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Framebuilders Thinking about a custom frame? Lugged vs Fillet Brazed. Different Frame materials? Newvex or Pacenti Lugs? why get a custom Road, Mountain, or Track Frame? Got a question about framebuilding? Lets discuss framebuilding at it's finest.

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Old 03-01-06, 09:49 PM   #1
KendallF
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tubeset suggestions?

The "compact geometry" thread got me thinking. I am about to buy the tubeset for my first frame, and thought I'd troll for suggestions on tubesets. This will be my first "scratch built" frame, TIG welded steel, compact geometry, a 54 cm or so size. My goals are for the frame to be inexpensive (in case I screw anything up, and because I'm going to race on it), reasonably light, and stiff (I weigh 192 lbs).

I have some of the components for the bike; it'll use a carbon fork w/1" crmo steerer, mostly Ultegra parts (derailleurs/shifters/brakes/cranks). I have some reasonably light wheels; it needs an inexpensive stem and seatpost, and I should have enough parts to build my "race mutt".

I would like for it to come in under 20 lbs. Is that a reasonable goal for my less-than-exotic parts and a reasonably priced tubeset? Suggestions? I'm talking $100-150 here, if possible. I've previously bought some stuff from Nova and will probably go there for the tubes.
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Old 03-02-06, 06:57 AM   #2
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light, cheap or stiff. Pick two
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Old 03-02-06, 12:06 PM   #3
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While probably true, that was less than useful.

I would like to hear some weights for built-up bikes; I know 17-18 lb bikes have been built with the newer tube sets, but I'd like to hear what a "typical" weight is with similar components and say, Zona tubing.
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Old 03-04-06, 12:49 PM   #4
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Call some of the sources you are considering for tubesets. Henry James is a reputable dealer in S. CA. At 190 lbs, a lightweight frame may not be your most durable racing solution.
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Old 03-04-06, 01:54 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildwood
Call some of the sources you are considering for tubesets. Henry James is a reputable dealer in S. CA. At 190 lbs, a lightweight frame may not be your most durable racing solution.
Go to www.Novacycles.com. They sell to hobbists. Also, there is a tome which covers bike building by Tim Paternak (see http://www.henryjames.com/patman.html). You need to educate yourself on the trade offs of material then make a decision. Hope this helps.
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Old 03-04-06, 04:35 PM   #6
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Wildwood,

I'm doing exactly that next week; I have talked to Lon at Nova at length and I've been trying to get Bringheli on the phone.

Deanster04,

I've read the tubeset recommendations on Henry James' site, as well as most of the metallurgical and mechanical properties info I can find online. Currently, I am leaning toward a butted but not super thin choice like the Dedacciai 858 tubeset (.8/.5/.8) that Nova offers. Just thought I might get some info from a few people who've "been there, done that", as well as the suppliers.
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Old 03-06-06, 04:38 PM   #7
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I'm also in the same boat. Going to be building my first frame and I know tubing selection is critical. 170 lbs 54cm track frame for NYC streets is the plan
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Old 03-06-06, 05:59 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KendallF
Wildwood,

I'm doing exactly that next week; I have talked to Lon at Nova at length and I've been trying to get Bringheli on the phone.

Deanster04,

I've read the tubeset recommendations on Henry James' site, as well as most of the metallurgical and mechanical properties info I can find online. Currently, I am leaning toward a butted but not super thin choice like the Dedacciai 858 tubeset (.8/.5/.8) that Nova offers. Just thought I might get some info from a few people who've "been there, done that", as well as the suppliers.

Bringheli is way cheaper than Nova. Regarding the tubing, that .8/.5/.8 tubeset is called ZeroUno or Com12.5. It's a nice tubeset but too thin for a 190 lb'er in my opinon. I have a similar frame and can get derailleur rub at will, and I'm 165 lbs. I'd suggest using ZeroTre for the down tube and chain stays, that should firm up the bottom bracket quite a bit, and ZeroUno for everything else.

Good luck.

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Old 03-06-06, 07:53 PM   #9
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Stiffness is a result of tubing diameter, not wall thickness though. If you're building your first frame, wall thickness is an issue because it gives you a margin of error if you fry the tubes. Thats the reason to go thicker walled.
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Old 03-06-06, 08:13 PM   #10
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Get in line for Bringheli. Must be a busy time.
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Old 03-07-06, 01:11 PM   #11
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I talked to Bringheli today, and sent him an email to order a Zero (Sat 14.5?) tubeset. I understand it should be stiffer than the Zero Uno set (extra heat treat). Any input regarding this choice, Ed, Thylacine?

I am a new to bike frame building but I'm an experienced welder and have done a lot of thin tubing work (headers, intercooler piping), so I don't anticipate too much difficulty welding it up.

As far as stiffness in the bottom bracket area, I have seen a few people putting gussets on their frames at the bottom bracket area. I do this on race car stuff frequently; any reason not to consider it here?
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Old 03-07-06, 02:25 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thylacine
Stiffness is a result of tubing diameter, not wall thickness though.
Diameter has a greater influence than thickness, but thickness most certainly DOES affect stiffness. Why do you think manufacturers make different tubesets, with different thicknesses? At any rate, look up something called the "area moment of inertia". This is a shape factor that affects stiffness, you will see from the equation that thickness matters.
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Old 03-07-06, 02:28 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KendallF
I talked to Bringheli today, and sent him an email to order a Zero (Sat 14.5?) tubeset. I understand it should be stiffer than the Zero Uno set (extra heat treat). Any input regarding this choice, Ed, Thylacine?

I am a new to bike frame building but I'm an experienced welder and have done a lot of thin tubing work (headers, intercooler piping), so I don't anticipate too much difficulty welding it up.

As far as stiffness in the bottom bracket area, I have seen a few people putting gussets on their frames at the bottom bracket area. I do this on race car stuff frequently; any reason not to consider it here?
The stiffness of the metal is not effected by heat treatment, only the shape factor. Given this, Zero tubing is MORE flexable than the others because it's thinner. Zero is so thin you are not going to be able to do much cold setting to straighten the frame after welding so make sure you keep it straight during the build.
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Old 03-07-06, 05:00 PM   #14
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Which is stiffer - a 35 tube at 0.7/0.5/0.7, or a 31.8 tube at 0.8/0.6/0.8? I'm not a Physicist Nessism, but if you want a stiffer frame, I know which tube I'd select, and it isn't the latter.

I wouldn't worry about gussets, Kendall. Most are poorly designed and actually do the opposite that they're supposed to do and are pretty unnecessary on the road bike, even if you are 190lbs.
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Old 03-08-06, 12:12 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thylacine
Which is stiffer - a 35 tube at 0.7/0.5/0.7, or a 31.8 tube at 0.8/0.6/0.8? I'm not a Physicist Nessism, but if you want a stiffer frame, I know which tube I'd select, and it isn't the latter.

I wouldn't worry about gussets, Kendall. Most are poorly designed and actually do the opposite that they're supposed to do and are pretty unnecessary on the road bike, even if you are 190lbs.
The 35mm tube will be stiffer, no doubt. But if both tubes were the same diameter, the thicker one would be stiffer.
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