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  1. #1
    ex frame builder
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    Last edited by Dave Moulton; 03-12-05 at 06:55 AM.

  2. #2
    DEADBEEF khuon's Avatar
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    While I too share your concerns, I think it's a little hard to legislate decency. I know you and I have had disagreements about some things in a couple of threads but I like to think we argued our points in a civilised and intelligent manner. All of the "violations of decorum" (for lack of a better term) and ethics you mentioned above are well... quite frankly... a big reason why some people choose to use the Internet and such services as these forums. The anonymity and ability to say things they would not normally say in a face-to-face meeting is the draw for them. I think the best thing you can do in such a case is to simply ignore them and stand the high ground by only responding to intelligent, well-written and civil posts. I'm sure the other readers can properly filter out the cruft by themselves. That said, I will admit to having made snide posts in the past as well but I try not to make personal attacks.
    1999 K2 OzM 2001 Aegis Aro Svelte OCP Club Member
    "Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send." -- Jon Postel, RFC1122

  3. #3
    Virtulized geek MsMittens's Avatar
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    BWAHAAHAHAHAHAHA... sorry. I have to giggle. This is a long debated issue on the Internet since the "floodgates" were opened to the mass populace around 1995/96 and the flavour of the internet went from sharing information to advertising. What you are referring to is Netiquette or just plain, ol' fashioned common sense.

    It won't happen, unfortunately. And as stated above, it cannot be enforced. Well it could but it would make the environment far less open and would mean EVERY POST would have to be approved by a moderated.


    I got two emails and a personal message yesterday after the incident an all three said, “Ignore this person they are just trying to push your buttons.”
    That's actually sound advice. Take the high road as it were. As frustrating as it is, they are attempting to "get your goat" as it were. If you feel it was particularly offensive, however, there is a report feature that you should use. It's usually (unless this one has been hacked) sent to all moderators. If it's one of the mods, then send a PM to the Admin.

    Lastly, you don't have to take what they say here. There is always a way out. If reporting isn't a solution or not your first choice, go to your Control Panel and use the Ignore User function (it's there for this exact reason). If it still bothers you (and as much as I dislike suggesting this) go to another forum and use a different alias (avoids someone deliberately tracking you down).

    One thing to keep in mind is that written words are sometimes interpreted by how WE see them, not necessarily in the manner of how the writer wrote them. Scarcasm and other vocal tricks don't translate well here, with or without smilies to help. So one thing you might consider is, sending the individual in question a PM and asking them if the way you interpretted their message is in fact what they want to portray to you. And if that was the case, why?

    Anyways, I'm rambling but perhaps some more food for thought?

  4. #4
    ex frame builder
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    Last edited by Dave Moulton; 03-12-05 at 06:56 AM.

  5. #5
    Real riders break wind. pedal's Avatar
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    It's the internet. Arguing with strangers on it is pointless.
    "When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that
    the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me."

    -- Emo Philips

  6. #6
    more ape than man timmhaan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pedal
    It's the internet. Arguing with strangers on it is pointless.
    and where one argument ends, another will surely arise. this is why i rarely go into the policitics and religion forum.

  7. #7
    Guest
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    Sorry Dave.

    We all get it. I get so much hate mail I have unopened hate mail that I KNOW is coming from someone who just hates my guts. Sometimes I strike back like the empire, and other times, I just report the post and let the other mods handle it how they feel like they'd like to handle it (not every complaint they get is followed, which can be maddening at times, but we have to go with the consensus). But I am really working on even responding when someone starts a flame- I've been playing very nice the past few weeks! If you feel like somone's harassing you, just drop us a PM or hit the report button on the bottom right side of the post, and we'll handle it from there if we can. But idiot responses and bad tempered posts are generally something left alone, unless there is an attack or a flame. Some people know how to debate intelligently, and others debate like children. If you feel like someone's debating like they have the intellect of a stick of wood, best to ignore it- if it's one sided, they'll be less likely to participate again, since no one would respond to the barb.

    Anytime you feel like there may be other mitigating factors, drop any of the mods a PM- if you don't know who all the mods are, click on any blue star next to a member's name, and it will list off all the mods.

    P.S. Skip the Politics and Religion forum. It gets ridiculous in there at times...

    Koffee

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  8. #8
    ex frame builder
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    Last edited by Dave Moulton; 03-12-05 at 06:57 AM.

  9. #9
    Email for new group DnvrFox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Moulton
    Thanks; I'm going to use that.
    The absolute, biggest insult you can give someone is NOT replying to their post.

    It has taken me awhile to learn this, but if ALL of us ignored those posts, the posters would soon stop out of frustration. All they are seeking is attention, and we willingly give them that when we respond.

    In situations involving profanity, etc., I just report the post to a moderator and they quietly remove it.

    Thanks, moderators.
    Gone - email me at dnvrfox@aol.com for new group of old 50+ folks

  10. #10
    Senior Member royalflash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Moulton
    A simple code of ethics would be: “Don’t say anything you would not say to the person’s face.”
    one of the great things about the internet is that we can write what we really think and not what we think other people want to read. Not like life where we often end up saying what we think people want to hear because we are afraid of upsetting them or we think they can do us some good.

  11. #11
    ex frame builder
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    Last edited by Dave Moulton; 03-12-05 at 06:57 AM.

  12. #12
    H23
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    All of us will eventually (or have already) said stupid and/or offensive things on forums.

    Just let it slide. After all, it is little more than electrons hitting a piece of glass.


    If you really want to have intelligent discussion where high quality information is exchanged and where people actually admit to having their minds changed by a good persuasive argument, the best venue would be a moderated forum.

  13. #13
    ex frame builder
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    Last edited by Dave Moulton; 03-12-05 at 06:58 AM.

  14. #14
    Virtulized geek MsMittens's Avatar
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    Why not just stick with the old adage, “If you can’t say something nice; say nothing at all.”
    What if sometimes you really need to tell them that they are %$&@*(&$@#)? Are you telling me you'd be all sweet to someone like Osama?! Sometimes there is a need to insult someone. A good poster is someone who can insult you and you'd thank them for it (the old good flames that use to occur on news groups are prime examples of this).

    And always remember Godwin's Law.

    (I remember the "good ol' days" of the internet when people actually knew how to spell and I didn't have to decipher their "leet" message -- a specific peeve of mine since I get occassional essays written entirely in IM).

  15. #15
    DEADBEEF khuon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MsMittens
    (I remember the "good ol' days" of the internet when people actually knew how to spell and I didn't have to decipher their "leet" message -- a specific peeve of mine since I get occassional essays written entirely in IM).
    The good old days weren't always that good. There's a reason such things as the USENET Guide to Power Posting and the complimentary USENET Flame Formletter have been around since time immemorium.

    Perhaps we could persuade Joe to turn the flame formletter into a function of the reply/report feature.
    1999 K2 OzM 2001 Aegis Aro Svelte OCP Club Member
    "Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send." -- Jon Postel, RFC1122

  16. #16
    Virtulized geek MsMittens's Avatar
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    Oh those so rock! I love 'em!! They're getting bookmarked for future use... MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA...

  17. #17
    Chairman of the Bored catatonic's Avatar
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    hey we all have those moments....actually there is a pretty funny animation that poke fun at the stupid things online. http://demandmedia.net/story/2004/8/13/18037/9310 (link has some crude language, so be warned about r rating here)

    I know ive been angered as well as have angered, but thats just how things go...you either try to patch it up, or let it go.

  18. #18
    I couldn't car less. jeff williams's Avatar
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    Thanks cat, that is a sweet movie.

  19. #19
    DEADBEEF khuon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MsMittens
    MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA...
    Hey! You've intimidated me by your use of rule #9!
    1999 K2 OzM 2001 Aegis Aro Svelte OCP Club Member
    "Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send." -- Jon Postel, RFC1122

  20. #20
    Virtulized geek MsMittens's Avatar
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    Hey! You've intimidated me by your use of rule #9!
    That only works if I have Star Wars: Empire Strikes Back music in the background..

  21. #21
    don d.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Moulton
    Why not just stick with the old adage, “If you can’t say something nice; say nothing at all.”
    Of course this follows the old adage, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." When one asks people not to flame on their thread, then flames someone on another thread, what can they expect?

    I think Harry Truman was thinking of the internet when he said, " If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen."

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Moulton
    ...arguing with strangers on the Internet is even more pointless.

    I've seen this expressed somewhat more directly on another messageboard, to wit:

    "Arguments on messageboards are like the Special Olympics. No matter who wins, you're all still ********."

    Having been recently been drawn into my first cycling-forums pigfight, I will admit that I don't always remeber this sage, if somewhat offensive, advice. But if you think it's bad here, you should have a look at boards where registration is not required or posts can be made by anonymous registrants! The fact that here, posts are always associated with (admittedly made-up) names keeps things fairly civilized.

  23. #23
    Out of breath again. suntreader's Avatar
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    I'm with Dave on this one. I'm sure many of us were disappointed in the way that thread unfolded, especially in light of Dave's well-earned reputation as a builder of world class frames. C'mon... arguing with Dave about frame measurements is like arguing with Eric Clapton about playing guitar.

    I've been zapped by the same person three times now, including once today. In each case, the writer's words were intended to insult instead of enlighten. They had nothing to do with the original post, nor did they offer any new content that would have enhanced the discussion in any meaningful way. I've rewarded him by placing his screen name in my Ignore List.

    I don't understand why anyone would want to misuse the Bike Forums by insulting other participants... but then I don't understand why anyone would want to spraypaint railroad cars or kick over trash cans either.

    Sure, we all says things from time to time that may not sit right with our fellow readers, but some of this can be attributed to the fact that we are a global community with different ways of expressing ourselves. What's funny to a person living in New South Wales might not be funny at all to someone living in Idaho... and visa versa.

    Fortunately, I think most of us are generous enough to overlook cultural differences or the occasional slip of the tongue. Likewise, I think there is plenty of room in these forums for extremely divergent opinions. If my well-reasoned point of view contradicts your well-reasoned point of view, there's nothing that says we have to be enemies because of that. After all, don't we have something very important in common... the love of bicycles and bicycle riding?

    I think khuon is right in saying that we can't legislate decency, but I also think that DnvrFox is equally correct in saying that we can control how we react to to indecency. People who post rude or insulting messages are dying to get in a flame war because it makes them feel important and it probably decreases their boredom. The best way to fight them is to completely ignore them, no matter how inappropriate or insulting their comments might be. Eventually, they'll get the message. If they don't, the Mods will get them.

  24. #24
    Email for new group DnvrFox's Avatar
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    Well stated.

    Completely ignoring someone sends the message

    "You are so unimportant and insignificant that I won't even take the time to acknowledge your post!"
    Gone - email me at dnvrfox@aol.com for new group of old 50+ folks

  25. #25
    Senior Member royalflash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DnvrFox
    Well stated.

    Completely ignoring someone sends the message

    "You are so unimportant and insignificant that I won't even take the time to acknowledge your post!"
    yes but how do you if people are really ignoring you or just could not think of any response (I hope someone responds to this )

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