the legal aspects of this vary greatly...especially in Europe. I realize man has toyed with plants and animals for thousands of years to obtain more practical and tasty animals/plants.

    Stevia is a better example of what I was thinking of. Products that contain stevia are marketed and sold under a name that sounds like that word so those of us that know of its advantages make the connection. But what we're getting isn't typical stevia. And that may be because stevia, as it's grown today, has not been patented...or because the folks who grew that "new" product tweaked the plant just enough to make it dissimilar enough to earn a patent, yet retain its use as an economical sugar alternative.

    From their FAQ:
    "******* isolated the best tasting part of the plant Rebaudiside A (one of nine glycocisdes within stevia) to develop rebiana"
    Last edited by skijor; 09-03-12 at 08:29 AM. Reason: clarification, I hope

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    I asked whether anyone knew about ace-K because that is a substance that apparently Pepsi is looking to use in its diet and Max cola varieties.

    It seems that aspartame breaks down in sunlight and heat, as anyone who has ridden a bike with it on board will know -- the taste goes right off.

    ace-K is an abbreviation of acesulfame potassium which is said to be 200 times sweeter than table sugar but one-third that of sucralose. It is less sensitive to being broken down in light.
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    Chepooka StupidlyBrave's Avatar
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    In regards to genetically modified plants... I hiked some part of the Florida trail a while back and encountered a wild Orange tree. The fruit was juicy, but not the least bit sweet.

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    Riding Heaven's Highways on the grand tour ModoVincere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
    I asked whether anyone knew about ace-K because that is a substance that apparently Pepsi is looking to use in its diet and Max cola varieties.

    It seems that aspartame breaks down in sunlight and heat, as anyone who has ridden a bike with it on board will know -- the taste goes right off.

    ace-K is an abbreviation of acesulfame potassium which is said to be 200 times sweeter than table sugar but one-third that of sucralose. It is less sensitive to being broken down in light.
    It is used for "sugar free" baked products, so is heat stable.
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