Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Framebuilders Thinking about a custom frame? Lugged vs Fillet Brazed. Different Frame materials? Newvex or Pacenti Lugs? why get a custom Road, Mountain, or Track Frame? Got a question about framebuilding? Lets discuss framebuilding at it's finest.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-06-05, 10:25 PM   #1
paloewi
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Tokyo
Bikes:
Posts: 35
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
First time framebuilders

Hi! So, I am interested in learning to build frames, mostly as a hobby, though as a profession would be pretty sweet, because I would love to get paid anything to work with/on bikes. I was wondering about how/where to learn to build frames. There are like 7 or 8 professional framebuilders where I live (portland, or) and I know several of them, and have asked about learning and they were like 'I'd love to, but..."
I can't afford to but a custom bike, so I thought it would be awesome to build my own. Anyone got any tips on where/how to learn/practice?
thanks so much

Peter
paloewi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-05, 10:55 PM   #2
Scooper
Decrepit Member
 
Scooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Francisco California
Bikes: Waterford 953 RS-22
Posts: 10,136
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by paloewi
Hi! So, I am interested in learning to build frames, mostly as a hobby, though as a profession would be pretty sweet, because I would love to get paid anything to work with/on bikes. I was wondering about how/where to learn to build frames. There are like 7 or 8 professional framebuilders where I live (portland, or) and I know several of them, and have asked about learning and they were like 'I'd love to, but..."
I can't afford to but a custom bike, so I thought it would be awesome to build my own. Anyone got any tips on where/how to learn/practice?
thanks so much

Peter
Is Ashland close enough?

http://www.bikeschool.com/frame.htm
__________________
- Stan
I'm with her.
Scooper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-05, 11:48 PM   #3
Nessism
Senior Member
 
Nessism's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Torrance, CA
Bikes: Homebuilt steel
Posts: 2,332
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The number one place to gleen information is the Framebuilders mail list. Read, read, read...and use the search function to find answers to your questions - don't just ask "how do I get started" questions without first researching on your own.

Some good sources of information:

http://www.henryjames.com/patman.html
http://www.frameforum.net/forum2/index.php?
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/framebuild.htm
http://www.phred.org/mailman/listinfo/framebuilders
__________________
Becareful buying/selling bike parts on-line. I learned the hard way. :(

Good/Bad Trader Listing
Nessism is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-05, 11:19 AM   #4
aadhils
Bike Junkie
 
aadhils's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Bikes: Orange Brompton M3L; Milwaukee Bicycle Co. Fixie (Eddy Orange)
Posts: 1,590
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think I'm gonna really like this frame building forum...

edit: Hey Scooper, Know any such classes near the San Jose/Santa Clara area?...

Last edited by aadhils; 12-07-05 at 11:20 AM. Reason: spelling
aadhils is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-05, 12:31 PM   #5
Scooper
Decrepit Member
 
Scooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Francisco California
Bikes: Waterford 953 RS-22
Posts: 10,136
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by aadhils
edit: Hey Scooper, Know any such classes near the San Jose/Santa Clara area?...
Regrettably, no. However, some of the exhibitors at the March 3-5 North American Hand Made Bicycle Show at the San Jose Convention Center might know of local classes.

I plan on attending.
__________________
- Stan
I'm with her.
Scooper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-05, 12:34 PM   #6
aadhils
Bike Junkie
 
aadhils's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Bikes: Orange Brompton M3L; Milwaukee Bicycle Co. Fixie (Eddy Orange)
Posts: 1,590
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooper
Regrettably, no. However, some of the exhibitors at the March 3-5 North American Hand Made Bicycle Show at the San Jose Convention Center might know of local classes.

I plan on attending.
That's gonna be exiting. I'll be ther too...
aadhils is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-05, 07:35 PM   #7
MattP.
Obeying Gravity
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bellingham, WA
Bikes:
Posts: 2,962
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooper
Is Ashland close enough?

http://www.bikeschool.com/frame.htm
I second UBI. I haven't taken framebuiding classes there but I've took a mechanics class and will take another in June.

Awesome place
MattP. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-05, 04:47 PM   #8
paloewi
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Tokyo
Bikes:
Posts: 35
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooper
Is Ashland close enough?

http://www.bikeschool.com/frame.htm
I've looked at UBI, but it doesn't work out so well. Ashland is like 5 hours away by car, and the classes cost about 2000+ dollars. Also, major conflictions with high school. Any other ideas?

thanks a heap

Peter
paloewi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-05, 10:15 AM   #9
Blazinall91
Show Me What'cha got
 
Blazinall91's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: O'Fallon, Misery
Bikes: old school Giant Attraction MTB (where it all started),old school Schwinn High Plains MTB (XC and long ride duty), Mosh DJ3 (BMX basher), and Trek Bruiser 1 (freeride and full of mods and still growing)
Posts: 1,225
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I know research before asking is a way to make myself better off, but i'm going to ask, as most frames dealt with in do-it-yourself frame sites are simplistic mountain bikes or road bikes. I want to make my own freeride full suspension bike, with somewhere around 6"-7" of rear travel. I'm not too concerned with having a design that's profoundly groundbreaking, i'm more thinking about going with an existing design and modifying it to my liking,and going with that. It just seems that if i pulled it off, the satisfaction of having a self built bike would be amazing. I want to go chromoly on it as well.
Blazinall91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-05, 11:26 AM   #10
platypus
Style-challenged
 
platypus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: San Jose, CA
Bikes: Colnago C-50 Extreme Power, Bianchi Pista, Somec single-speed
Posts: 918
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blazinall91
I know research before asking is a way to make myself better off, but i'm going to ask, as most frames dealt with in do-it-yourself frame sites are simplistic mountain bikes or road bikes. I want to make my own freeride full suspension bike, with somewhere around 6"-7" of rear travel. I'm not too concerned with having a design that's profoundly groundbreaking, i'm more thinking about going with an existing design and modifying it to my liking,and going with that. It just seems that if i pulled it off, the satisfaction of having a self built bike would be amazing. I want to go chromoly on it as well.
There are no questions contained in that post.
platypus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-05, 03:33 PM   #11
Blazinall91
Show Me What'cha got
 
Blazinall91's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: O'Fallon, Misery
Bikes: old school Giant Attraction MTB (where it all started),old school Schwinn High Plains MTB (XC and long ride duty), Mosh DJ3 (BMX basher), and Trek Bruiser 1 (freeride and full of mods and still growing)
Posts: 1,225
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i was more looking for advice or input. Anyone that has made something similar, any experience with something besides simple single speed-ish or road frames. although those are nice, they're not my bag
Blazinall91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-05, 08:41 PM   #12
MattP.
Obeying Gravity
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bellingham, WA
Bikes:
Posts: 2,962
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blazinall91
i was more looking for advice or input. Anyone that has made something similar, any experience with something besides simple single speed-ish or road frames. although those are nice, they're not my bag
Make your own thread.
MattP. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-05, 11:19 PM   #13
rlong
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 303
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by paloewi
I've looked at UBI, but it doesn't work out so well. Ashland is like 5 hours away by car, and the classes cost about 2000+ dollars. Also, major conflictions with high school. Any other ideas?

thanks a heap

Peter
Almost all of the professional framebuilders in the US that I've seen respond to this question, have all said UBI was the best. That's where I'm going this summer is I can work it out.

rlong
rlong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-05, 01:14 PM   #14
bellweatherman
Senior Member
 
bellweatherman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Austin
Bikes: Too many to count
Posts: 2,103
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
2 Grand on a framebuilding school is quite a bit of money. It would probably do you some good to take some cheaper welding/brazing course down at your local technical or community college. That would be helpful even if you were to go to a framebuilder's school.

You already know like 8 builders in your area!!! Just get the Paterak manual, get some scrap tubes and start practicing on your own. I know you said that the builders near you are kinda busy, but just do it on your own. If you run into probs, then just ask them for help or get on that framebuilder's listserve someone mentioned. The money you save, maybe you could buy a fixture or buy a pizza for your local builder!

Check out Suzy J's framebuilding tutorial. She is/was an amateur like yourself and totally self-taught. Quite an inspiration to all do-it-your-selfers.

http://www.littlefishbicycles.com/
bellweatherman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-05, 03:31 PM   #15
oknups
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 228
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bellweatherman
2 Grand on a framebuilding school is quite a bit of money. It would probably do you some good to take some cheaper welding/brazing course down at your local technical or community college. That would be helpful even if you were to go to a framebuilder's school.

You already know like 8 builders in your area!!! Just get the Paterak manual, get some scrap tubes and start practicing on your own. I know you said that the builders near you are kinda busy, but just do it on your own. If you run into probs, then just ask them for help or get on that framebuilder's listserve someone mentioned. The money you save, maybe you could buy a fixture or buy a pizza for your local builder!

Check out Suzy J's framebuilding tutorial. She is/was an amateur like yourself and totally self-taught. Quite an inspiration to all do-it-your-selfers.

http://www.littlefishbicycles.com/
One of four failed. I am not knocking her, I admire her. But it is not as easy as it seems.

Archive-URL: http://search.bikelist.org/getmsg.as...10504.0054.eml
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 09:52:18 +1000
From: <Suzy.Jackson@csiro.au>
Subject: [Frame] What to do when a join fails

Hi guys,

After about eight months and 10,000km, I've found a bit of a problem
with my Audax bike. Basically, the join between the bottom bracket
shell and the seat tube is coming apart. I noticed a short crack in the
paint at the lug edge a couple of months ago, and now (after a super
series and a nine day tour) that crack has progressed around the front
of the lug edge and round the other side.

So what's the best plan of attack? I figure at the very least the seat
tube has to come out, as I imagine there's all sorts of oxidation and
rubbish in what's left of the join. I'm guessing I should cut the tube
just past the lug and machine/file out the remains of the tube from the
lug socket, then do the same thing for the seat lug, then clean it all
up and put a new seat tube in... Is this the right sort of approach?

I also checked my first frame, which has only done a few hundred
kilometres in the year or so since I built it, and sure enough, it has
cracks at the bottom bracket shell on both the downtube socket and
seattube socket...

Hmmm... Methinks I need a little more practice doing bottom brackets.

Regards,

Suzy
_______________________________________________

If I remember correctly she ended up cutting it up to find out what went wrong, and posted some pictures. Sure does ride alot 10k in 8 months wow.
oknups is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-05, 04:12 PM   #16
Nessism
Senior Member
 
Nessism's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Torrance, CA
Bikes: Homebuilt steel
Posts: 2,332
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by oknups
One of four failed. I am not knocking her, I admire her. But it is not as easy as it seems.
Learn by making mistakes...well actually...it's not a MISTAKE unless you do it wrong TWO times.

Regarding this subject in general, I've made a wopping total of eight frames so far (self taught for the most part). First several were tested and dissected after about one seasons of use. At this point though, I'm quite confident that the frames are robust, straight, and won't come apart.

Aspiring framebuilders that are good at studying THE MANUAL (Paterek book), reading information on the internet (framebuilders list), and are willing to pratice brazing on their own can get along OK without spending $2k on the class/lodging/travel expenses.

My opinion of course.

Ed
__________________
Becareful buying/selling bike parts on-line. I learned the hard way. :(

Good/Bad Trader Listing
Nessism is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-05, 07:20 PM   #17
bellweatherman
Senior Member
 
bellweatherman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Austin
Bikes: Too many to count
Posts: 2,103
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by oknups
One of four failed. I am not knocking her, I admire her. But it is not as easy as it seems.

Umm, yeah you are knocking her specifically. That mistake she made could've happened to anybody, even somebody that takes a class. You think that the instructor (at any school) has time to watch over each student's brazing of each joint?! No way. Suzy made a boo boo, but learned from it, corrected and repaired her mistake. The point is, it didn't happen because she didn't take a class. It could've happened to anybody. She is still the shiznit when it comes to self taught frambuilding.
bellweatherman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-05, 11:43 PM   #18
oknups
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 228
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bellweatherman
Umm, yeah you are knocking her specifically. That mistake she made could've happened to anybody, even somebody that takes a class. You think that the instructor (at any school) has time to watch over each student's brazing of each joint?! No way. Suzy made a boo boo, but learned from it, corrected and repaired her mistake. The point is, it didn't happen because she didn't take a class. It could've happened to anybody. She is still the shiznit when it comes to self taught frambuilding.
No I am not knocking her. Amazing that you think you have the abiltiy to read minds, and make judgements about my intent.

I used her post mainly because she was the only person, that had the guts to be honest ( that might not be true as I posted that I thought my fork design was questionable in the my second post on this forum.) Also to point out that failures do happen, and failed to mention all was not without hope.

Suzy, nor did I build anything without some prior knowledge, both of us lurked around and asked advice from other people. That is how you learn, ask questions, question the authorities. If you have not already taken the time to search the referenced list with "join failure" as the topic you should. It will be quite informative.

Yes I do think that a school, or an apprenticeship would help prevent mistakes. If you think that you can build a frame without any prior knowledge, well my hat would be off to you. Nobody in this venture is truely "self taught."

We learn from our own mistakes, and should listen to and learn from the people that admit thier own mistakes, that was my intent. If we listnen, ask questions, and learn we are less likely to repeat the mistakes that others have made before us.

Hopefully I have not offended Suzy with this post. If I have offended Suzy, I make my apology public.
Sincerely,
SMP
oknups is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:30 AM.