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Old 02-21-05, 10:42 PM   #1
Jamie
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I think this is called a RANT..

I know there have been pet peeve threads that went on forever and ever. This is not a pet peeve thread. It is more a rant and a question for forum members.

I have a friend who has a boyfriend who lies to her constantly. Sometimes it is about big things, but more often it is just little things. What are those little lies called?

My question for the fellows is this: is it ever right to lie to the woman you are supposed to love, be it girlfriend or spouse? What happens to you if you get caught in a lie by your ladyfriend or wife, even just a little, inconsequential lie? Whatever happened to being truthful?
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Old 02-21-05, 10:46 PM   #2
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Trust is earned, once lost, it's almost never regained fully. Hard, if not impossible, to love without trust. Basic ingredient.
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Old 02-21-05, 11:02 PM   #3
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I have never been a believer that truth is always best. Sometimes a lie is needed to protect the person and or just make something a surprise.

Sounds like the guy in question, though, is a lier and isn't doing it for the girl in any way.
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Old 02-21-05, 11:10 PM   #4
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She isn't dating my roomate by any chance, is she? If someone can't be honest with me, I don't want anything to do with them. I HATE lies, more than anything on this earth, and I don't trust many people because of lies that I have been told, some big, some small. The only time lying is acceptable is in the case of surprises, I.E, "No, I'm not coming home until tomorrow", when you are really right by their house. That is a little white lie that causes no harm. It sounds like this relationship is on the express lane to nowhere, and should be ended before it gets worse. Make sure you tell her that not all guys are assh*les!
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Old 02-21-05, 11:16 PM   #5
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Those little lies are a white lie if they're not intended to do much harm. Well.. the key word is intended, sometimes well, you know what they say about good intentions.

I always try to tell the truth basically because it's easier. If someone asks me something, I'll let them know, it's just plain easier, especially if it's to someone you love, you never want to hide anything from them. Trust takes a lifetime to build and is very painful when it's broken. Trust in someone is something that makes you comfortable when you're with someone, that you can fall back on, that let's you know you always have someone to come home to, that keeps you in check with reality so you can keep the safety on on the 9mm under the pillow. And yeah, it sucks when you find out you can no longer trust anyone. And the longer you drag out the lie, the worse it is. So unless you want to get capped in the dome by your lover while you're asleep, the best thing to do is to tell the truth.

I see this a lot, a lot of girls, especially young girls, are so disillusioned that they'll stay with a guy no matter what. It's painful to see and even harder to understand.
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Old 02-22-05, 12:35 AM   #6
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i think what makes a lie is what you're lying about. it's not so much that you are lying -- it's WHY you're lying.
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Old 02-22-05, 01:12 AM   #7
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I agree with the other posters in this thread. Depends whatpeople are lying about. If they are lying to surprise someone now then it's ok, as long as it's a good surprise of course.

On the other hand if every other thing that comes out of you're mouth is complete BS, thats bad. Like Shifty said, the main ingredient of love is trust.
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Old 02-22-05, 03:48 AM   #8
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Habitual lying is a form of control based on a fragile ego. It's a clear sign of weakness and the only way to cover it up is through deception. The question to ask is not whether lying is right or wrong, but why does your girlfriend choose to be in a relationship based on lies?
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Old 02-22-05, 04:22 AM   #9
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Why not dump the guy? Also, if your friend is one of those people who habitually dates scum, then instead of asking"Why are all men scum?", a more constructive question would be "What criteria of mine keeps landing me these losers". If you land a bad apple every now and again, dump them, move on, that's life. If bad apples are ALL you ever choose, then YOU are the one doing something wrong. I wish your friend,(or you, if that's who it really is,) the best of luck.
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Old 02-22-05, 05:15 AM   #10
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"Honesty is the best policy." I can't tell you how many times I've heard that in my lifetime. After about the 10,000th time it started making sense. Now my kids hear it from me. We all tell lies, but it sounds like this guy is a loser and she should tell him to get lost -- or have her turn the table on him and start telling him lie after lie. Once he catches on she can ask him how it felt to be on the receiving end.
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Old 02-22-05, 06:04 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trekkie820
The only time lying is acceptable is in the case of surprises, I.E, "No, I'm not coming home until tomorrow", when you are really right by their house.

... and there's a strange (not yours) car in the driveway, a candle golw from the bedroom window, you quietly enter the house and climb the stairs and find him in the sack with some bimbo from the office. Yup, no one gets hurt there!



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Make sure you tell her that not all guys are assh*les!

Exactly, some are ****** bags.
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Old 02-22-05, 06:10 AM   #12
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Let's not turn this into a "gun thread"!
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Old 02-22-05, 06:14 AM   #13
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Let's not turn this into a "gun thread"!
Poll: Who here lies while on their bike?

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Old 02-22-05, 06:40 AM   #14
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Sometimes you just can't tell her that she really does look fat in that dress....
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Old 02-22-05, 06:45 AM   #15
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Shifty, I am with you. Trust is the basic ingredient that all lovers should hold. Once lost, you would THINK that the love would then be lost.

Supposedly, most of the time his "white lies" are told to "keep from hurting her" or "to avoid a confrontation". What he doesn't understand is that the hurt and the confrontations occur because of the LIES, not because of the things he is lying about.

Trekkie820, my friend is like you, she hates lies. Why she has stayed with the guy for years now is beyond me, because she has caught him in so many lies, some he doesn't even know that she knows about.



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Sometimes you just can't tell her that she really does look fat in that dress....
What is the old saying? If you don't want to hear the answer, then don't ask the question?
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Old 02-22-05, 06:47 AM   #16
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personally, i think it's too easy to be too rigid with the truth. while i agree that conscious deception, particulatly malicious deception, can be dangerous and damaging, most lies aren't like that. mosgt of the time, we elaborate the "truth," bend it slightly for the sake of convenience. even more often, what two people believe to be true can be two slightly or completely different truths.

so what are the lies your friend's boyfriend is telling? has he embelleshed his biography and smoothed out the rough bits to make it a better story? has he "lied by omission," keeping information from her that he doesn't think she needs? has he fibbed a bit to get out of the duty of sunday night dinner with her parents?

it's all in the context. if you expect absolute, uncompromising and complete truth from someone, you will always be disappointed. there is no such thing as absolute, uncompromising and complete truth.
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Old 02-22-05, 06:56 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by velocipedio
personally, i think it's too easy to be too rigid with the truth. while i agree that conscious deception, particulatly malicious deception, can be dangerous and damaging, most lies aren't like that. mosgt of the time, we elaborate the "truth," bend it slightly for the sake of convenience. even more often, what two people believe to be true can be two slightly or completely different truths.

so what are the lies your friend's boyfriend is telling? has he embelleshed his biography and smoothed out the rough bits to make it a better story? has he "lied by omission," keeping information from her that he doesn't think she needs? has he fibbed a bit to get out of the duty of sunday night dinner with her parents?

it's all in the context. if you expect absolute, uncompromising and complete truth from someone, you will always be disappointed. there is no such thing as absolute, uncompromising and complete truth.
Lies by omission is a biggie. He simply doesn't tell her all of something when she asks. But who is to say what information she needs?

If she asks who he went somewhere with, making conversation, and he tells her one person but it was really some foxy blond woman, THAT is an out and out lie. And he does this all the time.

He is doing something right now that will be the downfall of their relationship anyway, so maybe the relationship won't last much longer. I am staying out it. He is digging his own hole.
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Old 02-22-05, 07:10 AM   #18
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jamie... well, it sounds like the problem with this guy isn't the lies so much, but the tomcatting around. no telling his girlfriend that he bought himself a new ipod is one thing; covering up his extracurricular activities is another thing...

but even then: what is the nature of their relationship? and was he innocently with this foxy blond woman because she just happened to be hanging with a mutual friend? did he keep that to himself because i knew his girlfriend would jump to the wrong conclusions? maybe he has a good, platonic friendship with the fox and knows that his girlfriend just doesn't understand. i do know of women how have insisted that their men cut off all ties with their platonic female friends.

i'm not defending this guy. the point i'm trying to make is that there's a hell of a lot more grey than black or white. if he's lying to cover up his fooling around, then he's a prick. i've done that in my life. it was stupid and malicious, and i will regret it for the rest of my life.

on the other hand, if he's bending the truth and not disclosing everything not to be malicious, but because he doesn't have another option, that's something else.
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Old 02-22-05, 07:31 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by velocipedio
jamie... well, it sounds like the problem with this guy isn't the lies so much, but the tomcatting around. no telling his girlfriend that he bought himself a new ipod is one thing; covering up his extracurricular activities is another thing...

but even then: what is the nature of their relationship? and was he innocently with this foxy blond woman because she just happened to be hanging with a mutual friend? did he keep that to himself because i knew his girlfriend would jump to the wrong conclusions? maybe he has a good, platonic friendship with the fox and knows that his girlfriend just doesn't understand. i do know of women how have insisted that their men cut off all ties with their platonic female friends.

i'm not defending this guy. the point i'm trying to make is that there's a hell of a lot more grey than black or white. if he's lying to cover up his fooling around, then he's a prick. i've done that in my life. it was stupid and malicious, and i will regret it for the rest of my life.

on the other hand, if he's bending the truth and not disclosing everything not to be malicious, but because he doesn't have another option, that's something else.
To tell you the truth, I have no idea what the relationship with the other woman is, perhaps just an "office friendship", since they work together. But I know this guy. And the way the office friendship is escalating, it will turn to something else before long. But that will be a GOOD thing, my friend will be rid of the bum and can find herself someone who is true to her and doesn't feel like he has to lie. As I said, I am now staying out of it. I just hate to see her hurt. She is a good person. (Truth be told, he is too, just has that problem with telling the truth.)

Now I am shutting up, looking for a new avatar, and going to work. Boss has a huge case coming up and I stay busy, busy.
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Old 02-22-05, 07:39 AM   #20
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Quote:
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Boss has a huge case coming up and I stay busy, busy.
legal assistant? you have my respect and condolences. tough job.
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Old 02-22-05, 08:08 AM   #21
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Lying bad, truth good.
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Old 02-22-05, 08:15 AM   #22
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Jaime, my mother's a legal assistant, and my sister's a lawyer. I myself used to be a runner right out of high school. You have my condolences as well! Since we're talking about dating, don't get involved with lawyers! You'll end up dying young!
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Old 02-22-05, 08:19 AM   #23
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Lying bad, truth good.
not always.
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Old 02-22-05, 09:11 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie
What is the old saying? If you don't want to hear the answer, then don't ask the question?
yes, but there are multiple answer to any question, yeah? This is one of the things that's hard for guys is understanding which answer she's looking for, especially when she's not sure herself.

Typically, when a woman asks if something makes her look too fat -- or in the case of my ex-wife, too skinny -- what she's typically asking is, "do I still look good to you". If she really is asking whether she looks too fat, then she deserves to be lied to cuz you do not put your spouse in that position.
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Old 02-22-05, 09:18 AM   #25
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Come on guys....someone has to admit to lying at least once a day.

I love my girlfriend and all, but it happens. I don't lie about seeing other women or anything huge like that, but I lie about little stuff all the time. The whole "lies by omission" thing is the best thing in the world. I just bought a new frame off of eBay for about $150 shipped, and to me this is a great deal, but to her I'm just a moron wasting my money (which is not true, because my current frame is a little too big and I'm going to sell it anyway). So is it really all that bad if she doesn't know about it? It saves her the trouble of whining about it and it saves me the trouble of having to listen to that crap. And in the end when I sell my current frame for more than $150 I won't seem like such a bad guy anymore.

Sometimes you get questions like "Wasn't that fun" or "Do you want to ____," and it's often better to say yes to make her feel good. I'm OK with her doing the same thing to me. I'd rather hear a lie about how the Pacer game really was exciting than hear her go on about how boring basketball is.

Think about it....do you really want to know everything? Some things you're better off not knowing.

Don't get me wrong.....We shouldn't lie about important things.
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