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  1. #1
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    Speeder gets jail time.

    Never Speed In Virginia: Lessons From My Three Days In Jail

    Imagine how much safer our roads would be if this type of penalty was applied universally.
    Road rash is a precious gift. Road rash is your friend. Bask in it, appreciate it, love it. Above all, learn from it. --Robert Hurst

  2. #2
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    Probably no safer, but even if it were, this is a good reason not to live in Virginia.

    I'm not necessarily opposed to short jail time for speeders (in the extreme), but class 1 misdemeanor, and open ended sentencing beyond a few days is unreasonable by any standard.

    However, if this is to anybody's liking they should fee free to move to VA.
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    WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.

  3. #3
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    In Ontario, Canada, we have even stricter laws. If you are caught doing 50 kms over the limit, it is considered "stunt driving", and you will without trial have your car impounded and your license suspended for a short period. WITHOUT TRIAL.

    I've been threatened with jail time speeding in North Carolina, because as a foreigner he wasn't sure I would attend my mandatory court date.

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    The problem is that in many parts of the country, the jails are so overcrowded anyway, many are out on the same night. We got pulled over because a cop felt that our bike rack obstructed our plate too much, fortunately that was only a minor misdemeanor, no jail time allowed.

  5. #5
    Senior Member JameB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesRL View Post
    In Ontario, Canada, we have even stricter laws. If you are caught doing 50 kms over the limit, it is considered "stunt driving", and you will without trial have your car impounded and your license suspended for a short period. WITHOUT TRIAL.

    I've been threatened with jail time speeding in North Carolina, because as a foreigner he wasn't sure I would attend my mandatory court date.
    LOL, I don't get what's wrong with that?

    Driving is a privilege, if you do stupid stuff, you lose the privilege. In fact, they suspend your license for only a short period (too short in my opinion).

    While I agree that jail time for speeding 50 km/h over speed limit is a little harsh, if the guy has had multiple speeding infractions, it's justified.

  6. #6
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    Speeding 30 mph over the limit in Florida is a felony.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by JameB View Post
    LOL, I don't get what's wrong with that?

    Driving is a privilege, if you do stupid stuff, you lose the privilege. In fact, they suspend your license for only a short period (too short in my opinion).

    While I agree that jail time for speeding 50 km/h over speed limit is a little harsh, if the guy has had multiple speeding infractions, it's justified.
    Um perhaps you aren't understanding the implications.

    I don't have a problem with having stiff penalties for speeding.

    What I do object to is the way that Ontario and some other jurisdictions do it, by the police impounding your car and taking you to jail on the spot. It violates the principle that everyone has a right to a fair trial. Sure you could have trial afterwards and get your record expunged, but you have already paid the sentance. In my mind, police enforce laws and judges hand out sentances. Period. It is a bad precedent.

  8. #8
    Senior Member RPK79's Avatar
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    I broke the speed limit in Wisconsin on my bike this weekend.

    edit: and got passed by a car while doing so.

  9. #9
    Senior Member JameB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesRL View Post
    Um perhaps you aren't understanding the implications.

    I don't have a problem with having stiff penalties for speeding.

    What I do object to is the way that Ontario and some other jurisdictions do it, by the police impounding your car and taking you to jail on the spot. It violates the principle that everyone has a right to a fair trial. Sure you could have trial afterwards and get your record expunged, but you have already paid the sentance. In my mind, police enforce laws and judges hand out sentances. Period. It is a bad precedent.
    No cop has time to falsely accuse someone of speeding 40-50 km/h without proof. Pretty sure they have to defend their tickets in court. If they're caught giving false tickets, they lose their job.

    They aren't accusing you of murder or putting you in prison. They're impounding your car. It's for everyone's safety...

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesRL View Post

    What I do object to is the way that Ontario and some other jurisdictions do it, by the police impounding your car and taking you to jail on the spot. ...
    While I'm 100% with you on the issue of the principles involved, and opposed to all disproportionate penalties for any and all offenses, I don't really object to immediate arrest until a bond is posted for some traffic infractions.

    But I don't think speeding, by a licensed driver who can demonstrate his identity makes the cut. The driver involved presents no special risk or flight, nor clear and present danger to the community, so it should be a case of write the ticket and let the court system do it's job.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by JameB View Post
    No cop has time to falsely accuse someone of speeding 40-50 km/h without proof. Pretty sure they have to defend their tickets in court. If they're caught giving false tickets, they lose their job.

    They aren't accusing you of murder or putting you in prison. They're impounding your car. It's for everyone's safety...
    This will thread will quickly boil down to one's general attitude toward police and their role in a democratic society. The USA has a long history of putting tough restraints on police departments, and it's served us well. When we've experimented with giving police pore power, it's usually led to abuse, as has been shown with civil forfeiture laws.

    It's not whether police issue defective tickets -- we know that they do -- it's that cops are rarely, if ever sanctioned for doing so. Those who feel that the police are all honest and diligent (I agree that most are, within limits) might read the other thread here about the LA Sheriff's Dept.
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    An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

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    WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Looigi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesRL View Post
    In Ontario, Canada, we have even stricter laws. If you are caught doing 50 kms over the limit, it is considered "stunt driving", and you will without trial have your car impounded and your license suspended for a short period. WITHOUT TRIAL.
    Caught by whom and under what circumstances? The purpose of the trial is to establish guilt in a more impartial and objective forum than relying solely on the whim of an individual law enforcement officer.
    Ride more. Fret less.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Looigi View Post
    Caught by whom and under what circumstances? The purpose of the trial is to establish guilt in a more impartial and objective forum than relying solely on the whim of an individual law enforcement officer.
    In Ontario, If the speeder is doing 50kms over the limit (or roughly 95 MPH on the major highways), the police have the right to seize the vehicle for 7 days, and/or suspend the person's license for seven days. Judges then can hand down fines from $2000-$20,000, and a license suspension of 2 years on the first offense, 10 years on the second. I don't have an issue with what judges can do.

  14. #14
    Senior Member JameB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
    This will thread will quickly boil down to one's general attitude toward police and their role in a democratic society. The USA has a long history of putting tough restraints on police departments, and it's served us well. When we've experimented with giving police pore power, it's usually led to abuse, as has been shown with civil forfeiture laws.

    It's not whether police issue defective tickets -- we know that they do -- it's that cops are rarely, if ever sanctioned for doing so. Those who feel that the police are all honest and diligent (I agree that most are, within limits) might read the other thread here about the LA Sheriff's Dept.

    Yeah, but I haven't heard of a cop impounding a car without cause. It's always "____ caught going 100+ km;h in a 50 zone" etc.

  15. #15
    Senior Member RPK79's Avatar
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    I'm glad I live in 'Merica where I have 6th Amendment protections.


  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by JameB View Post
    Yeah, but I haven't heard of a cop impounding a car without cause. It's always "____ caught going 100+ km;h in a 50 zone" etc.
    And if a cop doesn't like you, for whatever reason, what's to stop a slight fudge upwards in borderline cases.

    Most courts assign error to favor the defendant, many cops assign it against. Big difference. Police are gathers of facts, courts are the right place to decide how to interpret them.
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    WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
    This will thread will quickly boil down to one's general attitude toward police and their role in a democratic society.
    It was the cantankerous judge who chose to lock up this nitwit, not the leo. Moreover, from the sound of it the leo was as lenient as he could be (e.g. not impounding the car etc).

    I also find nothing disproportionate about someone who is willing to drive 38 #@$%ing mph over the speed limit on a curvy rural highway spending a few days in jail. In fact, incarceration of reckless and DUII drivers seems to me to be a better use of our incarceration facilities than the "war on drugs".
    Last edited by spare_wheel; 08-11-14 at 04:37 PM.
    Road rash is a precious gift. Road rash is your friend. Bask in it, appreciate it, love it. Above all, learn from it. --Robert Hurst

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by spare_wheel View Post
    It was the cantankerous judge who chose to lock up this nitwit, not the leo. Moreover, from the sound of it the leo was as lenient as he could be (e.g. not impounding the car etc).

    I also find nothing disproportionate about someone who is willing to drive 38 #@$%ing mph over the speed limit on a curvy rural highway spending a few days in jail. In fact, incarceration of reckless and DUII drivers seems to me to be a better use of our incarceration facilities than the "war on drugs".
    If you had read my post you'd seen found that I agreed that the 3 days in jail wasn't that outrageous. though community service for this kind of non-violent offense makes more sense. (to me).

    ---
    from my post No.2 ---- "I'm not necessarily opposed to short jail time for speeders (in the extreme)...."
    ---

    Then I went on to explain my general objection to parts of the law, ie. class 1 misdemeanor, and/or the maximum sentence possible.

    But I don't live in Virginia, and would certainly factor this kind of law if the occasion to move there ever arose.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
    Then I went on to explain my general objection to parts of the law, ie. class 1 misdemeanor, and/or the maximum sentence possible.
    My mistake.
    Road rash is a precious gift. Road rash is your friend. Bask in it, appreciate it, love it. Above all, learn from it. --Robert Hurst

  20. #20
    rugged individualist wphamilton's Avatar
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    After reading that guy's article I feel like it's a shame they went so easy on him.

  21. #21
    PatronSaintOfDiscBrakes dynaryder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spare_wheel View Post
    I also find nothing disproportionate about someone who is willing to drive 38 #@$%ing mph over the speed limit on a curvy rural highway spending a few days in jail.
    Not defending the driver,but from the article:
    "when I blasted the ZL1 down a rural straightaway in Virginia "

    However,I am familiar with the area the driver got busted in(used to ride my motorcycle through there to visit my Dad in MD from Hampton Roads),and he was a total idiot for speeding through there. It's a decent length straight divided highway with occasional turnouts. Not only is it hard to see vehicles as they pull out of some of the turnouts,but cops regularly sit in them with radar. I was always careful to watch my speed through there.

    edit: just read through the entire article.
    "Other Class One misdemeanors in Virginia include animal cruelty, sexual battery, and aiming a firearm at someone. This is how the state regards people who drive over 80 mph."

    Ok,screw this guy. Someone should inform him as to the number of traffic fatalities we have in this country. Bet he'd be genuinely shocked to hear they're way higher than firearm fatalities.
    Last edited by dynaryder; 08-11-14 at 05:44 PM.

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  22. #22
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    So now for the rest of his life when asked on a form "Have you ever been arrested?" He's got to answer "yes" and everyone's okay with that? For a traffic violation? Makes me sick.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coal Buster View Post
    So now for the rest of his life when asked on a form "Have you ever been arrested?" He's got to answer "yes" and everyone's okay with that? For a traffic violation? Makes me sick.
    Not everyone. But being arrested and having to say so isn't that big a deal. Many have been arrested for any number of reasons, including things like political protests, or other not so serious violations. But convicted of a class 1 misdemeanor (unless it was plead way down) for what is still a traffic offense, with no injury or property damage is outrageous.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
    Not everyone. But being arrested and having to say so isn't that big a deal. Many have been arrested for any number of reasons, including things like political protests, or other not so serious violations. But convicted of a class 1 misdemeanor (unless it was plead way down) for what is still a traffic offense, with no injury or property damage is outrageous.
    I appreciate your views. My wife works in the court. All too often she has seen how the careless application of the law has has seriously impacted young lives. Arresting a young man or woman means they will be strip searched. If they do something violent, sure, but for traffic offenses?
    A ride on a bike is not a walk in the park

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
    Not everyone. But being arrested and having to say so isn't that big a deal. Many have been arrested for any number of reasons, including things like political protests, or other not so serious violations.
    It can be a big deal even for minor charges when trying to find employment. Although it doesn't necessarily disqualify you, when there are any number of equally qualified people who don't check yes, you're going to be at a real disadvantage. The higher up the wage scale you go, the less it matters, but for some any arrest can severely hamper their progress in life.

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