Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Framebuilders Thinking about a custom frame? Lugged vs Fillet Brazed. Different Frame materials? Newvex or Pacenti Lugs? why get a custom Road, Mountain, or Track Frame? Got a question about framebuilding? Lets discuss framebuilding at it's finest.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-10-06, 04:07 AM   #1
nyubie
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Indonesia
Bikes:
Posts: 16
Full Sus from Custom Builder

Hi All,

Just wondering, why it's only limited number of Frame Builder do custom full suspension frame? I know some small company do that, like Seven cycles etc but not individual one-man builder. Is it related to patents on the geometry? Or is it very difficult to fabricate by manual method?

Thanks
nyubie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-06, 06:00 AM   #2
MichaelW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: England
Bikes:
Posts: 12,920
Maybe the R&D effort of getting the suspension just right are too much for a one-off.
People fabricate complex machines such as recumbents and trikes.
MichaelW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-06, 03:56 PM   #3
Ignatz
Shut up and ride
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 22
There are some small and one person shops making full suspension frames; Inglis, Curtlo, Sycip, etc. They buy rear "triangles" from larger manufacturers and make custom front triangles. I'd imagine it's a matter of not having the machining resources to make the swingarms.
Ignatz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-06, 10:58 PM   #4
Thylacine
Industry Maven
 
Thylacine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Wherever good bikes are sold
Bikes: Thylacines...only Thylacines.
Posts: 2,936
Making a frame by joining a few off-the-shelf parts and tubes are one thing. Making a full suspension frame where you have to make EVERYTHING except the tubing youself (including the jigs to hold eveything together) is a whole other kettle of fish.

Basically, very few guys have the resources or knowhow.

I started Thylacine Cycles with an FS bike.....currently evaluating a few ideas for a new one....we'll see what happens. Doing FS bikes is 20 times harder than hardtails, and I ain't exaggerating.
Thylacine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-06, 10:26 PM   #5
nyubie
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Indonesia
Bikes:
Posts: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thylacine
Making a frame by joining a few off-the-shelf parts and tubes are one thing. Making a full suspension frame where you have to make EVERYTHING except the tubing youself (including the jigs to hold eveything together) is a whole other kettle of fish.

Basically, very few guys have the resources or knowhow.

I started Thylacine Cycles with an FS bike.....currently evaluating a few ideas for a new one....we'll see what happens. Doing FS bikes is 20 times harder than hardtails, and I ain't exaggerating.
Thanks Thylacine,

I visited your website and impressed with the design I saw there.

CMIIW, but because most of the frame builders do on steel tubes, I guess the difficulties lies on fabricating (CNC, etc) of yokes, rocker arms of pivots and links. Steel is harder than Alu when you CNC those bits and pieces.

I remember small company producing steel full sus but can't remember their website. They have DH frame as well as XC. I'll post the link if my search hit the link.
nyubie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-06, 02:48 AM   #6
Thylacine
Industry Maven
 
Thylacine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Wherever good bikes are sold
Bikes: Thylacines...only Thylacines.
Posts: 2,936
There are ways around that, you just have to stop thinking about how you'd accomplish something in Aluminium and start thinking in 'Steel', so to speak.

Theres a few people doing some form of steel in their FS bikes - Vicious, Sycip, Balfa, Brooklyn Machine Works, Ted Wojik (sp)....I'm sure there are others.
Thylacine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-06, 04:21 AM   #7
tomacropod
ot.net slave
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Canberra, Australia
Bikes: Salsa mtb * 3, Intense mtb * 1, Abeni SS rd * 1, Salsa road/touring * 2, Trek Damn one * 1, Vintage/projects * many
Posts: 571
is Ethos bicycles in Canberra still alive Warwick? I believe he was an engineering graduate and had a very clever design. Super efficient rear suspension for XC >>> DH. Aluminium frames.

Perhaps I should know, I live in Canberra...

edit: Google knows:

http://www.ethosbicycles.com/ethosbicycles_about.html

he lives in my area too by the looks of it...

- Joel
tomacropod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-06, 08:14 PM   #8
Thylacine
Industry Maven
 
Thylacine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Wherever good bikes are sold
Bikes: Thylacines...only Thylacines.
Posts: 2,936
Not sure about those guys. The ads are still in AMB, so I'm guessing they're still around. Last time I spoke to them was at the 2002 BITS Show where they were showing a beefier looking bike, but I wasn't sure how the bike differed from any other four-bar bike out there.
Thylacine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-06, 04:23 AM   #9
tomacropod
ot.net slave
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Canberra, Australia
Bikes: Salsa mtb * 3, Intense mtb * 1, Abeni SS rd * 1, Salsa road/touring * 2, Trek Damn one * 1, Vintage/projects * many
Posts: 571
the left and right lower swingarms (forgive terminology, I don't have any experience with duallies) are different shapes and I think the pivots are in different places as well. The right-hand swingarm's pivot is actually in front of, and above, the BB.

I think the fact that they have been doing that four-bar design for years (whereas production bikes have only been using it to full effect recently) is the reason they have the reputation as great engineers (plural? It's just one guy - it's ALWAYS just one guy despite the plurals on the site ). I'm not sure if that counts for anything though.

- Joel
tomacropod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-06, 05:15 PM   #10
Thylacine
Industry Maven
 
Thylacine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Wherever good bikes are sold
Bikes: Thylacines...only Thylacines.
Posts: 2,936
No, they've just aligned the pivots with the chainline in the middle gear, and the "one up, one down' Chainstays aren't new - my 1994 Mantis had that, and so do the latest lightweight Turners, Ellsworths etc. Neither of these things are amazing engineering feats, which are a good thing. Major feats tend to scare customers off unless they're simple for Joe Mountainbiker to understand, or if not, you better have some good marketing in place.

As to the 'plural' thing, Ethos is actually 2 guys, or was last time I spoke to them. I'm a sole trader and use plural, simply because 1) I'm now married, and 2) No man is an island, and without quality sub contractors, you ain't going nowhere, so it's nice to recognise them. It also helps you punch above your weight, which is always good
Thylacine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-06, 07:47 PM   #11
PaPa
Senior Member
 
PaPa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Idaho
Bikes:
Posts: 493
Although not a custom builder, (to the best of my knowledge) I'm surprised John Castellano's name hasn't appeared yet. From a personal prospective, I favor intelligent passive - but achieving it before the shavings start hitting the floor, is quite another matter.

http://www.castellanodesigns.com/diff.html

Last edited by PaPa; 03-22-06 at 08:00 PM.
PaPa is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:19 PM.