Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 15 of 15
  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Orange Park, FL
    My Bikes
    Ever changing..as of 2-24-09: 2003 Giant TCR Team Once, Sampson titanium, 1992 Paramount Series 3, 2003 Cervelo P3, 70s Raleigh Record fixed gear, 70s Fuji SL-12 commuter, mid 90s Klein MTB. Plus two or three frames lurking, plus 5 wife/kids rides
    Posts
    1,340
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    tubeset suggestions?

    The "compact geometry" thread got me thinking. I am about to buy the tubeset for my first frame, and thought I'd troll for suggestions on tubesets. This will be my first "scratch built" frame, TIG welded steel, compact geometry, a 54 cm or so size. My goals are for the frame to be inexpensive (in case I screw anything up, and because I'm going to race on it), reasonably light, and stiff (I weigh 192 lbs).

    I have some of the components for the bike; it'll use a carbon fork w/1" crmo steerer, mostly Ultegra parts (derailleurs/shifters/brakes/cranks). I have some reasonably light wheels; it needs an inexpensive stem and seatpost, and I should have enough parts to build my "race mutt".

    I would like for it to come in under 20 lbs. Is that a reasonable goal for my less-than-exotic parts and a reasonably priced tubeset? Suggestions? I'm talking $100-150 here, if possible. I've previously bought some stuff from Nova and will probably go there for the tubes.

  2. #2
    Older I get, Better I was velonomad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Schenectady NY & Wilmington NC
    My Bikes
    a bunch of them, most made by me, a couple made by others
    Posts
    1,630
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    light, cheap or stiff. Pick two

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Orange Park, FL
    My Bikes
    Ever changing..as of 2-24-09: 2003 Giant TCR Team Once, Sampson titanium, 1992 Paramount Series 3, 2003 Cervelo P3, 70s Raleigh Record fixed gear, 70s Fuji SL-12 commuter, mid 90s Klein MTB. Plus two or three frames lurking, plus 5 wife/kids rides
    Posts
    1,340
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    While probably true, that was less than useful.

    I would like to hear some weights for built-up bikes; I know 17-18 lb bikes have been built with the newer tube sets, but I'd like to hear what a "typical" weight is with similar components and say, Zona tubing.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Wildwood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Seattle area
    Posts
    2,387
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Call some of the sources you are considering for tubesets. Henry James is a reputable dealer in S. CA. At 190 lbs, a lightweight frame may not be your most durable racing solution.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Deanster04's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Boulder, Colorado
    My Bikes
    Cinelli Supercoursa 69, Ritchey Breakaway Cross, Mondonico Diamond Extra 05, Coors Light Greg Lemond (built by Scapin) 88, Scapin MTB, Stumpjumper 83, Specialized Stumpjumper M4, Lemond Poprad 2001
    Posts
    1,366
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildwood
    Call some of the sources you are considering for tubesets. Henry James is a reputable dealer in S. CA. At 190 lbs, a lightweight frame may not be your most durable racing solution.
    Go to www.Novacycles.com. They sell to hobbists. Also, there is a tome which covers bike building by Tim Paternak (see http://www.henryjames.com/patman.html). You need to educate yourself on the trade offs of material then make a decision. Hope this helps.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Orange Park, FL
    My Bikes
    Ever changing..as of 2-24-09: 2003 Giant TCR Team Once, Sampson titanium, 1992 Paramount Series 3, 2003 Cervelo P3, 70s Raleigh Record fixed gear, 70s Fuji SL-12 commuter, mid 90s Klein MTB. Plus two or three frames lurking, plus 5 wife/kids rides
    Posts
    1,340
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Wildwood,

    I'm doing exactly that next week; I have talked to Lon at Nova at length and I've been trying to get Bringheli on the phone.

    Deanster04,

    I've read the tubeset recommendations on Henry James' site, as well as most of the metallurgical and mechanical properties info I can find online. Currently, I am leaning toward a butted but not super thin choice like the Dedacciai 858 tubeset (.8/.5/.8) that Nova offers. Just thought I might get some info from a few people who've "been there, done that", as well as the suppliers.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    311
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'm also in the same boat. Going to be building my first frame and I know tubing selection is critical. 170 lbs 54cm track frame for NYC streets is the plan

  8. #8
    Senior Member Nessism's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Torrance, CA
    My Bikes
    Homebuilt steel
    Posts
    2,324
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by KendallF
    Wildwood,

    I'm doing exactly that next week; I have talked to Lon at Nova at length and I've been trying to get Bringheli on the phone.

    Deanster04,

    I've read the tubeset recommendations on Henry James' site, as well as most of the metallurgical and mechanical properties info I can find online. Currently, I am leaning toward a butted but not super thin choice like the Dedacciai 858 tubeset (.8/.5/.8) that Nova offers. Just thought I might get some info from a few people who've "been there, done that", as well as the suppliers.

    Bringheli is way cheaper than Nova. Regarding the tubing, that .8/.5/.8 tubeset is called ZeroUno or Com12.5. It's a nice tubeset but too thin for a 190 lb'er in my opinon. I have a similar frame and can get derailleur rub at will, and I'm 165 lbs. I'd suggest using ZeroTre for the down tube and chain stays, that should firm up the bottom bracket quite a bit, and ZeroUno for everything else.

    Good luck.

    Ed
    Becareful buying/selling bike parts on-line. I learned the hard way. :(

    Good/Bad Trader Listing

  9. #9
    Industry Maven Thylacine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Wherever good bikes are sold
    My Bikes
    Thylacines...only Thylacines.
    Posts
    2,936
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Stiffness is a result of tubing diameter, not wall thickness though. If you're building your first frame, wall thickness is an issue because it gives you a margin of error if you fry the tubes. Thats the reason to go thicker walled.
    Have you earned your stripes? <<click here / Questions about custom frames? Chat me! - warwickg71 (AIM/iChat) ThylacineCycles (Skype)

  10. #10
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    5,117
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Get in line for Bringheli. Must be a busy time.

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Orange Park, FL
    My Bikes
    Ever changing..as of 2-24-09: 2003 Giant TCR Team Once, Sampson titanium, 1992 Paramount Series 3, 2003 Cervelo P3, 70s Raleigh Record fixed gear, 70s Fuji SL-12 commuter, mid 90s Klein MTB. Plus two or three frames lurking, plus 5 wife/kids rides
    Posts
    1,340
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I talked to Bringheli today, and sent him an email to order a Zero (Sat 14.5?) tubeset. I understand it should be stiffer than the Zero Uno set (extra heat treat). Any input regarding this choice, Ed, Thylacine?

    I am a new to bike frame building but I'm an experienced welder and have done a lot of thin tubing work (headers, intercooler piping), so I don't anticipate too much difficulty welding it up.

    As far as stiffness in the bottom bracket area, I have seen a few people putting gussets on their frames at the bottom bracket area. I do this on race car stuff frequently; any reason not to consider it here?

  12. #12
    Senior Member Nessism's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Torrance, CA
    My Bikes
    Homebuilt steel
    Posts
    2,324
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Thylacine
    Stiffness is a result of tubing diameter, not wall thickness though.
    Diameter has a greater influence than thickness, but thickness most certainly DOES affect stiffness. Why do you think manufacturers make different tubesets, with different thicknesses? At any rate, look up something called the "area moment of inertia". This is a shape factor that affects stiffness, you will see from the equation that thickness matters.
    Becareful buying/selling bike parts on-line. I learned the hard way. :(

    Good/Bad Trader Listing

  13. #13
    Senior Member Nessism's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Torrance, CA
    My Bikes
    Homebuilt steel
    Posts
    2,324
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by KendallF
    I talked to Bringheli today, and sent him an email to order a Zero (Sat 14.5?) tubeset. I understand it should be stiffer than the Zero Uno set (extra heat treat). Any input regarding this choice, Ed, Thylacine?

    I am a new to bike frame building but I'm an experienced welder and have done a lot of thin tubing work (headers, intercooler piping), so I don't anticipate too much difficulty welding it up.

    As far as stiffness in the bottom bracket area, I have seen a few people putting gussets on their frames at the bottom bracket area. I do this on race car stuff frequently; any reason not to consider it here?
    The stiffness of the metal is not effected by heat treatment, only the shape factor. Given this, Zero tubing is MORE flexable than the others because it's thinner. Zero is so thin you are not going to be able to do much cold setting to straighten the frame after welding so make sure you keep it straight during the build.
    Becareful buying/selling bike parts on-line. I learned the hard way. :(

    Good/Bad Trader Listing

  14. #14
    Industry Maven Thylacine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Wherever good bikes are sold
    My Bikes
    Thylacines...only Thylacines.
    Posts
    2,936
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Which is stiffer - a 35 tube at 0.7/0.5/0.7, or a 31.8 tube at 0.8/0.6/0.8? I'm not a Physicist Nessism, but if you want a stiffer frame, I know which tube I'd select, and it isn't the latter.

    I wouldn't worry about gussets, Kendall. Most are poorly designed and actually do the opposite that they're supposed to do and are pretty unnecessary on the road bike, even if you are 190lbs.
    Have you earned your stripes? <<click here / Questions about custom frames? Chat me! - warwickg71 (AIM/iChat) ThylacineCycles (Skype)

  15. #15
    Senior Member Nessism's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Torrance, CA
    My Bikes
    Homebuilt steel
    Posts
    2,324
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Thylacine
    Which is stiffer - a 35 tube at 0.7/0.5/0.7, or a 31.8 tube at 0.8/0.6/0.8? I'm not a Physicist Nessism, but if you want a stiffer frame, I know which tube I'd select, and it isn't the latter.

    I wouldn't worry about gussets, Kendall. Most are poorly designed and actually do the opposite that they're supposed to do and are pretty unnecessary on the road bike, even if you are 190lbs.
    The 35mm tube will be stiffer, no doubt. But if both tubes were the same diameter, the thicker one would be stiffer.
    Becareful buying/selling bike parts on-line. I learned the hard way. :(

    Good/Bad Trader Listing

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •