jade408

So I am going back and forth on getting myself an awesome 40th b-day gift. Part of me thinks it would be super awesome to get a custom frame. The other part of me thinks it probably isn't really practical for my typical bike uses (and leaving it out on the street.)

I don't want lots of bikes.

Mine fits pretty well, I really only have 2 things that I really really would want in a custom frame.
1. Internal cable routing for my dynamo front light
2. Eliminate the slight toe overlap I have in tight turns

Bonus: be a little less "wobbly" when parked and loaded with stuff in my front rack

What I'd like to know, can these thing be addressed by changing to a custom fork with those ideas in mind? Maybe adjusting the rake to kill the toe overlap. And adding some connectors and holes for wiring?

Am I off base here, or is this a good use case for a new fork?

*and I could get custom racks instead.

fietsbob

Schmidt SL hubs place the electrical contacts in the face of the fork Tip SON SL and the wire runs up inside the fork.

Toe overlap Gets cured >. at the frame end-Longer top tube , or the wheel end-Smaller wheel.

Just Adding more rake reduces the trail .. wheel moves forward but the steering feel changes as a result.


My Koga with a Kickstand plade, has a Low rider Kickstand, # 2 , now tubus offers something like that
for Their Low rider racks

tubus - Ständer mit Adapterplatte für Lowrider





./.

jade408

Right now my bike has 650b wheels and a pretty long top tube (for size). I have a bit of toe overlap with my fenders. Not more than an inch.

Definitely only noticeable in slow turns.

It might be really hard to kill toe overlap with fenders. Not so sure.

But it sounds like I might be able to eliminate the messy wire.

As for handling? I have a front rack and generally a 10# front load. Lower trail might be better for my usage anyway.

Thanks for the tips fietsbob.

unterhausen

if you get a custom fork, it could solve all 3 of your issues. I just saw someone assert that low trail results in less wheel flop, so if true, that's the third point. It's trivial to have internal wiring, but you have to figure out where the wires are going. Putting it on the rack means that the wires wouldn't go through the fork very far. Finally, getting more clearance really depends on how much trail you have now. Not sure that you want so much rake, but a builder should be able to tell you .

Do you know what your rake is now?

jade408

Today my wires are looped around the fork from the hub, the light is mounted on my front porteur rack - on of the stays. I have a shutter precision hub.

Current rake is 45mm.

unterhausen

I assume this is for the Buena Vista. Do you know which size frame you have? I see the head angle varies all over the place on those.

The other problem is that a fork costs quite a bit, most people charge around $400. Don't know if there is a stock fork with the right axle/crown measurement that will decrease the trail.

I use Gorilla repair tape to run light wires. Just go straight up the fork and hold it down with clear tape. It comes out really neat.

jade408

Yup it is the Buena vista. I have the 54cm. $400+ is fine! Would be a b-day gift to myself.

ypsetihw

get a better kickstand for parking or lean your bike on things. position your feet correctly to negate toe overlap. just tape down the dynamo wires.

adjusting the fork geometry will completely change the feel and handling of the bike. YMMV

fietsbob

Rake is just part of trail, which is a ground plane distance between the line thru the head tube angle
and the Plumb Line down from the axle ,,

one option in a fork is increase the distance Below the fork crown race to the fork blade tips
as you reduce the radius of the wheel By Opting for a smaller wheel whose smaller radius
will move the clearance to the Mudguard forward ..

Longer blades , or below the crown race the fork would have a thick tube down to shorter fork blades

so the relative distance from the top of the wheel to the fork crown is relatively the same ..

" suspension corrected forks" do this so the frame head tube angle does not steepen as it is dropped.
a frame builder could custom make such a fork , and also have the option to lower the C-of-G of the load in your Porteur rack.
another benefit of using a smaller front wheel ..
Georgina Terry use 24" front wheels in bikes with full size rear wheels 700c..

Though her frames, in their design, with shorter fork blades,
lowered the whole Crown lower Headset and used a Longer head tube and fork steerer
as the smaller wheel was being planned for..





./.

Andrew R Stewart 

And Terry based her steering geometry on what Bill Boston calls "castor angle" (the angle of the virtual line, relative to the ground, that runs from the front axle and to the tire's contact point with the ground). I could tell you more but we'd both be killed then Andy.

unterhausen

many people like the handling of low-trail better than high trail. So the OP may get 4 benefits out of it. Low-trail is better with front loads, which is one thing the OP wants. I think this would be a good upgrade to the bike

CliffordK

What kind of fork do you have?

You might be able to drill out a unicrown fork for internal wiring. Then if you have a threadless stem somehow bring the wires out the top of the stem. It would be a fun mod to attempt.

jade408

I have a relatively upgraded kickstand - a two legged one. And I have one of those wheel stabilizers. It helps, unless I have way too much unbalanced stuff. It is a nice to have for me and seems like lower trail makes a lot of sense for my usage anyway.

For me, a handling change would have minimal impact. I guess what I mean is, I notice that some bikes handle differently, I can adjust to the differences pretty quickly and I don't have a lot of preferences there. I've ridden bikes with more steering on either side of the spectrum.

I've heard this a bunch and I'd be game to try. It seems like a net positive for me!

I have whatever fork came in the frameset for my Soma Buena Vista. I don't know a whole ton about these things, but based on everyone's comments it sounds like I could go to a frame builder, explain my predicament and get a new fork. And the fork could improve or maybe resolve my biggest challenges.

CliffordK

It looks like it has a standard cast crown. It is probably mostly hollow, but would likely need to have two holes drilled at the crown for the internal cable routing which could be difficult to do without disassembling.

Aftermarket unicrown forks should be generally available, and would only need a single hole cut/drilled at the bottom of the steer tube, and another hole where the cable enters.

Your bike does have the 1 1/8" threadless steer tube (I think) so you should be able to figure out how to get the cable out the top, or possibly even below the bars if you have spacers below the bars.

I'm not sure about the toe overlap. The Buena Vista comes in a variety of sizes. Perhaps the easiest thing to do would be to purchase the next size larger frame, and adjust the stem & seat to your comfort.

jade408

The next size larger would be way too big! I went up a size already! My seat is low for the frame. Bigger would be impossible! I did all of the "frame size" ways to eliminate toe overlap. And I still have a bit. This is one of the reasons that I thought about a custom frame. I might be weirdly portioned or something. Every bike I have tried as an adult has toe overlap. My current config is the closest I have come to not having it.

Right now my lights are mounted on the rack stay! The front one is the bothersome one, the rear light cable is well hidden.

Here is a pic where the light cabling is visible.


If I did this sort of fork project, I'd want matching paint, the same mounting options etc, etc.... my bike is pretty non "stock" as it is.

So it comes back to 3 options
1. Do nothing
2. Custom fork
3. Custom frame

CliffordK

Hmmmm...

You could end up spending a LOT of money on a custom frame.

It is hard to tell how far the wheel is in front of the pedals, but it looks like a fair amount of clearance.

Perhaps something like half toeclips would help with shoe positioning.

https://www.rei.com/product/872099/n...less-toe-clips



I've got a fair amount of toe overlap with one bike (using forward placed SPD cleats). I regularly hit the toe on the tire when starting, which an be a bit of a pain, but NEVER when actually riding, even on slow hills.

CliffordK

As far as the light, is it staying mounted under the rack, or being moved? No reason to route cables internal to the fork if light is mounted to the rack.

The rack supports may be hollow, but probably not designed for the cable.

Oh, rear light too. Retrofitting for internally routed cable would be a pain.

Maybe you could use the REELIGHT on the rear with no wires.
https://www.reelight.com/en/

squirtdad

where are you located (408 suggests to me San Jose area) If so you could talk to the guys as Silva Silva Cycles they do complete custom frames, are a Rivendell stocking dealer, do a lot of touring, rando, cargo type stuff (and unicyles). they could do a fork or give you other ideas

jade408

I wear all sorts of shoes on my bike! Toe clips are quite restrictive. I like to swap my foots position around.

I get toe overlap near the top of the pedal stroke, during certain turns, but I haven't quantified it yet. I probably have hard proportions to fit on a stock frame. Long legs, really short torso, longish arms. I'm 5'4". My pubic bone height is 81cm.

While I haven't decided about the custom frame thing, there is lots of appeal for me:
1. design / aesthetics
2. handmade
3. custom and premium
4. perfect fit

I like having a dynamo, reelights are complicated and limited in comparison. I don't mind the rear wire. The front one is the one that bothers me. I am not married to the light placement. But it sounds like there may be a way to route the light in a rack.

Ideal state is limiting visible wires.

I live in Oakland these days, SJ is a little far, and far in the worn direction. Seems like a great shop.

I still have some deciding to do, but I am in no big hurry, thus milestone b-day is in over a year.

GamblerGORD53

I had the same fenders with some toe overlap. Instant gonzo to the front one.
That bit of wire showing is no big deal for me, it is on the rack after all. Mine is way worse.
Putting holes in the fork or frame is just a bad idea. IMO
As for custom, I doubt they would change the fit much. It looks just fine to me. Maybe the stem could be shortened and TT lengthened.
Switching the wheel and shifter to or from a Rohloff would be no problem.

jade408

I am not sure what to do at all! It is not urgent by any means, but the idea of a really really clean look is appealing to me. Of course that means more $$$.

It seems like, to summarize:
Wiring: iffy
Toe overlap: potentially

And yes, swapping the rear hub is easy enough to do on my existing frame, it is just a question if I want to. It also seems likes most of the Alfine 11 hiccups are not so serious. That might be the an option too! Crappy shifter choices though.

unterhausen

plenty of people put holes in the frame/fork for wiring, it's not a problem. But if you look at your picture, the wiring would only be hidden for a few inches unless you got a custom rack with internal wiring.

jade408

I am not married to my rack. It is an experiment. But if I decide to go custom fork.....there is more budget to scope a custom rack! Or more accurately I can do all of the stuff sooner and keep my current bike.

But I'll have to keep mulling over my potential requirements.

ThermionicScott 

@jade408, where does your toe actually contact the fender? If you're primarily hitting the fender stay, VO had a blog post a while back about using their R-clips instead of the eyebolts. It does get you an extra 5mm or so, and I have a few extras I'd send for no cost since I lost one pack, ordered another, and then found the first one.

Another option is to have a trusted framebuilder add more rake to your current fork by bending more of a curve into the blades. Done carefully, it won't ripple the metal, might not even crinkle the paint. It decreases the axle-to-crown clearance, but you appear to have plenty. You might chat with @gugie about it.

- Scott

gugie 

Reading your thread, your three issues are:

1. Internal cable routing for my dynamo front light
2. Eliminate the slight toe overlap I have in tight turns
3. A little less "wobbly" when parked and loaded with stuff in my front rack

All three could be addressed with a new fork with more rake. The last two could be addressed just by adding some rake to your current fork. With 45mm of rake and a 73 degree head tube angle, adding about 15mm more of rake would get your trail pretty close to 35mm, which is a good sweet spot for trail. Note that the online calculators will come up with a different number than that, because they don't take into consideration the front end drop and change in head tube angle. I've done enough rerakes on my jig to have a good model of it.

Here are the caveats to reraking: you need enough room between the fork crown and your fender to account for the shortening of the axle to crown distance. Looking at your picture, I would say measure it, but it appears at first glance that you do. I can't tell for sure, but I'd say your using a daruma to hold the fender in place, correct? You might have to decrease the threaded bolt length, either cutting or grinding it down, and cleaning up the threads afterwards, else it may get closer to your tire than you'd like. The porteur rack would have to be adjusted, of course, but it's made to do that. I'm also guessing you powder coated your frame, along with the chain guard. If so, as long as you didn't try to do a real tight "french" bend rerake, I'd bet that the powder coat would stretch with the fork and be ok.

Rather than internal wiring in the fork, why not put it inside the rack? If it were in the fork, you'd still have to figure out how to route the wiring from the fork out to the rack, and only hide half of the current exposed wiring. If that porteur rack is stainless, it wouldn't be much work to rework it with provision for hidden wiring inside the stays, up under the rack, and pop out right near your light. If you relocated the light from the fender to the rack, it would be even less wire showing. If it's chrome plated, a new one could be made to match the features you like on the old one - it wouldn't be worth stripping, reworking and rechroming.

All of that would cost should cost less than $400, and I think it would be a cleaner wire routing.