Andrew R Stewart 

This winter I hope to build touring frames for wife and I. Based on 559 wheels, long trail and no couplers (as I first planned on). The progress will be my usual slow one. I have a few new tools to try out during this project and want to enjoy the process. But for now here's a shot of the first brazings. The frames will be filleted,. I struggled with the fork crown choices to match the fillets on the frames. I can't/never have done a unicrown and didn't want the taller axle to race seat length that usually comes with unicrowns. But a socketed crown wasn't going to match the fashion of fillets elsewhere either. I considered a plate type of crown but just couldn't wrap my head around that style, the open interior and many more edges and corners didn't seem right. So back to a socketed crown. the Everest LC33 does have some rounder features then some and enough width and cross section to work for a loaded tourer. First I have to fill the triangular cut outs... Andy

duanedr 

I'm building #4 which will be a fillet MTB for my older son to get to school on. I'm using the same crown but apparently don't have the same aesthetic purity as you have! I'm leaving the cut outs. On #2 , I filled the cut outs in with silver after the fork was done. Is there a benefit to filling them in before putting the blades in?

Will you use cantis or discs?

Look forward to following the build!

Andrew R Stewart 

duanedr- I'm considering putting a simple hole centered on where the cut out was. Perhaps contouring the socket's tip to match the hole's curve. Not sure yet and it will be a few days at least before I need to do anything about it so I have time to think. It's also good practice for both brazing and for future lug carving. Cantis, but wait till you see how I treat them. Andy.

JohnDThompson 

I used a Takahashi internally lugged crown to replace the "death fork" on my Viscount. The look is quite consistent with the rest of the lugless frame, but it doesn't have the clearance you'd want for a full-on touring frame.

ksisler

Along with several others, SKU #EVR_FCCX_286_W70 from Nova Cycles might be worth looking at. It is super strong, has lots of width for fatter tires & is not too spendy. They have some suggestions also for those wanting to extend it for gronzo high strength uses. With some file work, it can be made relatively attractive.

/K

Andrew R Stewart 

K- Yes I know of this crown. I actually have a couple of even more swoopy double plate ones (Pacenti MTB) which I considered for the dimensions but felt the greater number of edges didn't go with fillet work elsewhere. But I have a rather different sense of aesthetics I've come to understand... Andy.

Andrew R Stewart 

Slow but continuing progress. I'm at the point where the two frames stop parallel work and one goes forward (as I have only one full frame jig). By week's end I should be ready to braze up the first frame's main triangle. But before I do i'll have a few more practice joints. As the Flicker shots show I'm still running a tad hot with my torch work. Over all I'm happy with my pace. I've made some set up errors but stop and realize that something is wrong, scratch my head and sometimes walk away. Then I discover what's amiss and correct, then move forward. So far no real drama...

The shot attached isn't in the Flicker album. Just a tease. Andy.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/731955...57658194060433

Tandem Tom

Andrew,Someday I would like to build a frame! But in the meantime I have a question? You mentioned your torch was too VB hot. What does that make the joint look like? As a woodworker brazing is a mystery to me!

Andrew R Stewart 

The torch is as hot as A/O is when burning. It's the control of how much of this energy gets into the work piece that's at "fault". Too hot a brazing will cook flux (preventing the filler to flow where the burned flux is), boil off the copper (resulting in a weaker filler), possibly change the base metal's structure into one that's less able to handle the stresses of riding. Running a hot joint makes the clean up take longer too as blackened flux is harder to remove then simple soaking off properly heated flux, not to mention the greater likelihood of filler build up where you don't want it (and the cosmetic need to file down said blobs).

Take these two photos as example. Both how after flux soak off but no other finishing The head tube brazings are fairly clean of blackening, show no copper run off. The seat stay top cap shows lots of flux burn but no copper boiling. This second brazing got a bit hotter then ideal. Andy.

Andrew R Stewart 

Tom- It's too bad that we didn't "meet" 20 years ago when I lived in Cleveland Hts. I'd be happy to show you a few frame building things in person. Andy.

fietsbob

'New' Equipment (its been out for a decade +) adds flux to the flame coming out of the torch head.. ..

Andrew R Stewart 

Bob- Yes, inline fluxers do exist. I have used one on and off since my beginnings. First an Allstate then a GasFlux model. But brazing prep and technique are the larger issues IMO. Besides it's the heat energy the joint sees that's what's important as far as the material's fatigue life, assuming a well designed joint otherwise. I have seen very few actual filler failures over the years. A few poor brazings (and maybe poor prep...) but a lot more failures of the tube adjacent to the joint. The fluxer changes the flame color and some can't get past that. Fluxers have their toll on the valves and hoses in your system. Other reasons many don't bother with them. Andy.

duanedr 

QUOTE=Andrew R Stewart;18318949][/QUOTE]

I have to ask what the wires are going up from the top of the tube?

8aaron8

I have enjoyed watching this unravel on Flickr

JohnDThompson 

We used inline flux from Gasflux at Trek 30+ years ago…

Andrew R Stewart 

I have to ask what the wires are going up from the top of the tube?[/QUOTE]

The "wires" are pins (actually nails) to hold the reinforcing rings in place. Andy.

ksisler

Andy; I suspect you fooled a lot of readers by bending the pins up to give you more clearance to fillet away at the joints. I used finishing nails or coat-hanger wire for a long time, but recently I bough a kit with a big can of special nails specifically for frame building. It was an impulse buy. After I get a chance to try them out, I'll post results. Given the truism that a fool and his money are soon parted, the results might just be a proof of that.
/K

duanedr 

yes, the bend threw me off. Thanks

Andrew R Stewart 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/731955...57658194060433

Link to updated Flicker set.

More progress this holiday weekend (hope you all had a good turkey). I brazed up the main triangle of the first of the two frames. I felt my filleting was nicer then the practice joints I've done recently but after flux is soaked off I see the need for much clean up with files for smooth. Oh well. Here's a shot that's not in the set. Andy.

Andrew R Stewart 

It was the best of productive times and it was the worst of doing nothing (apologies to Dickens). This last month had spurts of a lot with weeks+ of pausing between. Such is the hobby builder... Chain stays are attached to shell and fork is one unit now. Here's a shot of today's after brazing but before filing. While the fillet looks a bit rough on the surface the actual contoures were pretty good with only one real pock for pre paint Bondo. See previous Flicker link for the set. Andy

Andrew R Stewart 

Updated shots on Flicker https://www.flickr.com/photos/731955...57658194060433 Seat stays and fork canti bosses in the works.

As I come toward the end of this frame, the first of a "matched" pair and have been posting shots along the way I wonder if there are any steps/shots that some of you might want further details of or more explanations. Please ask for specific or added shots. As I complete the second of the pair I have many opportunities to show more details or steps. Andy.

unterhausen

Andy,
It looks like you extended the rear dropouts into the chainstays. What was the reasoning?

Andrew R Stewart 

Eric- I think what you see is the relieved section of the RH rear drop out to allow for cog clearance. To get this amount od stay "loss" I added an extension to the chain stay tab, cut it down to fit the needed clearance and did the brazing as usual. Then filed the clearance area to make it look nice. There are a few shots of this process early in the stream. Two drop outs are shown because I'm making two frames and doing the same steps for both at times to save time. The LH drop out is not done this way. Yesterday I prepped the seat stays. As the drop outs (CoMotion "brand") have a dog leg for the seat stay tab no such relief for clearance is needed. Andy.

unterhausen

I get it, you're right, seeing 2 dropouts did confuse me. Event though they are both drive side

Andrew R Stewart 

Status update time. Attached is a boring shot of frame #2 's fillets before filing. The new shots on my Flicker album include a few of the basement shop and a bike I made 34 years ago that's still being ridden. https://www.flickr.com/photos/731955...57658194060433 Andy.