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Old 08-11-14, 07:29 PM   #26
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I couldn't find any cycling content so this is getting moved from A&S to Foo.
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Old 08-11-14, 07:33 PM   #27
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In all honesty, if I got lit up driving fast enough I thought I'd go to jail, I don't think I'd stop.

Not that I drive that fast with any frequency anymore.
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Old 08-11-14, 07:34 PM   #28
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So now for the rest of his life when asked on a form "Have you ever been arrested?" He's got to answer "yes" and everyone's okay with that? For a traffic violation? Makes me sick.
I'm ok with it!

Driving, in this case, 38 mph over the 55 mph limit is to me a lot like waving around a loaded firearm in a crowd. There really should be serious penalties if you do that.
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Old 08-11-14, 07:36 PM   #29
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But it is something I'd expect most of us have done at some point in our lives.
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Old 08-11-14, 07:43 PM   #30
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Not quite that fast but I've broken canadian speed limits by 50+kmh multiple times and will again. Time and place for everything.
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Old 08-11-14, 07:45 PM   #31
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I'm ok with it!

Driving, in this case, 38 mph over the 55 mph limit is to me a lot like waving around a loaded firearm in a crowd. There really should be serious penalties if you do that.

I've seriously considered it, and yes I'm also OK with the jail time. Casual disregard for the law, a public danger, it's appropriate.
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Old 08-11-14, 07:46 PM   #32
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I've seriously considered it, and yes I'm also OK with the jail time. Casual disregard for the law, a public danger, it's appropriate.
Is it worth the likelihood that the speeder bolts, though? That's much more dangerous.
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Old 08-11-14, 07:58 PM   #33
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Is it worth the likelihood that the speeder bolts, though? That's much more dangerous.
If you get him off the road before he kills someone, yes. Off meaning suspended license.

I can't quite countenance the idea of letting a criminal go because he might potentially do something worse when you stop his crime.
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Old 08-11-14, 08:01 PM   #34
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If you get him off the road before he kills someone, yes. Off meaning suspended license.

I can't quite countenance the idea of letting a criminal go because he might potentially do something worse when you stop his crime.
Lots of people, knowing they're going to jail or losing their car or whatever, would probably not stop when the LEO lit them up. Pursuits are dangerous and expensive. These same people probably would stop and take an obscene ticket.

"Criminal" is a bit strong for someone driving too fast, but that's another topic.
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Old 08-11-14, 08:48 PM   #35
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Lots of people, knowing they're going to jail or losing their car or whatever, would probably not stop when the LEO lit them up. Pursuits are dangerous and expensive. These same people probably would stop and take an obscene ticket.

"Criminal" is a bit strong for someone driving too fast, but that's another topic.
I think police departments are getting more sophisticated about when to proceed with a chase and when to end it. Hopefully, this gives individual officers the tools they need to make the best decision in the heat of the moment. Regardless, I don't think we should set penalties based on the theory that more people or less will run rather than get caught. Some will run over what seems fairly trivial (like the driver who hit my wife's car and ran, despite that it would have been just a ticket*). Some will stop and face the consequences, rather than run and face much greater punishment if caught. A lot of people who break laws are not rational people, and there's no telling what they may or may not do when a crime is witnessed by a police officer.

I think potential penalties should be set based on the potential consequences of the behavior, which in the case of driving way too fast, are very grave indeed. Unfortunately in the US, traffic laws are treated like a joke to many. Speeding is taken as a right. Drivers think they have skills that they don't. The consequences of mistakes are never considered until the unthinkable happens, and someone dies.

(* In the case of my wife's accident, it's always possible that the driver was driving without insurance, without a license, had a pending arrest warrant, had drugs in the car, was an illegal immigrant, etc., etc. There's just no telling. Maybe the legislature should just repeal the law that says you have to stop and share insurance if you're in an accident? Well, no, because most people do stop.)
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Old 08-12-14, 06:56 AM   #36
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It's all BS. You can steal a motorcycle/car/bicycle and not get jail time. You could be the CEO of a bank or corporation that has defrauded people out of their pensions and not get jail time. Even better, you could skew intelligence, start a war costing billions of dollars and tens of thousands of deaths and not get jail time. But, yeah let's hang speeders up by the balls. Good grief.
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Old 08-12-14, 09:55 AM   #37
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It's all BS. You can steal a motorcycle/car/bicycle and not get jail time. You could be the CEO of a bank or corporation that has defrauded people out of their pensions and not get jail time. Even better, you could skew intelligence, start a war costing billions of dollars and tens of thousands of deaths and not get jail time. But, yeah let's hang speeders up by the balls. Good grief.
Agreed. No mention of competence was made here either. I'd much rather be around someone speeding who was able to be safely in control of their vehicle than around someone not speeding and texting/talking on their phone/intoxicated/distracted/yelling at their kids in the back seat/spewing large amounts of black smoke out of their illegally modified exhaust....
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Old 08-12-14, 10:41 AM   #38
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It's all BS. You can steal a motorcycle/car/bicycle and not get jail time. You could be the CEO of a bank or corporation that has defrauded people out of their pensions and not get jail time. Even better, you could skew intelligence, start a war costing billions of dollars and tens of thousands of deaths and not get jail time. But, yeah let's hang speeders up by the balls. Good grief.
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Agreed. No mention of competence was made here either. I'd much rather be around someone speeding who was able to be safely in control of their vehicle than around someone not speeding and texting/talking on their phone/intoxicated/distracted/yelling at their kids in the back seat/spewing large amounts of black smoke out of their illegally modified exhaust....

Stealing a few items or money doesn't put people's live in direct danger. Plus, who said these people don't get jail time? If you're a repeat offender, you will get jail time.

Speeding 50 km/h over the speed limit is extremely dangerous. What if the guy hit a car and wiped out an entire family? Would that change your opinion?
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Old 08-12-14, 10:55 AM   #39
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Imagine how much safer our roads would be if this type of penalty was applied universally.
OK, I give up -- how much safer would it be if this type of penalty was applied universally?

I'd rather support progressive fines based on income...
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Old 08-12-14, 11:00 AM   #40
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In all honesty, if I got lit up driving fast enough I thought I'd go to jail, I don't think I'd stop.

Not that I drive that fast with any frequency anymore.
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Old 08-12-14, 11:15 AM   #41
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Stealing a few items or money doesn't put people's live in direct danger. Plus, who said these people don't get jail time? If you're a repeat offender, you will get jail time.

Speeding 50 km/h over the speed limit is extremely dangerous. What if the guy hit a car and wiped out an entire family? Would that change your opinion?
Many people did die or have theirs placed in danger in the examples I was agreeing with, and no one has gone to jail that I know of for these crimes with the exception of Bernard Madof. And the only reason he's in jail because he swindled victims wealthy enough to have the laws enforced.

Speed limits are easier (and more profitable) to enforce than other laws that deal with traffic safety. People still use handheld phones regularly when they drive here, even after this was outlawed after numerous studies showed it was dangerous with some showing it was a dangerous as driving while intoxicated. But they've got little to worry about while driving as long as they aren't speeding.
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Old 08-12-14, 11:21 AM   #42
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Speeding 50 km/h over the speed limit is extremely dangerous. What if the guy hit a car and wiped out an entire family? Would that change your opinion?
Believe it or not, tragic motor vehicle collisions/accidents can and do occur even when no one involved is exceeding the posted speed limit or using a cell phone.

Does that change your opinion?
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Old 08-12-14, 11:34 AM   #43
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Believe it or not, tragic motor vehicle collisions/accidents can and do occur even when no one involved is exceeding the posted speed limit or using a cell phone.

Does that change your opinion?
What are the relative frequencies of occurrence? What is the correlation if any, between speeding and tragic vehicle accidents? If people who are speeding are much more likely to have an accident, and those accidents are more likely to cause serious injury or fatality, then I'd agree with the other guy that the speeder represents a greater danger.

I don't care what someone does in his car, unless he poses a risk. Increasing a risk to my well-being for his own reasons, whatever they are, becomes my business. A public risk to citizens makes it the State's business, since protecting citizens and their rights are in the State's legitimate interest. So it comes down to risk. Since you pose the equivalence of accidents involving non-speeders and those involving speeders, is it your opinion that they equally risky to other drivers?
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Old 08-12-14, 11:40 AM   #44
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Speeding 50 km/h over the speed limit is extremely dangerous. What if the guy hit a car and wiped out an entire family? Would that change your opinion?
That's actually not necessarily the case. It depends on what the roadway was designed for... whether the speed limit was reasonably set, if the road is heavily travelled, What the vehicle is designed for, etc.
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Old 08-12-14, 12:11 PM   #45
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OK, I give up -- how much safer would it be if this type of penalty was applied universally?
I'd rather support progressive fines based on income...
I'd be willing to try the experiment to find out.

There was a fine levied too. I'd definitely support hugely progressive fines. It should be noted that progressive fines are not uncommon in europe:

BBC News - Swede faces world-record $1m speeding penalty

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Old 08-12-14, 12:22 PM   #46
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Stealing a few items or money doesn't put people's live in direct danger. Plus, who said these people don't get jail time? If you're a repeat offender, you will get jail time.

Speeding 50 km/h over the speed limit is extremely dangerous. What if the guy hit a car and wiped out an entire family? Would that change your opinion?
I'm telling you that a first time offender will not get jail time for stealing stuff. I've experienced it as a victim of theft and I've seen it over and over where I live in CT. Speeding is a legal term but it's also somewhat arbitrary. First, many roads are designed for speeds far in excess of the posted limit. Posted limits being political things. Almost all cars are designed to be "safe" at speeds higher than posted limits. And, exceeding the limit by 30 mph on the interstate is far different than exceeding it by 30 mph in downtown Chicago for instance. One is clearly more dangerous than the other. If you ever got pulled over at one of the local speed traps because the limit changed without clear notice (which has been done) and you were put in jail for several days and/or had your car impounded would it change your mind?
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Old 08-12-14, 01:11 PM   #47
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It's not too hard to envision a (or group of) cyclist(s) on one of these scenic back roads in the valley getting nailed by a guy in the Camaro doing 93 down a narrow'ish country road. At that speed the sight distances and reaction time is nil.

On the interstate ?, maybe. But what he describes he was doing was extremely dangerous and any number of circumstances could have resulted, a car pulling out of a driveway ?, expecting oncoming cars to be doing maybe 60 ?. Kid crossing the street ?. School bus coming to a stop ?, the list is endless.

Virginia has figured out that speeding drivers are a major problem. Maybe more states will follow suit.

The author KNEW and had been warned that Virginia is tough on speeders, yet decided to "see what the Camaro could do" so-to-speak.

F _ _ K 'em, 6 mos. licenses suspension, $2,000 fine and 3 days.

There would be a lot more people alive right now if every state had these kind of penalties.
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Old 08-12-14, 06:32 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Believe it or not, tragic motor vehicle collisions/accidents can and do occur even when no one involved is exceeding the posted speed limit or using a cell phone.

Does that change your opinion?
No.

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That's actually not necessarily the case. It depends on what the roadway was designed for... whether the speed limit was reasonably set, if the road is heavily travelled, What the vehicle is designed for, etc.
Just because someone shoots a kid in the leg, intentionally missing the arteries, doesn't mean it's okay. Speed limit is the speed limit. Obey or get fined. Don't obey repeatedly and do foolish stuff like this guy did, you'll get jailed for risking other's lives.

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I'm telling you that a first time offender will not get jail time for stealing stuff. I've experienced it as a victim of theft and I've seen it over and over where I live in CT. Speeding is a legal term but it's also somewhat arbitrary. First, many roads are designed for speeds far in excess of the posted limit. Posted limits being political things. Almost all cars are designed to be "safe" at speeds higher than posted limits. And, exceeding the limit by 30 mph on the interstate is far different than exceeding it by 30 mph in downtown Chicago for instance. One is clearly more dangerous than the other. If you ever got pulled over at one of the local speed traps because the limit changed without clear notice (which has been done) and you were put in jail for several days and/or had your car impounded would it change your mind?
If you were caught going twice the speed limit multiple times, yeah you'd deserve it.

What if some cop didn't pull someone over and he went on to kill someone you love? Cop wasn't pulling anyone over because "the road is designed for far more than 50 mph?" I guarantee you will sue the police department.



Innocents have been killed for a crime they didn't commit and guilty have walked. Don't be stupid, obey the law or face the consequences.
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Old 08-12-14, 07:26 PM   #49
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Since you pose the equivalence of accidents involving non-speeders and those involving speeders,
I did no such thing. If anything, I posed the equivalence of dead victims of tragic motor vehicle collisions/accidents, no matter if a speed law was violated or not.
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Old 08-12-14, 08:15 PM   #50
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Every time I've almost been hit, it's been by soccer moms. Driving, riding, or walking. I've also almost hit pedestrians, while driving 10 under the limit in the dark. They tend to wear all black and walk out without looking sometimes.

And no I've never come close to almost hitting someone while traveling at high speed because I don't travel at high speeds anywhere there could be someone to hit.

I do however pass cyclists on back roads sometimes-completely in the other lane, in a sensible spot, at a prudent speed, the same way I would pass a car. I will continue to do this as it's not dangerous at all.
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