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  1. #1
    Out fishing with Annie on his lap, a cigar in one hand and a ginger ale in the other, watching the sunset. Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
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    Intellectual teaser: The Edge of the Universe, The Foo Edition

    OK, we're gonna play a little game. We will stay strictly within the realm of Newtonian Mechanics.

    Posit: An expanding Universe from the zero point, aka "The Big Bang".

    The Mission: Using a Bussard Ramjet drive system, you depart for the edge of the universe. remember, as your velocity (V) approaches light speed (C), your time dilation effect increases and your ship time slows below the rate of sidereal time passage. You experience fewer years than the exterior universe does outside of your bubble. Ship Time will be represented by the Greek lower case letter tau (τ) and sidereal by (T)

    For simplicity of the brain crunch, let's go ahead and place Earth as the physical center of the expanding universe. This is just to fix a position so we have a fixed reference origin. How long will it take you in T(years)? How long in τ(Years)? What is the end ratio of T:τ? Finally, will you ever actually be able to reach the edge of the universe, or are we talking an asymptotic curve of the type of equation where you take the remaining distance and keep dividing in into halves as it descends toward remaining distance being zero, but can never hit zero, even to the distance measured in fractions of the distance traveled in one unit of Planck Time (A theoretical smallest possible measure of a unit of time and indivisible). The distance can be defined as the diameter of a photon, which is the smallest indivisible particle in Newtonian Mechanics. When and how far apart will T and τ diverge.......how many years?
    . “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche

    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant

  2. #2
    Senior Member RoadTire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Stormcrowe View Post
    OK, we're gonna play a little game. We will stay strictly within the realm of Newtonian Mechanics.

    Posit: An expanding Universe from the zero point, aka "The Big Bang".

    The Mission: Using a Bussard Ramjet drive system, ....
    You have been sneaking vintage Larry Niven paperbacks haven't you?
    FB4K - This December, 2014, 5288 kids received bikes for Christmas. For many, it was their first bike, ever. Every bike, new and used, was donated, built, cleaned and repaired. That amounts to well over 10,000 volunteer hours this fall, just in the Twin Cities. Check us out on FaceBook: FB4K.
    Disclaimer: 99% of what I know about cycling I learned on BF. That would make, ummm, 1% experience. And a lot of posts.

  3. #3
    Senior Member RPK79's Avatar
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    Can this be multiple choice? If so I choose C.

  4. #4
    Lost Again gitarzan's Avatar
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    Bussard Ramjet drives suck. Not nearly reliable enough to make it out of the galaxy let alone get the the edge of the universe.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jseis View Post
    Is a ukulele player in a mandolin town and banned from all bars by the chief of police unless he leaves his strings and gravy at the front door.

  5. #5
    BF Avatar Zombie Hunter Jseis's Avatar
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    I can honestly say; "You'll never get there", Occam's Razor cuts both ways, and Newton is dead.

    Can we use a dark matter ramjet?
    Amerika, Land of the Very Brief.

  6. #6
    on by skijor's Avatar
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    Would it be considered cheating if I chatted with my buddy NDT and got back to you?

  7. #7
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    Fortunately, my travels are limited to the stratosphere...

    I know how to get there and back.

  8. #8
    long time visiter Alfster's Avatar
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    I do not recognize the traditional meaning of time, as it is just a man-made concept. I follow my own system for measuring the passing of events. Long story short, the answer is 5.1908 quarks.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Stormcrowe View Post
    We will stay strictly within the realm of Newtonian Mechanics.

    Posit: An expanding Universe from the zero point, aka "The Big Bang".

    The Mission: Using a Bussard Ramjet drive system, you depart for the edge of the universe. remember, as your velocity (V) approaches light speed (C), your time dilation effect increases and your ship time slows below the rate of sidereal time passage. You experience fewer years than the exterior universe does outside of your bubble. Ship Time will be represented by the Greek lower case letter tau (τ) and sidereal by (T)
    There is no "edge of the universe," nor is there a center where you can choose to place the Earth, so the answer is never no matter which clock you use. And if you're staying within the realm of Newtonian mechanics then all clocks are the same.

  10. #10
    derailleurs are overrated bigbenaugust's Avatar
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    Is it bad that I read this as "Intellectual taser..."?
    --Ben
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    2011 Motobecane Fantom Cross Uno, 2009 Motobecane Fantom CX, and a Bakfiets
    Previously: 2000 Trek 4500 (2000-2003), 2003 Novara Randonee (2003-2006), 2003 Giant Rainier (2003-2008), 2005 Xootr Swift (2005-2007), 2007 Nashbar 1x9 (2007-2011), 2011 Windsor Shetland (2011-2014)
    Non-Bike hardware: Arch Linux - openSUSE 13.2 / Mac OS 10.6 - openSUSE Tumbleweed - CyanogenMod 11

  11. #11
    Senior Member Cyclosaurus's Avatar
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    Not sure I understand here. You say "We will stay strictly within the realm of Newtonian Mechanics." Which means to me that we are ignoring relativistic effects such as time dilation. Then you present the problem in relativistic terms. Seems like a trick question.

  12. #12
    Pedaled too far. Artkansas's Avatar
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    My infinite improbability drive makes this a trivial question. Meh!

    "He who serves all, best serves himself" Jack London

    Quote Originally Posted by Bjforrestal View Post
    I don't care if you are on a unicycle, as long as you're not using a motor to get places you get props from me. We're here to support each other. Share ideas, and motivate one another to actually keep doing it.

  13. #13
    Out fishing with Annie on his lap, a cigar in one hand and a ginger ale in the other, watching the sunset. Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclosaurus View Post
    Not sure I understand here. You say "We will stay strictly within the realm of Newtonian Mechanics." Which means to me that we are ignoring relativistic effects such as time dilation. Then you present the problem in relativistic terms. Seems like a trick question.
    poor wording on my part. relativistic effects are known and there is empiric proof via "slippage" in orbit fof a satellite in relation to where it should be and actually is and infinitesimal error creeping ion on atomic clocks as compared to ground vs orbit. The one in orbit develops a noticeable error over time. General Relativity is a development from Newtonian and I am trying, more accurately, to hold to Einstein's view that does not include quantum effect (He hated the QM model).
    . “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche

    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant

  14. #14
    don't try this at home. rm -rf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artkansas View Post
    My infinite improbability drive makes this a trivial question. Meh!
    The Restaurant at the End of the Universe

    "Delay?" [Zaphod] cried. "Have you seen the world outside this ship? It's a wasteland, a desert. Civilization's been and gone, man. There are no lemon-soaked paper napkins on the way from anywhere."

    "The statistical likelihood," continued the autopilot primly, "is that other civilizations will arise. There will one day be lemon-soaked paper napkins. Till then there will be a short delay. Please return to your seat."
    Last edited by rm -rf; 04-19-14 at 09:14 PM.

  15. #15
    don't try this at home. rm -rf's Avatar
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    Since the universe's expansion seems to be accelerating, I don't think you can get to the "edge" at light speed.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Will G's Avatar
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    I thought the answer was 42.
    Flying a jet is no different than riding a bicycle. It's just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will G View Post
    I thought the answer was 42.
    That works.

  18. #18
    Senior Member trackhub's Avatar
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    What happens when I hit the barrier at the edge of the Galaxy?

    "The Universe never did make sense; I suspect it was built on a government contract." Robert A. Heinlein

  19. #19
    on by skijor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alfster View Post
    I do not recognize the traditional meaning of time, as it is just a man-made concept. I follow my own system for measuring the passing of events. Long story short, the answer is 5.1908 quarks.
    Did the JRTs give you the answer? If so, did you remember to divide by 7 for the human answer?

  20. #20
    Senior Member Garfield Cat's Avatar
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    Wait, let me as Dr. Sheldon Cooper.

  21. #21
    Dirty Schwinn-Lover deeth82's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbenaugust View Post
    Is it bad that I read this as "Intellectual taser..."?
    Is the wife spurning your romantic advances again?

    (I read it the same...now I'm wondering if an intellectual taser strictly zaps your brain, as opposed to everything else.)
    Ride what you like, how you like.

  22. #22
    Senior Member no motor?'s Avatar
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    What's the frequency Kenneth?

  23. #23
    your god hates me Bob Ross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Stormcrowe View Post
    The one in orbit develops a noticeable error over time.
    Given that gravity has a measurable effect on time, it seems more likely that the one on the ground is the one developing an error.

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