Igneous Faction

Hello Frame-Builders!

I'm currently very interested in learning how to hand-build bicycles. I've been using bicycles for commuting and fun for awhile now and want to get more involved. However, I'm not at all competetive; so racing is kind out of the question. I'm a member of the local bicycle library and have a pretty general grasp of bicycle mechanics. So here are my questions:

1. I'm wondering if anyone here has any experience with Koichi Yamaguchi's frame-building course. I'm considering his over UBI's because the class-size is only 3 people and, well, he's closer.
2. If I did go to the Yamaguchi thing, I'd only learn how to fillet braze. With this knowledge, would it be possible for me to learn to braze lugs on my own?
3. If I learn to tig-weld outside of a bicycle specific course, how hard is it to apply that general knowledge to welding bike frames?
4.If you think I'm going about all this wrong, I'd like your ideas on how I could better learn all this stuff. Keeping in mind that I want to have a basic knowledge of most of the joining techniques for steel.

Alright, so that's it. Sorry if there was a post just like this on page 3 or something that I missed. Also, I'd be using these skills to mostly build frames for myself; however, I'd probably want to build some for friends, family, and other interested parties. Anything I should take into account?

Thanks a ton!
-Jay

you

I am also curious about these classes, although I thought Yamaguchi's allowed any sort of brazed construction, not only fillet brazing. I know UBI offers a graduate's week where you pay to come and use their facilities, which seems pretty rockin.'

Cyclist0094

Liability Insurance? Get it or E-Richie will come in here and go medieval on yo azz!

potus

I learned to tig weld at a local vo-tech and later went on to weld a couple of frames. no complaints, tig welding is tig welding, but keep in mind that the really nice welds you see on the high end frames, example: moots, are the creme de la creme of the welding world, not just bicycles. it takes years of experience and practice to get that good. I used to weld at a place where every inch of weld was UL inspected. the welds that passed inspection for the most part were no where near as pretty as some of the stuff you see in the bicycle industry. my point? well, vo-tech will teach you how to weld, practice will get you to the point of being able to weld a bicycle frame that is structurally sound and perfectly safe to ride, but don't expect the perfect stack-o-dimes right off the bat. that'll take a little more practice... to say the least.

e-RICHIE

hey - i just got that.
let's lunch, eh.

Cyclist0094

LOL, next time I come through Chester, Pattaconk bar and grill still there?

e-RICHIE

oh-my-effin-gawd.
are you a stalker, or do we know each other?

Cyclist0094

Yeah right I have nothing better to do than drive 2.5 hrs to Chester CT to stalk somebody because they sold me a few frame lugs....... The lugs were very good to work with but not enough to want a "Brokeback Mountain" moment

Untill 2004 I used to part own a vacation home in Old Saybrook on the north cove and rode through Chester often.

NoReg

With an unlimited budget, I say take all the courses, buy all the tools, etc... For myself I normally buy tools and self instruct, it works well, and is a thousand times easier now that we have all this internet stuff to fall back on. I also find it's much easier to learn a craft by oneself if one has some base to start with. A lot of skills are the same in different crafts, for instance, welding, grinding and sharpening. If you want to self instruct, I would check out some simple projects, like racks where you can learn to fillet braze of weld on something cheap, one racks a standard hardware store torchis like an OA rig because of the size of the pieces.

Welding is transferable, a lot of the basic skill like learning to strike a spark are the same, generally. Working tubing takes quite a while to do after you have successfully learned to weld on the flat. Just get some cheap aircraft tubbing and weld away. Welding is the hardest joinery skill to learn, by a huge factor. The first brass fillet I made looked aweful, but it was plenty strong, a huge penalty in excess material and filing and grinding. For quite a while with TIG you won't get anything useable at all or will just blow holes in things. However welding is massively useful outside the little world of frame building, so I am glad I struggled through the learning curve. A lot of the bad stuff people say about welding is total crap. But it's all true when you are learning you will overheat, or underpenetrate, etc... Expert work is ideal, but it takes a while, and you really need your own machine to keep your hand in or get it up to grade.

Igneous Faction

Thanks for the advice.