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  1. #1
    Ride the Road Daily Commute's Avatar
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    According to this story in the NYT today, video tapes have caught the cops making stuff up about some of the people they arrested protesting the Republican Convention. I was a bit harsh about CM at the time. It looks like they were right and I was wrong. Sorry to y'all. I hope the cops get nailed for this.

    The story starts:

    Videos Challenge Accounts of Convention Unrest
    By JIM DWYER

    Published: April 12, 2005

    Dennis Kyne put up such a fight at a political protest last summer, the arresting officer recalled, it took four police officers to haul him down the steps of the New York Public Library and across Fifth Avenue.

    "We picked him up and we carried him while he squirmed and screamed," the officer, Matthew Wohl, testified in December. "I had one of his legs because he was kicking and refusing to walk on his own."

    Accused of inciting a riot and resisting arrest, Mr. Kyne was the first of the 1,806 people arrested in New York last summer during the Republican National Convention to take his case to a jury. But one day after Officer Wohl testified, and before the defense called a single witness, the prosecutor abruptly dropped all charges.

    During a recess, the defense had brought new information to the prosecutor. A videotape shot by a documentary filmmaker showed Mr. Kyne agitated but plainly walking under his own power down the library steps, contradicting the vivid account of Officer Wohl, who was nowhere to be seen in the pictures. Nor was the officer seen taking part in the arrests of four other people at the library against whom he signed complaints.

    A sprawling body of visual evidence, made possible by inexpensive, lightweight cameras in the hands of private citizens, volunteer observers and the police themselves, has shifted the debate over precisely what happened on the streets during the week of the convention.

    For Mr. Kyne and 400 others arrested that week, video recordings provided evidence that they had not committed a crime or that the charges against them could not be proved, according to defense lawyers and prosecutors. . . .

  2. #2
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    That's very gracious of you to say. Thanks.

  3. #3
    Huachuca Rider webist's Avatar
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    Interesting. It's like reporting on something heard on 60 minutes as though it were automatically factual.
    Just Peddlin' Around

  4. #4
    Ride the Road Daily Commute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by webist
    Interesting. It's like reporting on something heard on 60 minutes as though it were automatically factual.
    Read the story. Judge for yourself. I just heard it on NPR, too. The link should be available tomorrow at the All Things Condsidered portion of npr.org. If you have any information indicating that the NYT got it wrong, by all means, post it.

    But your skepticism seems misplaced. The story is backed up by 100's of hours of video tape and the decision of multiple prosecutors to drop the charges right and left. Sounds like a media conspiracy to me. Yeah. Right.

    By the way, I first learned of it from Kevin Drum's blog, WashingtonMonthly.com, at this post.
    Last edited by Daily Commute; 04-12-05 at 05:50 PM.

  5. #5
    2-Cyl, 1/2 HP @ 90 RPM slvoid's Avatar
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    So what's going to happen to the cops? Probably nothing, business as usual, the lies go on.

  6. #6
    Senior Member skydive69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daily Commute
    According to this story in the NYT today, video tapes have caught the cops making stuff up about some of the people they arrested protesting the Republican Convention. I was a bit harsh about CM at the time. It looks like they were right and I was wrong. Sorry to y'all. I hope the cops get nailed for this.

    The story starts:

    Videos Challenge Accounts of Convention Unrest
    By JIM DWYER

    Published: April 12, 2005

    Dennis Kyne put up such a fight at a political protest last summer, the arresting officer recalled, it took four police officers to haul him down the steps of the New York Public Library and across Fifth Avenue.

    "We picked him up and we carried him while he squirmed and screamed," the officer, Matthew Wohl, testified in December. "I had one of his legs because he was kicking and refusing to walk on his own."

    Accused of inciting a riot and resisting arrest, Mr. Kyne was the first of the 1,806 people arrested in New York last summer during the Republican National Convention to take his case to a jury. But one day after Officer Wohl testified, and before the defense called a single witness, the prosecutor abruptly dropped all charges.

    During a recess, the defense had brought new information to the prosecutor. A videotape shot by a documentary filmmaker showed Mr. Kyne agitated but plainly walking under his own power down the library steps, contradicting the vivid account of Officer Wohl, who was nowhere to be seen in the pictures. Nor was the officer seen taking part in the arrests of four other people at the library against whom he signed complaints.

    A sprawling body of visual evidence, made possible by inexpensive, lightweight cameras in the hands of private citizens, volunteer observers and the police themselves, has shifted the debate over precisely what happened on the streets during the week of the convention.

    For Mr. Kyne and 400 others arrested that week, video recordings provided evidence that they had not committed a crime or that the charges against them could not be proved, according to defense lawyers and prosecutors. . . .
    I certainly would assume that anything reported in the NY press is factual. LMAO
    www.brokennecktobrokenrecords.com

  7. #7
    >< neuron's Avatar
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    The police have shown the tendency to lie about city and state laws in relation to CM. It certainly wouldn't surprise me if their editing of arrest footage to match their paper narrative is true. The arresting officers were nowhere near the "bodies" when they got cuffed. Their narratives of the arrests were fabrications. The fact that many cases have been dismissed should tell you something of the nature of these arrests.

    If the deponent lied about the collar and were nowhere near when the arrest and describe the events as if they were present, I expect them to be held accountable -- that is, slapped with a misdemeanor charge as stated on all the arrest papers for misrepresenting fact.

    and somehow i believe that is not going to happen.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Dchiefransom's Avatar
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    While the D.A. might not bring charges on his own, it might be worth it for the people that had their charges dropped to each file a complaint. If it was me, I would not have let my attorney present the evidence until the prosecution had rested their case, with the officer testifying in court. Then it would be perjury.

  9. #9
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    This particular case with officer Wohl at the library and the person supposedly flipping out and having to be carried off but the video showed different was first reported roughly back in January when this trial took place. I am 99.9% positive officers did testify before the video was presented. Once the video was shown contradicting what the officers claimed the prosecutor moved to drop the case. I remember the question of perjury charges coming up but as far as I know they haven't followed through with it.

  10. #10
    Ride the Road Daily Commute's Avatar
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    Here's an NPR story about the officers' misstatements. They have audi of the cops giving specific instructions on how protesters could avoid being arrested. The protesters do exactly what they're told, then get arrested. Nice.
    Last edited by Daily Commute; 04-13-05 at 03:53 AM.

  11. #11
    militant commuter
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    Quote Originally Posted by slvoid
    So what's going to happen to the cops? Probably nothing, business as usual, the lies go on.
    Not only is nothing going to happen, but the coppers have already been paid overtime. And the people they arrested had to pay to defend themselves,

  12. #12
    2-Cyl, 1/2 HP @ 90 RPM slvoid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycm'er
    Not only is nothing going to happen, but the coppers have already been paid overtime. And the people they arrested had to pay to defend themselves,
    Corruption at its best.

  13. #13
    Listen to me powers2b's Avatar
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    Shock and awe.....shock and awe...

    Enjoy

  14. #14
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    I produced a podcast interview with Jym Dyer who was on the scene as a cm rider.

    http://bikescape.blogspot.com/2005/0...l-we-ride.html

    Democracy Now had another interview with the guy in the times article at

    http://www.democracynow.org/article..../04/14/1349256

    -jon

  15. #15
    Muddy old fart flyingCoyote's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neuron
    The police have shown the tendency to lie about city and state laws in relation to CM.
    Cops tend to be one rung below used car salesmen on the honesty scale. CMers tend to take this personally because so many of them grew up white and privileged and think it's an aberration.

    Sometimes, they're "sure" that someone is guilty, so they dress up the evidence a little, genuinely thinking that they're doing the right thing.

    Sometimes, they've lied/wasted money/failed and they're covering their asses. I was the victim of one of those myself, though I got off due to having a real lawyer. Other innocent men who had public defenders went to prison on completely made-up stuff and it was years before the corrupt Sheriff and his gang got nailed...but oh did we gloat when he went down!

    I would love to see these lying sacks get hauled in for perjury, but I'm not holding my breath...

  16. #16
    Ride the Road Daily Commute's Avatar
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    They'd avoid perjury charges by saying that 1) the stuff they testified about happened before or after the taping; and/or 2) it was an honest mistake. On the second point, it's not perjury to be wrong when you testify, it's only perjury if you know what you're saying is false.

    I'm not defending the cops--I'm just saying what would likely get them out of the perjury charges.

  17. #17
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    Bunch o hypocrites...........pots callin kettles black
    Totally ok for cyclists to blast thru stop signs and signals, no turn signals,and then to gripe about others breakin laws??????????
    Multi thousand $ bikes, no insurance, no liability, hit a pedestrian who pays??
    Get real, and get some responsibility, then complain

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daily Commute
    They'd avoid perjury charges by saying that 1) the stuff they testified about happened before or after the taping; and/or 2) it was an honest mistake. On the second point, it's not perjury to be wrong when you testify, it's only perjury if you know what you're saying is false.

    I'm not defending the cops--I'm just saying what would likely get them out of the perjury charges.

    They can't claim number one because the officers detailed account had to do with the arrest and having 4 officers carry the arrestee to the van. The video captured the arrest and the journey of the arrestee to the van but it showed a different chain of events than the officer testified to. Unless the officer is going to claim they had to arrest and take him to the van twice and only one of the times was caught on video. If he can get away with calling it an honest mistake and no one has a problem with that then our justice system is more useless than I previously thought. How is claiming to be the arresting officer of someone you didnt arrest an honest mistake? How is fabricating a story and adding a slew of non existant charges to someone an honest mistake?

  19. #19
    Ride the Road Daily Commute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lockdown
    They can't claim number one because the officers detailed account had to do with the arrest and having 4 officers carry the arrestee to the van. The video captured the arrest and the journey of the arrestee to the van but it showed a different chain of events than the officer testified to. Unless the officer is going to claim they had to arrest and take him to the van twice and only one of the times was caught on video. If he can get away with calling it an honest mistake and no one has a problem with that then our justice system is more useless than I previously thought. How is claiming to be the arresting officer of someone you didnt arrest an honest mistake? How is fabricating a story and adding a slew of non existant charges to someone an honest mistake?
    "Your honor, that's how I remembered it. There were thousands of people there that night, and I helped in dozens of arrests. I'm sorry, but it looks like I just got this one wrong."

    And even if they aren't lying, I hope this does put a stain on their credibility to future NY juries. Even if we can't prove perjury, a mistake is a mistake, and it's particularly bad when it could end up sending someone to prison.

  20. #20
    Perineal Pressurized dobber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyingCoyote
    Cops tend to be one rung below used car salesmen
    That is of course until you actually need one. They're awful handy when it comes to finding a lost child, summoning medical help and tangling with the dregs of society.

    It's a tough job, made tougher by idiot poseurs.

  21. #21
    Senior Member peripatetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travelinguyrt
    Bunch o hypocrites...........pots callin kettles black
    Totally ok for cyclists to blast thru stop signs and signals, no turn signals,and then to gripe about others breakin laws??????????
    Multi thousand $ bikes, no insurance, no liability, hit a pedestrian who pays??
    Get real, and get some responsibility, then complain
    Really strange reaction to all of the information being presented. I don't think anyone here would say that running stop signs or hitting pedestrians is OK, and I bet many CMers would recognize they were accountable if they did such a thing. I personally have never participated in the events, because I'm not totally fond of the more radical elements of the crowd, but I think anybody should have a right to ride their bicycles. And as a NYC bike-rider, I appreciate anybody who raises awareness of cyclist's rights in a NON-violent manner: we need it here.

    As a law student, I think that policemen SHOULD be held accountable for lying, fabricating or misrepresenting the facts of cases in which they're involved, esp. if those cases involved locking up innocent citizens involved in legal protesting/free speech activities. None of the facts in these cases warrants any skepticism towards the reporters or the defendants; the cops plainly screwed up. The prosecutors's quick dropping of charges certainly shows how worthless their testimony turned out to be.

    That get some responsibility bit really belongs on the Ayn Rand/Objectivist/Head in the Sand forums, not on a biking one: I think most people who decide to ride a bicycle for transportation, political statement OR fun probably have an inkling of the notion of responsibility. And the idea is NOT incompatible with the idea of protesting anyone or anything in the political establishment. Seems that remaining passive in your community/ignoring the wrongs committed by those in power is about the LEAST responsible thing a citizen can do.

    ...all IMO, of course.

    And by the way, I don't think that, as one person suggested, the defense attorney would have been able to withhold the tape until the prosecutor had rested his case. Both sides are under obligations of rules of evidence to make the other side aware of any new evidence as its made available to them.

  22. #22
    Senior Member GeezerGeek's Avatar
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    The judges could slap their hands for perjury but do they? Do the falsely accused bikers have any recourse against the police in the courts? Are there any lawyers out there that want to comment?

  23. #23
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    and in further news:

    NY Pays Out to Arrested Convention Protesters
    Fri Apr 15, 2005 07:21 PM ET

    NEW YORK (Reuters) - More than 100 protesters arrested during the 2004 Republican National Convention that nominated President Bush reached a $230,000 settlement on Friday with New York City.
    The city agreed to pay $150 to 108 people arrested during protests against Bush administration policies at last summer's convention. A further $215,000 will be paid by the city to cover their legal fees, bringing the total to $231,200.

    The settlement stemmed from a contempt of court order issued by State Supreme Court Judge John Cataldo, who said the city should release hundreds of protesters still in custody on Sept. 2, 2004 after being detained more than 24 hours during the convention.

    After police failed to comply the judge held the city in contempt.

    Gail Donoghue, special counsel for the city, said the settlement did not mean a finding or admission of wrongdoing by the city.

    But lawyers for the protesters and civil rights organizations called the settlement a symbolic victory and a sign of larger payments to come from up to 100 lawsuits still pending that contain more serious charges of wrongful arrest.

  24. #24
    Senior Member peripatetic's Avatar
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    Gosh darned activist judges! Time to re-write the constitution. No respect for authority anymore--even by the authorities!

  25. #25
    Ride the Road Daily Commute's Avatar
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    It looks like the CM'ers will have a chance to see what the video tapes can prove.

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