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  1. #1
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    what does these types of Ti frame mean?

    I'm looking at Seven's Alaris and Axiom frames and I don't understand the difference:

    Alaris:
    Integrity 325
    Staight-Gauge Ti 3-2.5

    Axiom:
    Argen
    Double-Butted Ti 3-2.5

    Can someone please explain/describe to me what does this mean in laymans terms? pros/cons perhaps?

    Thanks for any info.

  2. #2
    Bike Junkie aadhils's Avatar
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    I think Straight gauge means an even thickness all the way through, and double butted means thicker material at the ends than at the middle usually done for strength. If I'm wrong then someone correct me...

  3. #3
    Industry Maven Thylacine's Avatar
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    3/2.5 designates 3% Aluminium and 2.5% Vanadium alloyed with the Titanium to improve it's mechanical characteristics. The 'Argen' and 'Integrity' are just Sevens' clever brand names, which costs you an extra 20% when it comes time to pay the bill
    Have you earned your stripes? <<click here / Questions about custom frames? Chat me! - warwickg71 (AIM/iChat) ThylacineCycles (Skype)

  4. #4
    Senior Member Nessism's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aadhils
    I think Straight gauge means an even thickness all the way through, and double butted means thicker material at the ends than at the middle usually done for strength. If I'm wrong then someone correct me...

    You are right about the thicker on the ends part but the reason is that it saves weight and adds flexablity.

    FYI, Seven/Merlin/IF make their butted tubes taking a straight gauge tube and machining the outside of the tube in the center to take material away. End result is a tube with less material which is lighter but not stronger.

    Ed
    Becareful buying/selling bike parts on-line. I learned the hard way. :(

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  5. #5
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    thanks for your replies guys.

    say i'm ~165lbs and i don't race, just club/group rides and few centuries do you think i should settle for just the straight gauge? is there a difference on ride quality?

  6. #6
    Bike Junkie aadhils's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nessism
    You are right about the thicker on the ends part but the reason is that it saves weight and adds flexablity.

    Ed
    Thanks for the correction. I knew I was probably wrong somewhere ...

  7. #7
    Senior Member Nessism's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2002psm
    thanks for your replies guys.

    say i'm ~165lbs and i don't race, just club/group rides and few centuries do you think i should settle for just the straight gauge? is there a difference on ride quality?
    For someone like you I'd say try to find a Litespeed Classic. It uses straight gauge tubes which are shaped to resist stresses where appropriate. Key thing is the moderate 1-3/8" down tube which is not overly large - good for ride quality.

    Hope this helps.
    Becareful buying/selling bike parts on-line. I learned the hard way. :(

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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2002psm
    thanks for your replies guys.

    say i'm ~165lbs and i don't race, just club/group rides and few centuries do you think i should settle for just the straight gauge? is there a difference on ride quality?
    hey, I ride a straight gauge 3 Al / 2.5 V Ti bike (Habanero cycles at habcycles.com). It's a great ride. I think it's good enough, unless you're trying to break weight records. Oh and there's more to stiffness than butting, so if that's a factor in your decision, consider other variables in the Ti manufacture as well.

  9. #9
    Industry Maven Thylacine's Avatar
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    It's more a matter of price difference rather than ride quality or 'settling' for one over the other. Your average quality straight guage Ti frame is about 2000 bucks, a decent double butted 3/2.5 frame is pushing 3k.

    If there was the choice between a new Chinese/Taiwanese Ti frame and a second-hand US made frame, I'd go the second-hand US made frame. Much better value, much better quality, and you're investing in the wealth of Ti framebuilding knowledge that has been developing for the past 25 years. A quick rub with some Scotchbrite or a bead-blast and you've got a frame that's as good as new, in all senses.
    Have you earned your stripes? <<click here / Questions about custom frames? Chat me! - warwickg71 (AIM/iChat) ThylacineCycles (Skype)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nessism
    FYI, Seven/Merlin/IF make their butted tubes taking a straight gauge tube and machining the outside of the tube in the center to take material away. End result is a tube with less material which is lighter but not stronger.

    Ed
    This kind of butting does save weight, but does not offer the other advantage of real butting - actual realignment of grains of metal to make the metal in the thinner part of the tube matreially stronger.

  11. #11
    Industry Maven Thylacine's Avatar
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    Yer quite right there Chuck. Definitely not in the same league as the Reynolds stuff.
    Have you earned your stripes? <<click here / Questions about custom frames? Chat me! - warwickg71 (AIM/iChat) ThylacineCycles (Skype)

  12. #12
    Senior Member Nessism's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thylacine
    It's more a matter of price difference rather than ride quality or 'settling' for one over the other. Your average quality straight guage Ti frame is about 2000 bucks, a decent double butted 3/2.5 frame is pushing 3k.

    If there was the choice between a new Chinese/Taiwanese Ti frame and a second-hand US made frame, I'd go the second-hand US made frame. Much better value, much better quality, and you're investing in the wealth of Ti framebuilding knowledge that has been developing for the past 25 years. A quick rub with some Scotchbrite or a bead-blast and you've got a frame that's as good as new, in all senses.
    You can pick up a quality built US made TST frame for way less than $2k these days (check out the Colorado Cyclist Douglas Precision and Precision Plus). Every bit the quality of Litespeed for about 1/2 the cost.
    Becareful buying/selling bike parts on-line. I learned the hard way. :(

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