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Welding Recommendations

Old 06-29-15, 09:12 AM
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Welding Recommendations

I'm interested in learning how to weld bike frames and am considering different TIG welders right now. From what I've researched so far, it seems like a 130 Amp TIG welder should be plenty for Bike frames and up to 3/4 inch steel. My experience level in welding is zero, so please keep this in mind before you bash me. I've tried to do as much research as I can but still have some unresolved questions.

Do I need to get a gas or stick TIG welder? Here is a welder that looks about right for my intended purposes and price range.

Sears.com

I'd like to keep everything under $500 if possible meaning everything I need to get started (welder helmet, etc.) Any welder recommendations for my price range?
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Old 06-29-15, 09:37 AM
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Hand held filler wire seems the usual way of doing what is a pretty short Bead ..

The Tank for the Inert gas will not be part of the Sears deal, you put a Deposit/Buy on the 1st tank with your welding gas supplier .
and exchange the empty tank for a full one there after..
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Old 06-29-15, 10:13 AM
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Okay I see. So it seems like you need some type of gas no matter what kind of TIG welder you go with and likely some kind of regulator. Is there any disadvantages to wire feed, or is it just over kill for shorter beads?

I assume handheld allows for more precision?
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Old 06-29-15, 10:23 AM
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Let me list a few terms you'll likely encounter when looking at welders.

  • CC: Constant Current (TIG and Stick)
  • CV: Constant Voltage (MIG)
  • TIG: Tungsten, Inert Gas.
    This is the most commonly used with bicycles. Much like oxygen/acetylene welding, the torch is held in one hand, the filler is added with the other.
  • MIG: Metal Inert Gas
    Good for general purpose welding. The welding wire is on a spool and melts with the arc.
    One can also use flux core wire without an inert gas shielding.
  • Stick Welding.
    One uses a flux coated welding rod, no shielding gas. The flux has to be chipped off later. Good for rough welding projects, and thicker metals.
    Note, both TIG and Stick use CC, so they are often listed togeter.
  • Scratch start (lift start). With Tig welding, one must physically touch the electrode to the metal to start an arc.
  • High frequency start / arc stabilization. Most common on the moderate to high value TIG welders. No need to physically do the "scratch start".
  • AC vs DC. Steel TIG welding is always DC. Aluminum TIG welding requires AC or Square wave. Some cheaper stick welder (buzz boxes) also use AC, but most is now DC.


So, since Stick and TIG both use a CC power supply, they are often listed together, but are very different processes.

That little Sears TIG welder looks like a nice small 110V/220V machine. Its major limitation is that it doesn't include high frequency start, and that it is DC only, and thus only capable of welding steel, and not Aluminum.
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Old 06-29-15, 03:44 PM
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Ive had welders say they can tell how many cups of coffee were consumed by the even ness of the bead puddles.



Most community colleges have welding classes .. though they may focus on the techniques to get industrial work

A Job, not feed your hobby aspirations ..

there are frame building classes too, UBT in Ashland Oregon has One ..

Last edited by fietsbob; 07-04-15 at 04:02 PM.
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Old 06-30-15, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob
Ive had welders say they can tell how many cups of coffee were consumed by the even ness of the bead puddles.

Haha. I guess it's either stop drinking 5 cups of coffee per day or have even beads. I think I will take the coffee (and some beers as well).
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Old 06-30-15, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK
Let me list a few terms you'll likely encounter when looking at welders.

  • CC: Constant Current (TIG and Stick)
  • CV: Constant Voltage (MIG)
  • TIG: Tungsten, Inert Gas.
    This is the most commonly used with bicycles. Much like oxygen/acetylene welding, the torch is held in one hand, the filler is added with the other.
  • MIG: Metal Inert Gas
    Good for general purpose welding. The welding wire is on a spool and melts with the arc.
    One can also use flux core wire without an inert gas shielding.
  • Stick Welding.
    One uses a flux coated welding rod, no shielding gas. The flux has to be chipped off later. Good for rough welding projects, and thicker metals.
    Note, both TIG and Stick use CC, so they are often listed togeter.
  • Scratch start (lift start). With Tig welding, one must physically touch the electrode to the metal to start an arc.
  • High frequency start / arc stabilization. Most common on the moderate to high value TIG welders. No need to physically do the "scratch start".
  • AC vs DC. Steel TIG welding is always DC. Aluminum TIG welding requires AC or Square wave. Some cheaper stick welder (buzz boxes) also use AC, but most is now DC.


So, since Stick and TIG both use a CC power supply, they are often listed together, but are very different processes.

That little Sears TIG welder looks like a nice small 110V/220V machine. Its major limitation is that it doesn't include high frequency start, and that it is DC only, and thus only capable of welding steel, and not Aluminum.

Thank you. That was very informative. This is out of my price range, but if I want to include some of the features you described as well as aluminum welding capability, it would seem to be a good bet. See here:

TIG Welder | TIG Welders | TIG Welding ? Eastwood TIG 200 AC/DC Welder

Seems like it has decent reviews and would be more than I need to get started with a new hobby.
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Old 07-03-15, 02:37 PM
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You could also check Craiglist or such for used equipment. You might get a better deal, with "extras" included, and if you're lucky, a quick demo of set-up and use.
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Old 07-04-15, 10:19 PM
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That unit does seem to have the basics. Something you will probably want right away is pulse control. You will hear expert welders tell you that it isn't needed, but that is part of why they are experts. TIG welding is hard enough to learn on your own. Also, the guy who says he pulses with the pedal was probably using a very nice old school welder, and it it had a nice pedal. The one with that machine looks very basic.

Making bicycles is probably the most expensive hobby I ever got into. And my first few years were spent trying every short cut and cheap method out there, but in the end I settled for some decent gear.

TIG is also one thing were you are better to spend it once. If you get the wrong machine, you have to spend all that money again. Admittedly the Eastwood machine can be returned, but 30 days is not really enough for a home dude to know what isn't working.

If you mostly want to make a bike, get a small torch that runs oxy propane, and fillet, or lug your bike. Most tig guys have that anyway as there are certain things one may not want to tig.

TIG stands for tungsten inert gas, so you will need argon. Normally the welder comes with a regulator.

I would look into Everlast welders, and find a unit with both pulse and HF start, in AC DC.
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Old 07-04-15, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by OrangeSoma
I'm interested in learning how to weld bike frames and am considering different TIG welders right now. From what I've researched so far, it seems like a 130 Amp TIG welder should be plenty for Bike frames and up to 3/4 inch steel. My experience level in welding is zero, so please keep this in mind before you bash me. I've tried to do as much research as I can but still have some unresolved questions.
Normally on steel 1 amp per thou in DC. So theoretically you can weld 1/8 in a single pass. How much work you can get done that way is going to depend on whether those numbers are for real, and the duty cycle, etc... In many situations you can work from both sides, and you can use multiple passes. That said those are techniques for certain tasks. When you weld in the home environment, bikes aside, I would say you can get a lot done with small welds and for projects where nobody's life is at stake. So if you weld a stand for a frame jig, even bad welds can be enormously strong, and nobody dies if they fall over. Bike welding is high end welding, but the practice is fun, so you can work on mastering that one process.

Your local EAA chapter may be able to help you learn what you need to know as more and more aircraft guys are using TIG, though typically gas welding was preferred.

Since tubes are in the 35 range that is enough power, sort of. You may want to set high and pedal low. More sophisticated machines can do all sorts of things, so the exact amperage you are using at various time can vary. My first welder was 140 amp and it was fine as far as that went.

Do I need to get a gas or stick TIG welder?
When you buy a TIG weder, it uses gas to prottect the steel from oxydation at welding temps. As was mentioned, these machines manage current, and you can use a stick welding lead with the same machine.

Theoretically you can weld bikes with stick, and I have an article on that hidden somewhere in the Touring section. But other than emergencies, nobody does it. Stick is still highly useful and can change your life. All of a sudden you can tack and weld structural steel, and make all kinds of stuff for your shop quickly. Stick is fun, will burn through cruds of various kinds (though some crud is poisonous and clean welding is the best way to go). And it works well out of doors where the inert gas will normally get blown away. So it is useful to have but largely irrelevant to bike building.


I'd like to keep everything under $500 if possible meaning everything I need to get started (welder helmet, etc.) Any welder recommendations for my price range?
Things have never been cheaper but I couldn't do it for that.
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