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Framebuilders Thinking about a custom frame? Lugged vs Fillet Brazed. Different Frame materials? Newvex or Pacenti Lugs? why get a custom Road, Mountain, or Track Frame? Got a question about framebuilding? Lets discuss framebuilding at it's finest.

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Old 12-06-05, 11:16 AM   #1
aadhils
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Aaaah

Wow a frame builders forum. I think i'm gonna enjoy this won.

First topic wot!...
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Old 12-06-05, 12:10 PM   #2
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ooooooooooooooh!
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Old 12-06-05, 01:37 PM   #3
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Yeah. This rocks. A lot.
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Old 12-06-05, 02:19 PM   #4
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I have never built a frame, but I'm glad there's now a forum for this, because I want to within the next 5 or 6 years.

Hi everyone.
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Old 12-06-05, 03:53 PM   #5
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Framebuilder's forum = excellent idea. How about some custom build pics?
-Sean
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Old 12-07-05, 12:29 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Sean350
Framebuilder's forum = excellent idea. How about some custom build pics?
-Sean
Homebuilt project frame. Built with a mix of tubing from all four major producers: Dedacciai ZeroUno (chain stays), Reynolds 725 (seat stays), True Temper Verus (top tube), True Temper Platinum (seat tube), Columbus Foco (down tube). Frame uses super oversize tubes (one size larger than more common Over Size). Lugs had to be ordered from Ceeway in England due to large size. Drop-outs from Joe Bringheli.

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Old 12-07-05, 12:25 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Nessism
Homebuilt project frame. Built with a mix of tubing from all four major producers: Dedacciai ZeroUno (chain stays), Reynolds 725 (seat stays), True Temper Verus (top tube), True Temper Platinum (seat tube), Columbus Foco (down tube). Frame uses super oversize tubes (one size larger than more common Over Size). Lugs had to be ordered from Ceeway in England due to large size. Drop-outs from Joe Bringheli.

Great looking bike. How long did it take you? Was this your first build?
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Old 12-07-05, 02:20 PM   #8
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Great looking bike. How long did it take you? Was this your first build?
I've built eight frames so far (photos are from the latest). My guess is that it took about 50 hours including painting. The real time toilet for me was bending the lugs to the desired angles (down tube lug was a nightmare). Also, I had to do lots of rework on the seat lug since it was a stamped POS not a pretty casting like the head lugs.
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Old 12-08-05, 06:04 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nessism
Homebuilt project frame. Built with a mix of tubing from all four major producers: Dedacciai ZeroUno (chain stays), Reynolds 725 (seat stays), True Temper Verus (top tube), True Temper Platinum (seat tube), Columbus Foco (down tube). Frame uses super oversize tubes (one size larger than more common Over Size). Lugs had to be ordered from Ceeway in England due to large size. Drop-outs from Joe Bringheli.



Ooooo la la! Nice job Ness. What is super oversize bigger than oversize?
I'm guessing here, but is that a...
1 1/8" top tube?
1 1/4" down tube?
1 1/8" seat tube?
1 1/2" head tube to fit a... 1 1/8" fork steerer?
And why the mix of different tube brands?
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Old 12-08-05, 09:32 AM   #10
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Ooooo la la! Nice job Ness. What is super oversize bigger than oversize?
I'm guessing here, but is that a...
1 1/8" top tube?
1 1/4" down tube?
1 1/8" seat tube?
1 1/2" head tube to fit a... 1 1/8" fork steerer?
And why the mix of different tube brands?
1-1/4" top and seat tube
1-3/8" down tube
36mm head tube (for 1-1/8" steerer fork)

There isn't real clear reasoning for my tube selection....I had already built a similar frame using Columbus Zona down tube and chain stays and it turned out quite stiff. My plan for the new frame was to take a little weight out to see how it effects ride/stiffness. I substituted a lighter gauge Foco down tube and the ZeroUno chain stays which are lighter than their Zona counterparts. While I was at it I dug though my box of spares and found the Reynolds seat stays which were the lightest that I had on hand. I picked the True Temper seat tube because the lower butted section is long enough to extend up above where the front derailleur clamps which helps reduce chain rub (I think). That particular tube is actually a down tube which I had to ream out for the seat post to fit.

In the end the frame did turn out to have a smoother ride than the other frame. It's no noodle by any means but the ride difference is noticable to me. It also has more sway in the bottom bracket but not enough to be bothersome. Dispite the more flexable frame, I get less chain rub on the front derailleur because the newer frame has a new fangled integrated spindle crank/bottom bracket assembly (Dura Ace 10 speed). Those outboard bearings and large BB spindle really work!

Ed
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Old 12-08-05, 06:09 PM   #11
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Ed, that is a beautiful frame! I believe I like everything about it.

I am very pleased to see this forum opened because I'm seriously considering trying this. I've wanted to build my own frame since I was 14 or 15.
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Old 12-08-05, 07:17 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nessism
1-1/4" top and seat tube
1-3/8" down tube
36mm head tube (for 1-1/8" steerer fork)

There isn't real clear reasoning for my tube selection....I had already built a similar frame using Columbus Zona down tube and chain stays and it turned out quite stiff. My plan for the new frame was to take a little weight out to see how it effects ride/stiffness. I substituted a lighter gauge Foco down tube and the ZeroUno chain stays which are lighter than their Zona counterparts. While I was at it I dug though my box of spares and found the Reynolds seat stays which were the lightest that I had on hand. I picked the True Temper seat tube because the lower butted section is long enough to extend up above where the front derailleur clamps which helps reduce chain rub (I think). That particular tube is actually a down tube which I had to ream out for the seat post to fit.

In the end the frame did turn out to have a smoother ride than the other frame. It's no noodle by any means but the ride difference is noticable to me. It also has more sway in the bottom bracket but not enough to be bothersome. Dispite the more flexable frame, I get less chain rub on the front derailleur because the newer frame has a new fangled integrated spindle crank/bottom bracket assembly (Dura Ace 10 speed). Those outboard bearings and large BB spindle really work!

Ed



Hmm. Interesting about your experiences with less chain rub on a more flexy frame. Outboard crank bearings probably help. Do you think that also maybe your seat tube on this frame is stiffer than your seat tube on the other frame? Just curious, because I think the True Temper seat tube you used is larger diameter and perhaps thicker than the Zona seat tube. Maybe this helped with the stiffness, do you think?

BTW, what size frame is that? Looks like around a 53, 54, 55 c-c. Just wondering, but do you set things up center-to-center (per seattube) when you are building or center-to-top? That's just always been peculiar to me, why some bike compaines list things in c-c and some in c-t.
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Old 12-08-05, 11:50 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bellweatherman
Hmm. Interesting about your experiences with less chain rub on a more flexy frame. Outboard crank bearings probably help. Do you think that also maybe your seat tube on this frame is stiffer than your seat tube on the other frame? Just curious, because I think the True Temper seat tube you used is larger diameter and perhaps thicker than the Zona seat tube. Maybe this helped with the stiffness, do you think?

BTW, what size frame is that? Looks like around a 53, 54, 55 c-c. Just wondering, but do you set things up center-to-center (per seattube) when you are building or center-to-top? That's just always been peculiar to me, why some bike compaines list things in c-c and some in c-t.
The frame is approx. 54cm with a 5 degee sloping top tube. Regarding c-c and c-t, it doesn't matter really. C-T is more meaningful in terms of stand over clearance though since tube diameter isn't a factor.

The same seat tube was used on both frames so I know that did not have anything to do with the difference in stiffness.
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Old 12-09-05, 01:02 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Nessism
The frame is approx. 54cm with a 5 degee sloping top tube. Regarding c-c and c-t, it doesn't matter really. C-T is more meaningful in terms of stand over clearance though since tube diameter isn't a factor.

The same seat tube was used on both frames so I know that did not have anything to do with the difference in stiffness.


Oops, my bad. What I meant was, what is the effective size of the frame? I mean, had you gone with a traditional non-sloping (level top tube) design. Looks like it would be about a 57cm or 58cm? Is it? I'm just wondering b/c seems the frame almost looks to be my size, so I'm just trying to figure out how my next frame might look like with a sloping top tube. Which is nice, btw. I like how the top tube doesn't slope so much that it makes it look like a mtn bike.

Kenai? Is that your brand name? When do we expect to see Kenai frames on the market?
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Old 12-09-05, 09:14 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by bellweatherman
Oops, my bad. What I meant was, what is the effective size of the frame? I mean, had you gone with a traditional non-sloping (level top tube) design. Looks like it would be about a 57cm or 58cm? Is it? I'm just wondering b/c seems the frame almost looks to be my size, so I'm just trying to figure out how my next frame might look like with a sloping top tube. Which is nice, btw. I like how the top tube doesn't slope so much that it makes it look like a mtn bike.

Kenai? Is that your brand name? When do we expect to see Kenai frames on the market?
The frame in the question is 54 vitrual - actual is more like 51 (can't remember).

I'm just a garage builder, and likely to stay that way. A number of people have asked me to build frames for them but I've declined up to now for various reasons.

Kenai is an area in Alaska where my fathers family is from. The head badge is suspose to look like a totem figure in a parka hood. I choose that name because it has meaning to me and I didn't want to put my name on the bike.
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