Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Foo Off-Topic chit chat with no general subject.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-07-14, 12:36 PM   #1
bici_mania
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
bici_mania's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Bikes:
Posts: 708
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
People who changed history but also hated.

I am in a philosophy class and the question was put to me:
consider: What about some (other) examples from history of when bad turned out to be good...?
For example, what about major revolutionary figures in history...
Can you think of any whom were considered bad by their own society but are seen as good by generations (of the very same society) later on?
People who come to mind are MLK, Abraham Lincoln, Winston Churchill. Perhaps the abolitionist John Brown or William Wilberforce but it seems to me there ought to be better examples? My list is narrow.

Can any of you think of someone?
bici_mania is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-14, 12:39 PM   #2
skijor 
on by
 
skijor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Wisconsin
Bikes: Waterford RS-33, Salsa Vaya, Bacchetta Giro 20 ATT
Posts: 926
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 72 Post(s)
Ralph Nader pales in comparison to those you've mentioned. But his efforts have saved countless lives.
skijor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-14, 12:48 PM   #3
bigbenaugust 
always rides with luggage
 
bigbenaugust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: KIGX
Bikes: 2009 Fantom CX, 2012 Fantom Cross Uno, Bakfiets
Posts: 1,995
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
I vote for jsharr.
__________________
--Ben
Carrboro Bike Coalition - putting the "bike" in "CARrboro" :)
2011 Motobecane Fantom Cross Uno, 2009 Motobecane Fantom CX, and a Bakfiets
Previously: 2000 Trek 4500 (2000-2003), 2003 Novara Randonee (2003-2006), 2003 Giant Rainier (2003-2008), 2005 Xootr Swift (2005-2007), 2007 Nashbar 1x9 (2007-2011), 2011 Windsor Shetland (2011-2014), 2008 Citizen Folder (2015)
Non-Bike hardware: Xubuntu / Ubuntu MATE / Mac OS 10.6 / Android 4.4 / CyanogenMod 13
bigbenaugust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-14, 01:04 PM   #4
no motor?
Senior Member
 
no motor?'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Chicagoland
Bikes: Specialized Hardrock
Posts: 5,039
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 139 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbenaugust View Post
I vote for jsharr.
Wait until he gets back from lunch and finds out we've been talking about him. Again.
no motor? is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-14, 01:15 PM   #5
mconlonx 
Nobody
 
mconlonx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 7,356
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1444 Post(s)
Any scientist persecuted by The Church from the 1400-1700s. Copernicus, Descartes come to mind.

Martin Luther. Ghandi.
__________________
I know next to nothing. I am frequently wrong.
mconlonx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-14, 01:17 PM   #6
no motor?
Senior Member
 
no motor?'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Chicagoland
Bikes: Specialized Hardrock
Posts: 5,039
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 139 Post(s)
Tesla.
no motor? is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-14, 01:19 PM   #7
ModoVincere
Riding Heaven's Highways on the grand tour
 
ModoVincere's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 1,675
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Jesus....he was so bad, they crucified him.
His teachings are good.
__________________
1 bronze, 0 silver, 1 gold
ModoVincere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-14, 01:21 PM   #8
Dave Cutter
Senior Member
 
Dave Cutter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: D'uh... I am a Cutter
Bikes: '14 Trek 1.1, '10 Fuji Newest 3.0, '98 Cannondale R500, '88 Trek 360
Posts: 5,474
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 371 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bici_mania View Post
People who come to mind are MLK, Winston Churchill. ...........My list is narrow.
Narrow.... and undocumented. I was alive and don't recall any dislike of ether of these men. What are you using as criteria for "bad"?
Dave Cutter is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-14, 01:35 PM   #9
no motor?
Senior Member
 
no motor?'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Chicagoland
Bikes: Specialized Hardrock
Posts: 5,039
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 139 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
Narrow.... and undocumented. I was alive and don't recall any dislike of ether of these men. What are you using as criteria for "bad"?
Really? I was only a kid when King was assassinated in late 60's, and remember my parents struggling to explain why there were 2 sets of bathrooms in the south then and why so many people didn't think that equal rights for all was a good idea.

And from what I remember about Churchill, his prewar popularity was pretty low and he wouldn't have been so popular without WWII.
no motor? is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-14, 02:37 PM   #10
CbadRider
Administrator
 
CbadRider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: On the bridge with Picard
Bikes: Specialized Allez, Specialized Sirrus
Posts: 5,962
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
I deleted some stuff that is more P&R than Foo. Please try to answer the OP's question and keep the P&R vitriol out of it.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerum 525 View Post
Now get on your cheap bike and give me a double century. You walking can of Crisco!!

Forum Guidelines *click here*
CbadRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-14, 02:49 PM   #11
Zinger
Trek 500 Kid
 
Zinger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Spokane WA
Bikes: '83 Trek 970 road --- '86 Trek 500 road
Posts: 2,521
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 446 Post(s)
Oliver Cromwell
Zinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-14, 02:51 PM   #12
Zinger
Trek 500 Kid
 
Zinger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Spokane WA
Bikes: '83 Trek 970 road --- '86 Trek 500 road
Posts: 2,521
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 446 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
Narrow.... and undocumented. I was alive and don't recall any dislike of ether of these men.
Plenty for MLK when I was growing up. There still is some actually.
Zinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-14, 03:00 PM   #13
chewybrian 
"Florida Man"
 
chewybrian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: East Florida
Bikes: '66 Raleigh Superbe, 80 Nishiki Maxima, 07 Gary Fisher Utopia, 09 Surly LHT
Posts: 1,622
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 186 Post(s)
Darwin
__________________
Campione Del Mondo Immaginario
chewybrian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-14, 03:02 PM   #14
RPK79
Senior Member
 
RPK79's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: SE MN
Bikes: Fuji Roubaix Pro & Fuji Track Classic
Posts: 8,724
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 885 Post(s)
Lloyd Kaufman
RPK79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-14, 03:04 PM   #15
bici_mania
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
bici_mania's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Bikes:
Posts: 708
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
Narrow.... and undocumented. I was alive and don't recall any dislike of ether of these men. What are you using as criteria for "bad"?
This is what makes the question hard, everyone significant in history had supporters and enemies or detractors.

It seems that it is far more easy to find those who started out as loved and then fell out of favor.
bici_mania is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-14, 03:06 PM   #16
bici_mania
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
bici_mania's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Bikes:
Posts: 708
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thank you all very much, great input, thank you for helping get the gears cranking.
bici_mania is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-14, 03:07 PM   #17
no motor?
Senior Member
 
no motor?'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Chicagoland
Bikes: Specialized Hardrock
Posts: 5,039
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 139 Post(s)
Ignaz Semmelweis. He's the one who initiated the practice of handwashing before surgery. He was ridiculed for the idea at the time, and later vindicated.
no motor? is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-14, 03:51 PM   #18
Artkansas 
Pedaled too far.
 
Artkansas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: La Petite Roche
Bikes:
Posts: 12,855
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
George Washington, Ben Franklin, Sam and John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, all bad eggs and so was anyone who knew them. Franklin's son was the only decent one among them.
__________________
"He who serves all, best serves himself" Jack London

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bjforrestal View Post
I don't care if you are on a unicycle, as long as you're not using a motor to get places you get props from me. We're here to support each other. Share ideas, and motivate one another to actually keep doing it.
Artkansas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-14, 03:55 PM   #19
Artkansas 
Pedaled too far.
 
Artkansas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: La Petite Roche
Bikes:
Posts: 12,855
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
Narrow.... and undocumented. I was alive and don't recall any dislike of ether of these men. What are you using as criteria for "bad"?
I guess you didn't live in the south then. MLK was definitely a pariah to many. And WC was not beloved to many before and after WWII.
__________________
"He who serves all, best serves himself" Jack London

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bjforrestal View Post
I don't care if you are on a unicycle, as long as you're not using a motor to get places you get props from me. We're here to support each other. Share ideas, and motivate one another to actually keep doing it.
Artkansas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-14, 04:25 PM   #20
Scooper
Decrepit Member
 
Scooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Francisco California
Bikes: Waterford 953 RS-22
Posts: 10,259
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Lots of scientists whose insights went against prevailing beliefs, and whose works were at first reviled, but then gradually accepted, embraced, and built upon by others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaac Newton to Robert Hooke, 1676
If I have seen further it is by standing on ye sholders of Giants.
__________________
- Stan
Scooper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-14, 04:36 PM   #21
jsharr
You Know!? For Kids!
 
jsharr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Just NW of Richardson Bike Mart
Bikes: '05 Trek 1200 / '90 Trek 8000 / '? Falcon Europa
Posts: 6,157
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Elvis Presley and The Beatles come to mind.
__________________
Are you a registered member? Why not? Click here to register. It's free and only takes 27 seconds! Help out the forums, abide by our community guidelines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by colorider View Post
Phobias are for irrational fears. Fear of junk ripping badgers is perfectly rational. Those things are nasty.
jsharr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-14, 04:58 PM   #22
Dave Cutter
Senior Member
 
Dave Cutter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: D'uh... I am a Cutter
Bikes: '14 Trek 1.1, '10 Fuji Newest 3.0, '98 Cannondale R500, '88 Trek 360
Posts: 5,474
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 371 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bici_mania View Post
..... It seems that it is far more easy to find those who started out as loved and then fell out of favor.
It's a philosophy class. I think the point is that of perception. Famous and infamous... for many is a synonym. There can no black.. if there is no white (with the exception of reflected as opposed to absorbed they can even be descripted as the same). The "key" is in the definition of the word "bad". Is the military that saved thousands by killing hundreds a hero... or violent murder.

Bad.... that is the same as the sound a tree makes when it falls in the forest. Without a human ear to perceive it.... the tree makes no sound.

Don't confuse popularity with beliefs. Many may have hated MLK... if for no other reason than the color of his skin. But no civilized man of the day disliked his values. MLK was never by any known measure... a "bad" man. Nor was WC.

Last edited by Dave Cutter; 02-07-14 at 05:10 PM.
Dave Cutter is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-14, 05:35 PM   #23
bikeguyinvenice
A tiny member
 
bikeguyinvenice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Riverview, Florida, U.S.A.
Bikes: 2013 Specialized Allez
Posts: 202
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I just wonder how the last two president of the U.S. will be remembered.
bikeguyinvenice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-14, 05:53 PM   #24
ahsposo 
Titanic Member
 
ahsposo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Deep in the North Atlantic
Bikes: A Home Built All Rounder, Bianchi 928, Specialized Langster, Dahon Folder
Posts: 7,073
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 411 Post(s)
Justin Beiber.

Oh, wait...

Never mind.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelmatimynagle View Post
i glad turn hobbits
ahsposo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-14, 05:58 PM   #25
jsharr
You Know!? For Kids!
 
jsharr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Just NW of Richardson Bike Mart
Bikes: '05 Trek 1200 / '90 Trek 8000 / '? Falcon Europa
Posts: 6,157
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
It's a philosophy class. I think the point is that of perception. Famous and infamous... for many is a synonym. There can no black.. if there is no white (with the exception of reflected as opposed to absorbed they can even be descripted as the same). The "key" is in the definition of the word "bad". Is the military that saved thousands by killing hundreds a hero... or violent murder.

Bad.... that is the same as the sound a tree makes when it falls in the forest. Without a human ear to perceive it.... the tree makes no sound.

Don't confuse popularity with beliefs. Many may have hated MLK... if for no other reason than the color of his skin. But no civilized man of the day disliked his values. MLK was never by any known measure... a "bad" man. Nor was WC.
I think you are inserting your value system here. Many have other values and hate others due to this. I would say that many hated both men solely for their values.
__________________
Are you a registered member? Why not? Click here to register. It's free and only takes 27 seconds! Help out the forums, abide by our community guidelines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by colorider View Post
Phobias are for irrational fears. Fear of junk ripping badgers is perfectly rational. Those things are nasty.
jsharr is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:51 AM.