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Thread: XC Skiers Only

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    XC Skiers Only

    Got a new pair of Fischer BC waxable skis with NNN bindings.

    I have put them away for now and am using my 35 year old Bonna skis and Alpina boots with 75mm bindings because they work better.

    The new skis don't track well at all. I can break trail just fine, but anytime I retrace my tracks these things constantly and consistently "wander" out of the tracks. They slide off the tracks side to side when in groomed tracks. Takes the fun out of groomed trail skiing.

    Board width is no different than the Bonna skis.

    It is the boards, bindings/boots, or me?

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    I only ski waxless (and if we don't get out of this snow/thaw cycle I may never get to ski again) so take my thoughts with the appropriate number of grains of salt....

    1) Any difference in wax you are using between the two pairs of skis? Possibly not getting enough "grip" and getting too much "glide" with the new skis.
    2) Are new boots sturdier/higher on the ankle? Could be getting more stability with them and need to alter stride to avoid any skating effect (I'm assuming you are skiing classic style).

    Like I said - just my $.02 worth....

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    I'm not very experienced in these matters but that will not prevent me from offering ideas. Many of the newer dual purpose skis, that is, cross country/ down hill, (XCD) have enough sidecut that they do not easily hold a straight line. There is a range of such skis. At one end of that range, the skis are fairly narrow with a bit of side cut and will track well. At the other end of the range, the skis will be wide enough under foot to work modestly well in deeper powder, will have more sidecut to make turns with. While still considered XCD, these will not track well. Each ski in the range of XCD will work best for some particular condition.

    I have a pair of Atomic Rainiers, sidecut of 88-68-78. This ski turns very well, even on icy conditions but does not tour well on flat trails. My new skis, which I tried for the first time last week on fire road trails at a nearby state forrest, worked beautifully, tracking well with a good glide. I have not tried it on any hills yet and thus, don't know how they turn. I will likey at some point take the new skis to a ski resort to check out down hill performance. This ski is the Madshus Eon 82-62-70.

    My guess id your skis will turn well and with all metal edges, will turn well even on icy tracks, but will do less well in kick and glide where the goal is to cover distance. Your ski probably will be at it's best where there is a lot of up and down in the trail where to control speed you need to do turns.

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    By 75 mm bindings are you referring to the 3-pin NN type? Is the binding wider than the board? Could be your old bindings limit sideways movement in groomed track more than the narrower modern NNN type binding. Years ago when I got back into groomed track skiing, first thing I noticed was my old 3-pin bindings were almost too wide for the modern groomed track.
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    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    College outdoor program in Eugene rented gear , I found warped skis with a twist in them
    dont want to track well at all. .. 30+years ago..

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    I downhill a lot (well, when there's snow ... not so much this year), but haven't XC skied. I don't have an answer for you, but I have a question.

    I've often thought I'd really enjoy XC for the same reasons I love cycling. Faster than walking, lots of exercise, outdoors where I wanna be. I've often thought they'd push the same buttons. Do you find them to be similar ... ie ... scratching the same itch?
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    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    Pretty much , but XC ski touring involves a lot more Arms and Shoulders.

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    Formerly Known as Newbie Juha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biker395 View Post
    Do you find them to be similar ... ie ... scratching the same itch?
    Yes. Paddling is another similar activity, I've noticed many people who bike and XC ski also enjoy touring with kayaks / canoes.
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    Senior Member Terex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by berner View Post
    I'm not very experienced in these matters but that will not prevent me from offering ideas. Many of the newer dual purpose skis, that is, cross country/ down hill, (XCD) have enough sidecut that they do not easily hold a straight line. There is a range of such skis. At one end of that range, the skis are fairly narrow with a bit of side cut and will track well. At the other end of the range, the skis will be wide enough under foot to work modestly well in deeper powder, will have more sidecut to make turns with. While still considered XCD, these will not track well. Each ski in the range of XCD will work best for some particular condition.

    I have a pair of Atomic Rainiers, sidecut of 88-68-78. This ski turns very well, even on icy conditions but does not tour well on flat trails. My new skis, which I tried for the first time last week on fire road trails at a nearby state forrest, worked beautifully, tracking well with a good glide. I have not tried it on any hills yet and thus, don't know how they turn. I will likey at some point take the new skis to a ski resort to check out down hill performance. This ski is the Madshus Eon 82-62-70.

    My guess id your skis will turn well and with all metal edges, will turn well even on icy tracks, but will do less well in kick and glide where the goal is to cover distance. Your ski probably will be at it's best where there is a lot of up and down in the trail where to control speed you need to do turns.
    This. The BC has a 60-52-57 sidecut and appears to be a ski for use on prepared terrain in icy conditions. Gives confidence on icy, downhill turns to newer skiers using them for recreational touring. Not a true backcountry ski, and not super glide-y, but like Berner says, a nice ski to take to the local, hilly park for a few laps.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biker395 View Post
    I've often thought I'd really enjoy XC for the same reasons I love cycling. Faster than walking, lots of exercise, outdoors where I wanna be. I've often thought they'd push the same buttons. Do you find them to be similar ... ie ... scratching the same itch?
    I find it more like running. It does scratch the itch to spend money on better equipment that won't really help all that much!

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    Have bike, will travel Barrettscv's Avatar
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    The thread has been moved to Foo. If we had a Nordic Skiing Forum, we would have sent it there.

    The redirect will be valid for 5 days. Members will be able to click the redirect and view & post on the thread from the 50+ Forum without searching.

    Thank you for understanding,

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    Check mounting alignment of one binding, NNN is not as forgiving as pins are. If your binding is slightly off parallel with ski will cause this. It also could be that you need a bit more time to get use to the new outfit.
    Those voices in your head aren't real, but they have some great ideas

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    I think the polyethelene base doesn't track as well as a waxed base.

    XC is the ultimate winter aerobic exercise. On the upcoming Olympics, Watch the racers, they are super fit.

    I love watching the winter Olympics, even the pairs ice dancing because I see Meryl Davis a few times a year.
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    What is foo?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TiHabanero View Post
    What is foo?
    I don't know if there is an answer to that question....

    As far as BC skis tracking well - 1) sidecut differences, as previously mentioned 2) ski construction - I assume that your older skis have a bit more wood in the core than the newer, lighter skis do. the wood really helps with stability 3) I believe 3 pins have much more lateral control than the newer NNN BC system 4) are your older boots stiff leather and possibly a bit taller? the newer gear seems to have greater focus on light weight, which is great for conserving energy on long tours, but sacrifices some stability as a trade off.

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    Is ski length similar to your old ones?
    Same results on varied terrain/trails?
    Do they pull more-so consistently in one direction? for both skis or just one?

    I agree that the new gear is lighter but less forgiving for poorer technique. (Preaching from the choir here since skating is my first love. I usually only classic when I'm too pooped to skate)

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    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biker395 View Post
    I downhill a lot (well, when there's snow ... not so much this year), but haven't XC skied. I don't have an answer for you, but I have a question.

    I've often thought I'd really enjoy XC for the same reasons I love cycling. Faster than walking, lots of exercise, outdoors where I wanna be. I've often thought they'd push the same buttons. Do you find them to be similar ... ie ... scratching the same itch?
    Similar but different buttons for me.

    Most of my cycling has been on road and in groups. xc skiing usually solo.

    And xc skiing I got to freak out anyone else I met. I generally skied with just Rugby shorts on. Still stayed comfortable unless there was wind.

    Starting from where they close Angeles Crest Highway in the winter and following the road is fun. A few miles of rollers then long steady climb. Go til really tired then coast downhill. By the time you are to the rollers again you are rested.

    The views cross country skiing are great and few see them.
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    I've been interested in getting into cross country skiing. How much would it set my wife and I back to get our feet wet in the sport? Or even to try the sport out and keep our feet dry?

    Edit: Did my own research. I can rent some equipment and get a one day pass for $25/each at one of the regional parks in my county.
    Last edited by RPK79; 01-14-14 at 12:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RPK79 View Post
    I've been interested in getting into cross country skiing. How much would it set my wife and I back to get our feet wet in the sport? Or even to try the sport out and keep our feet dry?

    Edit: Did my own research. I can rent some equipment and get a one day pass for $25/each at one of the regional parks in my county.
    Take lessons. Don't overdo it. You're gonna be sore., but stick with it. It's a great supplement to cycling.

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    Taking lessons or having someone show you the basics is a good idea. Should be able to learn in a single outing what you need to know. I taught XC Skiing for several years back when I had time to do those kind of things.
    Got my son out this winter during spring break. Never skied before. Said his back feels much better after skiing for an hour or two.
    Always have told people it is the best form of total body exercise. Really requires developed core strength and good upper body tone.

    The bindings are straight as an arrow, mounted by myself using a jig I have mounted hundreds of pairs with.
    Same 210 length.
    Boots are high tops, my old boots were low cut, just above the ankle.
    If I really concentrate on leg positions, ie, pushing knees to the inside, it works out fairly well, but this shouldn't be. Just drives me nuts. I will sell them next fall as they ain't no fun to use.

    incidentally, I purchased new 75mm boots for the old skis. They are beefy, high top, back country models and work like a charm. I can even use sport socks in them as they keep my feet really warm. Track straight as an arrow, just like the old ones.
    Just may mount spare set of 75mm bindings on the new ones to see if it makes a difference.

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