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Old 04-18-14, 02:07 PM   #1
Tom Stormcrowe
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Intellectual teaser: The Edge of the Universe, The Foo Edition

OK, we're gonna play a little game. We will stay strictly within the realm of Newtonian Mechanics.

Posit: An expanding Universe from the zero point, aka "The Big Bang".

The Mission: Using a Bussard Ramjet drive system, you depart for the edge of the universe. remember, as your velocity (V) approaches light speed (C), your time dilation effect increases and your ship time slows below the rate of sidereal time passage. You experience fewer years than the exterior universe does outside of your bubble. Ship Time will be represented by the Greek lower case letter tau (τ) and sidereal by (T)

For simplicity of the brain crunch, let's go ahead and place Earth as the physical center of the expanding universe. This is just to fix a position so we have a fixed reference origin. How long will it take you in T(years)? How long in τ(Years)? What is the end ratio of T:τ? Finally, will you ever actually be able to reach the edge of the universe, or are we talking an asymptotic curve of the type of equation where you take the remaining distance and keep dividing in into halves as it descends toward remaining distance being zero, but can never hit zero, even to the distance measured in fractions of the distance traveled in one unit of Planck Time (A theoretical smallest possible measure of a unit of time and indivisible). The distance can be defined as the diameter of a photon, which is the smallest indivisible particle in Newtonian Mechanics. When and how far apart will T and τ diverge.......how many years?
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Old 04-18-14, 02:09 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Tom Stormcrowe View Post
OK, we're gonna play a little game. We will stay strictly within the realm of Newtonian Mechanics.

Posit: An expanding Universe from the zero point, aka "The Big Bang".

The Mission: Using a Bussard Ramjet drive system, ....
You have been sneaking vintage Larry Niven paperbacks haven't you?
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Old 04-18-14, 02:12 PM   #3
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Can this be multiple choice? If so I choose C.
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Old 04-18-14, 03:11 PM   #4
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Bussard Ramjet drives suck. Not nearly reliable enough to make it out of the galaxy let alone get the the edge of the universe.
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Old 04-18-14, 03:36 PM   #5
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I can honestly say; "You'll never get there", Occam's Razor cuts both ways, and Newton is dead.

Can we use a dark matter ramjet?
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Old 04-18-14, 05:12 PM   #6
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Would it be considered cheating if I chatted with my buddy NDT and got back to you?
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Old 04-18-14, 06:06 PM   #7
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Fortunately, my travels are limited to the stratosphere...

I know how to get there and back.
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Old 04-18-14, 07:15 PM   #8
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I do not recognize the traditional meaning of time, as it is just a man-made concept. I follow my own system for measuring the passing of events. Long story short, the answer is 5.1908 quarks.
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Old 04-18-14, 07:50 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Stormcrowe View Post
We will stay strictly within the realm of Newtonian Mechanics.

Posit: An expanding Universe from the zero point, aka "The Big Bang".

The Mission: Using a Bussard Ramjet drive system, you depart for the edge of the universe. remember, as your velocity (V) approaches light speed (C), your time dilation effect increases and your ship time slows below the rate of sidereal time passage. You experience fewer years than the exterior universe does outside of your bubble. Ship Time will be represented by the Greek lower case letter tau (τ) and sidereal by (T)
There is no "edge of the universe," nor is there a center where you can choose to place the Earth, so the answer is never no matter which clock you use. And if you're staying within the realm of Newtonian mechanics then all clocks are the same.
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Old 04-18-14, 08:17 PM   #10
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Is it bad that I read this as "Intellectual taser..."?
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Old 04-18-14, 09:39 PM   #11
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Not sure I understand here. You say "We will stay strictly within the realm of Newtonian Mechanics." Which means to me that we are ignoring relativistic effects such as time dilation. Then you present the problem in relativistic terms. Seems like a trick question.
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Old 04-18-14, 10:51 PM   #12
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My infinite improbability drive makes this a trivial question. Meh!

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Old 04-19-14, 12:36 AM   #13
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Not sure I understand here. You say "We will stay strictly within the realm of Newtonian Mechanics." Which means to me that we are ignoring relativistic effects such as time dilation. Then you present the problem in relativistic terms. Seems like a trick question.
poor wording on my part. relativistic effects are known and there is empiric proof via "slippage" in orbit fof a satellite in relation to where it should be and actually is and infinitesimal error creeping ion on atomic clocks as compared to ground vs orbit. The one in orbit develops a noticeable error over time. General Relativity is a development from Newtonian and I am trying, more accurately, to hold to Einstein's view that does not include quantum effect (He hated the QM model).
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Old 04-19-14, 09:11 PM   #14
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My infinite improbability drive makes this a trivial question. Meh!
The Restaurant at the End of the Universe

"Delay?" [Zaphod] cried. "Have you seen the world outside this ship? It's a wasteland, a desert. Civilization's been and gone, man. There are no lemon-soaked paper napkins on the way from anywhere."

"The statistical likelihood," continued the autopilot primly, "is that other civilizations will arise. There will one day be lemon-soaked paper napkins. Till then there will be a short delay. Please return to your seat."

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Old 04-19-14, 09:20 PM   #15
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Since the universe's expansion seems to be accelerating, I don't think you can get to the "edge" at light speed.
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Old 04-19-14, 09:30 PM   #16
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I thought the answer was 42.
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Old 04-20-14, 07:15 AM   #17
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I thought the answer was 42.
That works.
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Old 04-20-14, 07:59 AM   #18
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What happens when I hit the barrier at the edge of the Galaxy?

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Old 04-20-14, 08:05 AM   #19
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I do not recognize the traditional meaning of time, as it is just a man-made concept. I follow my own system for measuring the passing of events. Long story short, the answer is 5.1908 quarks.
Did the JRTs give you the answer? If so, did you remember to divide by 7 for the human answer?
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Old 04-20-14, 09:05 AM   #20
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Wait, let me as Dr. Sheldon Cooper.
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Old 04-21-14, 05:35 AM   #21
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Is it bad that I read this as "Intellectual taser..."?
Is the wife spurning your romantic advances again?

(I read it the same...now I'm wondering if an intellectual taser strictly zaps your brain, as opposed to everything else.)
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Old 04-21-14, 10:25 AM   #22
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What's the frequency Kenneth?
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Old 04-21-14, 10:31 AM   #23
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The one in orbit develops a noticeable error over time.
Given that gravity has a measurable effect on time, it seems more likely that the one on the ground is the one developing an error.
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