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Framebuilders Thinking about a custom frame? Lugged vs Fillet Brazed. Different Frame materials? Newvex or Pacenti Lugs? why get a custom Road, Mountain, or Track Frame? Got a question about framebuilding? Lets discuss framebuilding at it's finest.

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Old 12-15-05, 10:00 PM   #1
2002psm
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what does these types of Ti frame mean?

I'm looking at Seven's Alaris and Axiom frames and I don't understand the difference:

Alaris:
Integrity 325
Staight-Gauge Ti 3-2.5

Axiom:
Argen
Double-Butted Ti 3-2.5

Can someone please explain/describe to me what does this mean in laymans terms? pros/cons perhaps?

Thanks for any info.
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Old 12-15-05, 11:24 PM   #2
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I think Straight gauge means an even thickness all the way through, and double butted means thicker material at the ends than at the middle usually done for strength. If I'm wrong then someone correct me...
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Old 12-15-05, 11:57 PM   #3
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3/2.5 designates 3% Aluminium and 2.5% Vanadium alloyed with the Titanium to improve it's mechanical characteristics. The 'Argen' and 'Integrity' are just Sevens' clever brand names, which costs you an extra 20% when it comes time to pay the bill
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Old 12-16-05, 12:41 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aadhils
I think Straight gauge means an even thickness all the way through, and double butted means thicker material at the ends than at the middle usually done for strength. If I'm wrong then someone correct me...

You are right about the thicker on the ends part but the reason is that it saves weight and adds flexablity.

FYI, Seven/Merlin/IF make their butted tubes taking a straight gauge tube and machining the outside of the tube in the center to take material away. End result is a tube with less material which is lighter but not stronger.

Ed
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Old 12-16-05, 08:19 AM   #5
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thanks for your replies guys.

say i'm ~165lbs and i don't race, just club/group rides and few centuries do you think i should settle for just the straight gauge? is there a difference on ride quality?
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Old 12-16-05, 11:53 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Nessism
You are right about the thicker on the ends part but the reason is that it saves weight and adds flexablity.

Ed
Thanks for the correction. I knew I was probably wrong somewhere ...
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Old 12-16-05, 04:37 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2002psm
thanks for your replies guys.

say i'm ~165lbs and i don't race, just club/group rides and few centuries do you think i should settle for just the straight gauge? is there a difference on ride quality?
For someone like you I'd say try to find a Litespeed Classic. It uses straight gauge tubes which are shaped to resist stresses where appropriate. Key thing is the moderate 1-3/8" down tube which is not overly large - good for ride quality.

Hope this helps.
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Old 12-18-05, 12:16 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by 2002psm
thanks for your replies guys.

say i'm ~165lbs and i don't race, just club/group rides and few centuries do you think i should settle for just the straight gauge? is there a difference on ride quality?
hey, I ride a straight gauge 3 Al / 2.5 V Ti bike (Habanero cycles at habcycles.com). It's a great ride. I think it's good enough, unless you're trying to break weight records. Oh and there's more to stiffness than butting, so if that's a factor in your decision, consider other variables in the Ti manufacture as well.
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Old 12-18-05, 04:39 PM   #9
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It's more a matter of price difference rather than ride quality or 'settling' for one over the other. Your average quality straight guage Ti frame is about 2000 bucks, a decent double butted 3/2.5 frame is pushing 3k.

If there was the choice between a new Chinese/Taiwanese Ti frame and a second-hand US made frame, I'd go the second-hand US made frame. Much better value, much better quality, and you're investing in the wealth of Ti framebuilding knowledge that has been developing for the past 25 years. A quick rub with some Scotchbrite or a bead-blast and you've got a frame that's as good as new, in all senses.
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Old 12-21-05, 02:15 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nessism
FYI, Seven/Merlin/IF make their butted tubes taking a straight gauge tube and machining the outside of the tube in the center to take material away. End result is a tube with less material which is lighter but not stronger.

Ed
This kind of butting does save weight, but does not offer the other advantage of real butting - actual realignment of grains of metal to make the metal in the thinner part of the tube matreially stronger.
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Old 12-21-05, 03:51 AM   #11
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Yer quite right there Chuck. Definitely not in the same league as the Reynolds stuff.
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Old 12-21-05, 08:20 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thylacine
It's more a matter of price difference rather than ride quality or 'settling' for one over the other. Your average quality straight guage Ti frame is about 2000 bucks, a decent double butted 3/2.5 frame is pushing 3k.

If there was the choice between a new Chinese/Taiwanese Ti frame and a second-hand US made frame, I'd go the second-hand US made frame. Much better value, much better quality, and you're investing in the wealth of Ti framebuilding knowledge that has been developing for the past 25 years. A quick rub with some Scotchbrite or a bead-blast and you've got a frame that's as good as new, in all senses.
You can pick up a quality built US made TST frame for way less than $2k these days (check out the Colorado Cyclist Douglas Precision and Precision Plus). Every bit the quality of Litespeed for about 1/2 the cost.
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